UKC

Beal joker and Beal Cobra......how do you rate them?

In reply to An Triubhas:

I have a pair of each (see below). In my opinion they are excellent. Both handle extremely well and are perfect for what they are designed to do.

Down side - they wear quickly. I'm on my third set of Jokers, and my second set of Cobra's.

The friday before last I was coming of a long multipitch and finished the last of several long abseils in the dark. During the day I had been critically looking at the jokers I was using and had decided to retire them after this day finished. As it happens I got to the bottom of the last abseil (60m) in the dark, and just couldn't be arsed to pull them down, so knowing I was never going to use them again I left them there and walked away. New pair ordered this morning.

Pushed to say which of the two I'd choose, then I'd have to say the Cobras are my fav.

In reply to Removed User:
As it happens I got to the bottom of the last abseil (60m) in the dark, and just couldn't be arsed to pull them down, so knowing I was never going to use them again I left them there and walked away. New pair ordered this morning.

Have you considered the environmental impact of leaving the ropes behind. you are no better than someone who finishes a packet of crisps and just throws the packet on the ground. Hopefully some other kind person has removed your junk and done something more useful with the ropes. They could be recycled or made into something else. You could have donated them to your local scout group for new lashing ropes or for making a swing, as long as you told them they weren't for climbing on. Hopefully you have realised this was a bad idea

Not having a go at you personally but more the mentality many people have nowadays that they can leave their rubbish behind for someone else to clear up

David

In reply to An Triubhas:
mammut ropes last much longer.

In reply to climber david:

Yeah, you are so right. Thanks for making me realise that what I did was bad. I really hadn't looked at it that way. Seriously, I won't do it again.

In reply to Removed User:
Are you being sarcastic?

Leaving a rope hanging down a crag because you wanted to retire it is bang out of order - end of. I'm seriously in a state of disbelief any climber would do this. I certainly wouldn't climb again with anyone that was so ignorant of the outdoor environment that they would do this.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

No I'm not being sarcastic, I'm deadly serious.

Yes I was bang out of order, and I was ignorant. I swear I won't do it again.

In reply to CurlyStevo:


I've found it the other way round. Cobras have lasted really well.

Every time this thread reoccurs, which being UKC it will often, I always say this for balance. I have a feeling it's just you and just me repeating ourselves.

In reply to Max factor:
Fair enough, I've owned beal ropes and the found the opposite. Rocky57 doesn't seem overly impressed by their durability either.

The sheath percentage of the rope weight is aprox 10% more on the mammut genesis than the beals cobras and its more tightly woven, this is why most people find the mammuts harder wearing but why the max force stats are higher.

Even comparing the genesis against the verdon II (beals half rope with the most sheath percentage) the genesis has 19% more weight of sheath per metre (I'm just comparing the sheath weight per meter here not the sheath percentage of the rope weight) and that is on a smaller diameter rope. If you compared two ropes made the same way with the same weight of sheath per metre, the narrower diameter rope will generally be harder wearing as its thinner (so the sheath is thicker) and lighter (less drag / friction).

Hi,

I use a pair of Cobra II's (60 m) and one Joker (100 m). I only ever used the Joker doubled up once in Swanage so I can't really comment on how it fares as a half rope. I seldom use the Joker in fact (used it intensively only for a couple of weeks on two different trips to Spain where you do find many routes over 40 m long… amazing journeys btw). I'm using the Cobra II's more often recently, mostly on granite and gneiss. Having said that, Beal's sheath is not the most durable on the market. It has been said many times in this forum (and not only this forum). The sheath on all my Beal ropes has always gone fluffy very quickly. I think the Cobra II's are faring marginally better than the Joker (again, only two weeks of intensive use!) only because I use them as pair. I would think the Joker would probably last longer than the Cobra II if used as half rope? My speculation; I don't know really. But based on how I used and use them, I rate the Cobra II better than the Joker. While I don't have much experience with half ropes, I have used many single ropes and I found other triple rated models faring much better than the Joker in my hands when used as single.

Personally, I keep going back to Beal from time to time because they offer good value for money. On average they are all good decent ropes, they're not entry level bottom quality promo ropes. I don't even think Beal has a range of such entry level ropes like other manufacturers do. On a scale from 1 to 5 I'd probably rate any Beal rope I've used in the past anything from 3 to 4

Nic

In reply to GoCragging.com:
There is no doubt the beals handle better and have a lower impact force from new.

I'd love to see some stats on ropes after they been used a couple of years and washed several times, replicating climbing in winter and rinsing after sea cliffs. The dry coating does wear off somewhat and its partly that that keeps the impact force low on fully dry treated ropes. Also rinsing ropes to some degree bonds the sheath to the core which must also effect things.

Anyway I don't think there is a clear winner it's just down to what you prefer.

I'd love to see those stats too I doubt they'll ever happen though

I'm not sure about the dry treatment playing a part in keeping a low impact force. Unless you mean the dry treatment protecting the sheath and core from external agents and therefore helping the rope retaining its dynamic properties. That's definitely the aim of such treatments, although, as you say, it really matters when climbing, for example, sea cliffs, but also ice, snow, etc. it probably matters more for UK climbers than for the average continental crag hopper.

I agree, there isn't a clear winner between the Cobra II and the Joker. They belong to different categories after all. When I bought the Joker I was really looking for a skinny 100 m rope that would not weigh tonnes on my shoulders and it seemed the right choice at the time. Nowadays there are even skinnier and lighter single or triple rated ropes around whose sheath behave better than the Joker's.

Btw, I forgot to say that my Joker is not the latest Unicore version, while the Cobra II's are the new Unicore ones, manufactured in 2013. Even harder (or nonsensical) to compare them...

I'm still not completely sold on the "triple rated" concept. I'm not very good at judging these things though as the numbers seem to tell me either people love skinny triple rated ropes or manufacturers have very good reasons to push the sales of skinny triple rated ropes.

As you say, going with what we prefer, sounds very sensible indeed

Nic

In reply to GoCragging.com:
Individually coating the fibres with teflon or similar provides both a dry treatment for top end ropes and also allows the fibres to move more slickly against each other, which makes the rope perform better lowering the max force and increasing the number of falls held and sharp edge resistance (although I think UIAA discontinued this factor).

I was comparing the cobra and the genesis not the cobra and the joker.

I personally wouldn't buy a joker - for sport climbing I want a beefier 10mm generally and for half ropes I want 8.5mm tops, and I only have so much room in my flat / cash!

Stevo