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Arc’teryx Alpha FL rucksack or?

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monsoon 06 Nov 2018

Has anyone used the Arc’teryx Alpha FL 30 for cragging, winter and Alpine stuff? Wondering how usable it is, if that makes sense. Any other good options?

 galpinos 06 Nov 2018
In reply to monsoon:

It’s worth noting that it’s a 23L sac that can extend to 30L, i.e. it’s quite small.....

In reply to monsoon:

Summiteer Crag Rocket 30

I came across this pack via a link on here, very impressed by how it looks online. Very similar in style to Alpha FL30.

Stuart

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 Neil Pratt 06 Nov 2018
In reply to monsoon:

Patagonia Ascentionist comes in 30l variant, or the ME Tupilak?

 tehmarks 06 Nov 2018
In reply to monsoon:

Have used it for alpine (summer and ski touring), have dragged it to the crag many a time and will be using it extensively for winter this year.

It does exactly what it says on the tin. It's absolutely bombproof considering the weight, doesn't have any frills and is a joy to use and carry. The only thing it doesn't do well at all is carry skis - unsurprisingly - but even then it can be coerced to do so relatively easily. I'd happily buy another again, over the Ascensionist or Tupilak.

 planetmarshall 07 Nov 2018
In reply to monsoon:

> Has anyone used the Arc’teryx Alpha FL 30 for cragging, winter and Alpine stuff? Wondering how usable it is, if that makes sense.

Well... not really. I mean, of course it's ''useable" - that is what it's designed for, after all. I use it for Alpine and Scottish Winter, have done for two years and will do again this year. It's basic, though - no bells and whistles, no padding.

 

 richgac 07 Nov 2018
In reply to monsoon:

It gets my vote for winter use.  If you like simplicity and the lack of useless straps, buckles and pockets then it'll probably work for you.  It's surprisingly comfortable considering the thin padding and well designed for climbing with it on (it sits high and is tapered at the base so it doesn't interfere with a harness).  You'll probably end up carrying rope and helmet on the outside though which not everyone likes.

 LucaC 07 Nov 2018
In reply to monsoon:

I have the 30 and the 45l versions. I find the 30 too small for Scottish winter. It's ok for the walk in the morning, when its been neatly packed in the warm and dry the night before, but when you get to the top and just want to stuff everything away and get down, then it feels far too small and awkward.

The 45 compresses down to the same size as some of my other 30l sacks once you've taken all the gear out, and the shape makes it unobtrusive to climb with. It's then dead easy to manhandle a frozen rope into the bottom and everything else on top without fighting to squeeze everything else in. 

For my money; the 45 is a better all around pack for winter and cragging, the 30l is great for summer day routes.   

 Mattia 07 Nov 2018
In reply to monsoon:

I picked up the 30l version at a good price and really like it. However, I concur with LucaC about the size. I definitely wouldn't buy the 30l version again, but rather the larger 45l. 

Having said that, I use the 30l all the time when cragging, summer alpine routes, hiking etc. It feels neat, tough and light. 

I've used it (made it work) in Scottish winter but you have to be super organised with how you pack it and half the stuff ends up on the outside (ice axe, crampons, rope).

So yes, great bag but 30l is too small for my liking.

 Si Withington 07 Nov 2018
In reply to monsoon:

FWIW I've just tested one and I think it's really well designed. Great for fast and light trips I'd say, fine for multi-pitch cragging. I'd say it'll be 'okay' in winter but it's a rope on the outside job. Definitely on the small side of 30L though. Awesome for Alpine days for sure.

PS: am selling one in another post as I've got too many packs as it is.

Post edited at 09:56
 planetmarshall 07 Nov 2018
In reply to Si Withington:

> I'd say it'll be 'okay' in winter but it's a rope on the outside job. Definitely on the small side of 30L though.

Well it will depend on the individual. When I started Winter Climbing I used a 50L pack. Then 40L, then 30L as I became more used to what I required for what conditions and I worked out a system. I usually have crampons and helmet on the outside but I've never had any problem getting ropes and all other gear in the pack for, and I'm far from "super-organized".

1
In reply to monsoon:

I've tested out the Alpha FL, the Patagonia Ascensionist and the ME Tupilak, and have found the Patagonia pack to be the most user friendly- It's equally simple and has a pocket on top that actually works- where the other two have pockets that don't really work once the bag is full. Weight wise, there's nothing much between them all. All three stand up to a battering, and are the best on the market, but the Patagonia sneaks ahead for practical usability.

Cheers

Will

In reply to monsoon:

I’ve used both the 45 and the 30 loads.

I would say the FL30 is too small for general cragging. Good for days on mountain crags when you’ve stripped everything down to the minimum.

The 45 litre (in reality 30 litre) is a good all round sack. I’ve used it for everything from multi day ski tours, to long alpine routes, to loads of days out in Scotland. As well as general cragging.

The 30 litre (in reality 20ish) is great but a lot more specialised. 

I’m sure you could use it for Scottish days out, but I can’t really see what you’re achieving other than pointless, my sack is smaller than yours, willy-waving. 

In short get the 45 it’s a much better all rounder. 

 

 

3
 planetmarshall 07 Nov 2018
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

> I’m sure you could use it for Scottish days out, but I can’t really see what you’re achieving other than pointless, my sack is smaller than yours, willy-waving. 

Then why not use an 80L sack? or 100L? Or maybe it's OK just to prefer carrying a smaller sack that doesn't get in the way, without bizarrely being accused that you're only doing it to stroke your own ego.

Your way is not the only way, or necessarily the best way.

6
 TobyA 07 Nov 2018
In reply to Will_Thomas_Harris:

>  All three stand up to a battering, and are the best on the market, but the Patagonia sneaks ahead for practical usability.

My climbing partner found earlier this year that the frame of his ascentionist pack had worn through the internal pack material - I think he had only had it through last winter. I don't actually know what happened - I said definitely take it back to the shop because it was ridiculously fast wear. I really like all the Patagonia clothes I've had down the years, but are a bit sceptical of that pack design having seen what happened to Simon's. I'm wondering whether that was a freak thing or known problem with them?

 

 galpinos 07 Nov 2018
In reply to Will_Thomas_Harris:

Interesting. I have an Ascentionist 25 and find it rubbish with a rope draped over it, the lid pocket is great unless the pack is quite full, then it’s totally unusable and if there is anything in the lid pocket, it’s a real faff to get anything out of it when clipped to the belay as it keeps flopping into the main compartment. It takes a bit of thinking to pack too as it’s a) small and b) got a soft back so you can end up with a spiked back. Despite all my whinging, Ido like it a lot and it’s great to climb in. I have borrowed a Tupilak and prefer it, I think the Tupilak 37 would be my winter bag of choice. I’ve not tried the Arc’teryx bags, they look the business but I do get annoyed by the naming.

i conced you do a lot more climbing than me though! 

Climbpsyched 07 Nov 2018
In reply to monsoon:

I had the slightly larger version than the 30L. It was light but I didn't rate it at all. Closure system broke quickly and saw this happen to another pack. Also didn't seem to withstand brushes with rock. The quality didn't match the price for me personally.

Replaced it with a Blueice Warthog and although heavier this pack is the bee's knees. 

In reply to planetmarshall:

> Or maybe it's OK just to prefer carrying a smaller sack that doesn't get in the way, without bizarrely being accused that you're only doing it to stroke your own ego.

An emptyish 30 litre sack no more gets in the way than an emptyish 20 litre sack. 

Once on a route all I have in my bag is: a thin belay jacket, Headtorch mitts, spare gloves, map, compass, googles, bothy bag, small first aid kit, and a bit of food/drink. 

I know I can get all of this plus: harness, rack, rope, crampons, lid ect into a 20 litre sack. But I’ll probably end up with the crampons and maybe rope on the outside. This is all well and good on a sunny day in March, but far from ideal when it’s 3 degrees and raining in the north face car park. Also I’d much rather have my crampons on the inside so I can’t loose them. If they do end up on the outside i always tie the straps through a webbing loop. 

Plus when I arrive at the top of a route in the dark and in a storm. I want to chuck everything inside and my bag and get out of there.

 

 

 planetmarshall 08 Nov 2018
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

> An emptyish 30 litre sack no more gets in the way than an emptyish 20 litre sack. 

Well that's obviously not true. A 30 litre sack is larger than a 20 litre sack, emptyish or otherwise. Now you may not notice the difference, but I'm not all that large and I notice. As I said, it is about individual preference.

> Once on a route all I have in my bag is: a thin belay jacket, Headtorch mitts, spare gloves, map, compass, googles, bothy bag, small first aid kit, and a bit of food/drink. 

Great. Good for you. But I have also tried various sizes of rucksack and prefer to use the smallest size I can get away with - again, individual preference.

As for 'willy waving' - of all the things that might concern me on an average Scottish Winter day out, the size of other people's rucksacks is not one of them.

 

1
In reply to planetmarshall:

Before commenting I'll make it clear that I haven't been out Scottish Winter/Alpine climbing in several years, hence my approach is probably quite old-school.

For many years I used the Crux AK47-X, which despite being quite a large pack was pretty stripped back, minimalist, and light (for the size). It was also exceptionally comfortable to carry, hence nice to use, with everything fitting within the pack.  I would then bring an Exped Drypack, which was probably somewhere in/around the 15L mark, weighing in at the 200ish gram mark, that I would carry up the route with me with all of the essentials (i.e. gloves, belay jacket, food, and - maybe - flask).

Whilst I have played around with lighter systems (i.e. smaller packs) I must say I didn't find them as pleasant to use. In my experience they tended to be fine whilst on the route, but on the approach I just found them annoying and uncomfortable. In the Alps this was less of a problem, because approaches are often quite insignificant (courtesy of the lifts), or - even when they are longer - the fact that you're tooled/roped up and on a glacier from the moment you get out the bin means there's a lot less in your pack from the word go anyway. In Scotland this isn't the case, as you've often got to trudge for (most likely) several hours in the rain/wind/snow and in this set of circumstances I just found it nicer + more enjoyable (two words infrequently associated with the genre of Scottish Winter) to carry a bag that could hold everything within it and do so comfortably.

Whilst Tom's wording is classically Tom I agree with most of what he's saying. I think I'd get massively frustrated with the Arc’teryx Alpha FL 30 simply because whilst it's a lovely pack, it's tiny. I reckon I could get away with it in the Alps, but for Scottish Winter - or even summer cragging - I just can't see it happening. I don't however think there's some weird 'willy waving' ego thing going on between large pack vs. small pack users - I just think that everyone (quite rightly) has their favoured approach. This is (or maybe I should say 'was') mine...

If I ever stop seeing the winter as the bouldering season and revert back to my Scottish Winter ways I wonder if I'd change my approach given the advent of new kit/technology/thinking?

 planetmarshall 08 Nov 2018
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

> If I ever stop seeing the winter as the bouldering season and revert back to my Scottish Winter ways I wonder if I'd change my approach given the advent of new kit/technology/thinking?

I think you'll definitely need a larger pack for all those layers, Rob. Just think how cold it will be when Hell freezes over.

 

 richgac 08 Nov 2018
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Leaving aside the obvious fact that 30litres is in fact bigger and has more material than 20litres, it really just depends if you prioritise comfort/convenience while climbing or while walking in.  I'd rather everything was optimal when I'm climbing since that's when I'm challenged and irritations like a floppy, empty pack are amplified.  I think I've tried everything from 22 to 65 litres and for the gear and clothing I carry in winter 30 litres (or the Arcteryx FL equivalent of) is the best balance.   All this does assume the pack is staying with me all day on the route ... if it's going to be left at the base then I'm all for a bigger more comfortable carrying bag.

In reply to planetmarshall:

> I think you'll definitely need a larger pack for all those layers, Rob. Just think how cold it will be when Hell freezes over.

Just think of how good the Gritstone conditions will be, is that what you're saying

In reply to TobyA:

Interesting, I used my Ascensionist 40l for around 50 days out last winter, and maybe another 30 or 40 days working on the Cuillin this summer and it's still in surprisingly good nick. I'll certainly be using it for the coming Scottish season, and hopefully beyond.

I do agree with Galpinos that it doesn't work super well with a rope over the top, but it's very rare for me not to fit everything inside the 40l- when this is the case I tend to coil the rope in an 'alpine' style and drape it between the top of the sack and the back of my shoulders, which works fine. I do think that the Arc'teryx bags are great, I just prefer a slightly bigger top pocket and I find the one on the Ascensionist to work for me- totally personal preference. When I used the Tupilak for a few days in winter I found it to be good, with all of the components to be a great sack but just not quite right for me.

I use a Crux RK40 with the side compression system chopped off for all of my general cragging, so this saves my mountain pack from wearing out in general dragging around.  


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