UKC

Black diamond - poor customer service

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 Danbow73 03 Jul 2024

Has anyone had to deal with black diamonds customer service and also had poor service?

I've had 3 of my Z4 cams trigger wires snap with 2 years moderate use, I wouldn't mind but these aren't replaceable either by the user or manufacturer.  Apparently this is from use and not a design issue.

I also can't get my older C4's slings replaced so currently cam less! 

Frustrating to say the least.

2
 Dunthemall 03 Jul 2024

Z4? Alien repair kit, the wires are seperate not pairs but could work.

At least with the C4 you can still clip a draw into the loop. or Fish Products (Joshua Tree) will sew in new (nylon) slings.

Post edited at 17:08
 PaulJepson 03 Jul 2024
In reply to Danbow73:

I'm sure I heard that some shops are sending batches of cams to BD's European headquarters to get re-slung. 

 Godwin 03 Jul 2024
In reply to Danbow73:

So what exactly did you as them to do that they have refused to do?

You actually have no relationship with Black Diamond, but one with the retailer you bought the cams from. If you believe the cams have not lasted as long as you expected you should be having a word with them, and suggesting you may take court action.

It's a bit off really slagging off a company on a public forum, when for all we know you could be a complete numpty and your cams could be in a right old state.

38
 jdh72 03 Jul 2024
In reply to Danbow73:

I've also been on the receiving end of some very poor customer service recently from Black Diamond.

They did not honour the warranty on my BD Carbon FLZ poles and accused me of causing accidental damage when I experienced a common problem shared by many other users of these poles. The internal cord can contract and make it impossible to pull and click the pole sections into place rendering them useless. They're not repairable nor would BD replace the pole. Accusing me of accidental damage when it's a well known design problem is well out of order. It's likely hundreds if not thousands of other users of these poles worldwide have encountered this problem. 

Black Diamond Europe were impossible to contact via telephone about this, always through to an automated message after nobody picking up the phone after a few minutes. 

A few years ago one of my BD Icon head torches started malfunctioning and wouldn't cycle through all the modes properly and some modes wouldn't work, they refused to help me out with that either.

 Steve Claw 04 Jul 2024
In reply to Danbow73:

Why would you buy cams from the other side of the world, when we have one of the best climbing gear manufacturers (that also do repairs) here in the UK?

16
OP Danbow73 04 Jul 2024
In reply to Godwin:

I offered to pay for trigger wire replacements on all the affected cams. They are a little bit more complicated to replace but it would be possible. Seems BD have just chosen to not provide this service meaning you have to retire a cam when the trigger wire gets damaged.

Combine this with the trigger wires on my c4s lasting 5+ years and getting half that from the Z4s It doesn't seem particularly sustainable and sucks for me as a customer. 

I also asked about reslinging my c4s as I cant find a retailer who has successfully sent cams back in the UK. When I brought the cams I brought them on the understanding that you could send them back to the US to be reslung which they no longer let people do.


OP Danbow73 04 Jul 2024
In reply to PaulJepson:

Do you know which ones?

In reply to Dunthemall:

You can't clip into the loop on the old single-stem version. I have some that have just hit the 20 year old mark... (so really needed re-slung a while back!)

In reply to Steve Claw:

> Why would you buy cams from the other side of the world, when we have one of the best climbing gear manufacturers (that also do repairs) here in the UK?

Why is that relevant.

2
 Graeme Hammond 04 Jul 2024
In reply to Alasdair Fulton:

> You can't clip into the loop on the old single-stem version. I have some that have just hit the 20 year old mark... (so really needed re-slung a while back!)

Make sure you inspect the main weight bearing stem where it meets the head of the cam, my mate had an old BD stingle stem version like yours that snapped there from prolonged use with no warning. Something that i have come to realise is to be expected in any brand of heavily used cams.

See info:

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/have-you-checked-your-camming-devices-recently

Post edited at 09:35

 Graeme Hammond 04 Jul 2024
In reply to Danbow73:

> Combine this with the trigger wires on my c4s lasting 5+ years and getting half that from the Z4s It doesn't seem particularly sustainable and sucks for me as a customer. 

Agreed it suck they can't be repaired but also remember you are comparing a durable cam with a lightweight micro cam with a thiner lightweight trigger system. From thier perspective it is possible to place and remove a cam many times without causing damage to the cables if done perfectly.  You however have likely damaged those cables during placement or removal of the cam and that is wear and tear which shortens the maximum lifespan of the product. Depending on use this can happen very quickly or take years unfortunately. 

 Toerag 04 Jul 2024
In reply to Danbow73:

As trigger wires aren't load-bearing just get your local engineering firm to replace them - it's only a bit of wire and a couple of crimps. Or try the 'blobbed monofilament' fix yourself.

1
 Graeme Hammond 04 Jul 2024
In reply to Toerag:

> As trigger wires aren't load-bearing just get your local engineering firm to replace them - it's only a bit of wire and a couple of crimps. Or try the 'blobbed monofilament' fix yourself.

Not sure the local engineering firm are going to do that job any cheaper than buying a new cam, small job perhaps but taking labour and other costs into account it's probably not even worth thier while unfortunately vs the cost to the user.

 Godwin 04 Jul 2024
In reply to Danbow73:

It would seem you have made a common error, buying a more high performance item, not understanding that this may result in a shorter life span.

If you think it substandard, I have heard a rumor that the BMC has a technical committee and you could forward your comments and maybe the cams to them, and then can assess and maybe collate, and then people could have an overview of if there is in fact a problem.

In my recent contact with BD customer service over some jammed carbon poles, of unknown age, they could offer no solution other than buy new ones, and offered a 30% discount, which I thought was fair enough. But I met an Italian cycle team whose wd40 an mole grips supplied a better solution.

Post edited at 10:36
3
 PaulJepson 04 Jul 2024
In reply to Danbow73:

I have a feeling that the person in question said Outside but Graeme may be able to shed more light on whether that is a fabrication of my imagination or not!

In reply to Danbow73:

Not selling replacement wires is not the same as bad customer service.

I have always had good customer service from BD. They replaced a head torch and quickly helped me solve a problem with poles. 

1
In reply to Graeme Hammond:

A good inspection is probably required! Might be the museum shelf for them... 

OP Danbow73 04 Jul 2024
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:

Making it harder to resling is poorer customer service IMO, especially when of the reasons I bought the cams in the first place was they offered a reslinging service.

The first cam had the issue a year after purchase and they said I had accidently damaged the cam so I sucked it up and bought a replacement. 12 Months later I've had exactly the same issue with 2 others so either there is a batch issue or design flaw, yet they still claim its me that has damaged the Cams, when there's documented evidence online of lots of people having the issue. 

So to sum it up there seems to be a inherent weakness in the trigger wires which are a commonly replaceable part but because BD don't have the facility to replace these they are insisting that its the way that I use them which is causing the issue. Thats pretty poor to me. 

Post edited at 16:42
7
 Alex Riley 04 Jul 2024
In reply to Danbow73:

It's a design weakness, the previous x4s had Kevlar or solid wire and are bombproof. Mine are 10 years old and have no damage (unfortunately I can get them reslung!).

1
 Dunthemall 04 Jul 2024

The Z4's look repairable. You can buy SS wire down to 0.5mm diameter (probably 20m!). No space for a power swager. But wire swaging tools are easily obtainable.

Just have to carefully remove the old wire and swages.


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