UKC

Belay carabiner reccomdations

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 red1200 25 Nov 2019

I'm after a new belay carabineer, been using a DMM belay master for years, but it's getting grooved now. The plastic thing annoys me a bit as it's fiddly so I'm thinking of getting one with an built in belay loop clip eg like the DMM Ceros.

I need it for use with a gri gri and also easy to get twin ropes in with a normal belay device.

Any reccomendations or fiddly ones to avoid?

Thanks in advance

 MischaHY 25 Nov 2019
In reply to red1200:

Well, DMM Ceros. 

1
 Martin Bennett 25 Nov 2019
In reply to red1200:

Black Diamond Gridlock is my current favourite. No annoying plastic thing. No faffing with yer thumb to open the spring loaded 'keeper'.

5
In reply to red1200:

I've been using the Petzl Attache with a grigri and reverso. Lightweight and simple. 

https://www.urbanrock.com/petzl-attache-screwgate-karabiner/

 Basemetal 25 Nov 2019
In reply to red1200:

I'm a fan of Grivels twin Gates, like the Lambda HMS, and see that they've brought out a belay version , the Clepsydra, with an extra belay loop gate. It looks a bit long to me and probably pricey, so I'll stick with the Lambda. (It replaced a Belay Master too).

The standard twin Gates work so much faster than screw gates once you get used to them and dont freeze up. And there's no danger of the rope unlocking the screw.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/climbing/belays/grivel_twin_gate_carabiners...

Post edited at 11:33
2
 Paul Hy 25 Nov 2019
In reply to Martin Bennett:

I had the original belay master, then the gridlock but now the Ceros, the separate action of the gate and clip to hold it in place works better for me.  Metolios does one similar but i'd recommend the Ceros.

 C Witter 25 Nov 2019
In reply to red1200:

Personally, I think the Ceros is fiddly and annoying, especially if your belay loop is quite wide. I don't have one, but was working with a group of kids, one of whom had the twist-lock Ceros. It was fiddly enough that the kids couldn't actually fit it to their harnesses themselves; I found it fiddly on a centre harness with a wide belay loop. I wouldn't want to bother with that in cold weather or wearing gloves.

The great thing about the plastic keeper of the belay master is that, apart from being simple, if it's p*ssing you off (e.g. whilst crunched up on a tight belay, trying to turn the locker around), you can snap it off so that you just have a normal locker. That allows you to sort yourself out and then clip it back on (or put the clip in your pocket for later). You can't do that with the fancy new crabs with the keeper built-in.

2
 Jockspotter 25 Nov 2019
In reply to red1200:

Definitely the Ceros - used it for a while with a grigri+ and various other belay devices and its worked great with all and avoids cross loading!

1
 c9smith8 25 Nov 2019
In reply to Martin Bennett:

I second the gridlock, easiest to open the "keeper", especially with gloves on/with a nest of clove-hitches on your belay loop etc...

2
 Iamgregp 25 Nov 2019
In reply to red1200:

Black Diamond Gridlock is good, used one of those for years...

However I must admit the climbing technology one (think it's called the SGL?) that goes with my click up I find even less fiddly.  I quit like the way that you don't need to open the gate to pop the keeper over your belay loop...

 Mark Stevenson 25 Nov 2019
In reply to red1200:

Not sure about you, but for me having the same krab for multiple belay devices seems like a real faff. My two main devices both have their own one. That way I never need to swap things over and each krab is chosen to suit a single task. 

For a GriGri with an experienced user, the risk of cross-loading should be fairly low. As such lots of krabs should work perfectly fine, including bog standard D-shaped screwgates. A few options that may work well are:

- I use a Petzl Freino, which is absolutely great, especially for lowering if using an original GriGri rather than a later one. The main downside is they are stupidly expensive at retail price and don't work well with other devices.

- One partner uses a BD Gridlock, however with the narrow end to the GriGri, which is a really neat. Definitely a top option. (Not sure if others like the Ceros work in that orientation but worth a look.) 

- Another partner uses a DMM Oval Screw gate. Again a nice option.

Given that when indoor or sport climbing I pretty much exclusively use my GriGri, my normal belay plate (Petzl Reverso) is mainly used for trad and with fairly thin double ropes. Over the past decade I've generally gone for something relatively compact with an auto locking mechanism for security and speed.

- DMM Sentinel Locksafe (triple lock gate - push/twist/open). On the smaller side and easy to use once you've gotten the hang of the gate. The gate mechanism did start to wear after a few years but I felt I'd got my moneys worth.

- BD Vaporlock Magnetron. A great sized krab and the magnetic gate is fantastically quick and secure. Still useable in Winter, a bit fiddly with gloves and probably not much more prone to icing than normal screwgates. I'm super happy with this, although might baulk at the replacement price when my current one wears out. 

- Grivel Twingates. I have used some of these but with my Kong guide plate. I quite like them. I'd be happy using their mid-sized HMS version with a normal plate. 

Finally, a couple of dislikes.

These days I dislike the largest HMS krabs for use with a standard plate. I used both a DMM Boa and a BD Rocklock recently and with the larger smoothly curved design they seemed more likely to twist around, risking cross-loading than slightly smaller designs. I suppose this is actually another way of saying that if you do really want a larger krab then possibly go for one like the Ceros with an anti-cross-loading design.

I don't like the Petzl Attache Screwgate as a belay krab. I find that the gate mechanism is a bit too "loose". The gate barrel spins very freely which is good in some respects but I found that they seemed more likely to come undone compared to DMM, BD and Grivel krabs. 

Probably too many options available these days for obvious agreement on what's best, especially if you want something to work in lots of scenarios. However hope some of that helps. 

1
 Neil Williams 25 Nov 2019
In reply to red1200:

I like the Belay Master and don't find the clip annoying.  Another nice feature of the plastic clip over other designs is that not only does it avoid cross-loading, but it also won't clip if the screwgate isn't screwed in, and also prevents it unscrewing by accident.

Some would argue it's best to use a dedicated krab for a Grigri as with it being metal on metal it can scratch it which can wear rope, by the way.

Post edited at 14:45
1
 wbo2 25 Nov 2019
In reply to red1200:  I have a DMM belaymaster which is good, but i really like the Edelrid Bulletproof HMS.  I mostly use that with my grip grip, but it seems to just work well. 

Did not get on with BD magnetrob at all and gave it away

 mtom91 25 Nov 2019
In reply to red1200:

Petzl Am'D Ball lock every day of the week!

 monkey man 25 Nov 2019
In reply to red1200:

Another ceros vote

In reply to red1200:

Given that you like the belay master, and it has become grooved, I would recommend the Edelrid Bulletproof HMS with retainer. 

 Luke_92 26 Nov 2019
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

> Given that you like the belay master, and it has become grooved, I would recommend the Edelrid Bulletproof HMS with retainer. 

I second this, I love mine. 

 krikoman 26 Nov 2019
In reply to red1200:

Clepsydra is £9 in certain shops

In reply to red1200:

Personal use, with someone who knows what they're doing, low chance of rescues/problem solving/tie offs etc, I go small, Black Diamond Minipearabiner.

Instructional use, or with 2 people who don't know what they're doing, greater chance of rescues/problem solving/tie offs etc, I go large, Black Diamond Rocklock.

HTH.

 druss 26 Nov 2019
In reply to red1200

Recommend the DMM Ultra O Kwiklock for use with gri-gri and plate.  Spins round smoothly so extremely difficult to cross load.  Had belay biner in the past but after using a oval realized belay lockers were a solution looking for a problem.

https://dmmclimbing.com/Products/Locking-Carabiners/Ultra-O

 pass and peak 27 Nov 2019
In reply to red1200:

DMM Rhino kwiklock for me, I find all the devices with the extra gate for the belay loop too awkward to remove from the rear harness loop using one hand!

 meggies 27 Nov 2019
In reply to red1200:

DMM Phantom for my DMM Pivot (can use it for an Italian Hitch too, if you drop your plate)

Petzl oval screwgate for my Grigri (reversed standard-D is a great idea too - the narrow end will help hold the Grigri in place)

 SteveSBlake 27 Nov 2019
In reply to red1200: Absolutely unreal........


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