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/ Climbing boot laces. Why so slippery?

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More_Than_a_Plod - on 08 Feb 2018

I've had Lowa boots for many years. I've tried several brands but never found any that fit my feet so perfectly as Lowa do.

I've recently noticed however that their b2 b3 boots such as Cevedale or Mountain expert/ Weisshorn have developed a shinier slippery lace.

The lace constantly comes undone if tied in a conventional way. 

There's no extra lace locks or such mechanical methods to lock the laces in place and whilst double or triple knotting eventually keeps it together it irks me somewhat that this occurs. 

Anyone any idea why Lowa would make slippery laces? 

Post edited at 21:19
nufkin - on 08 Feb 2018
In reply to More_Than_a_Plod:

> Anyone any idea why Lowa would make slippery laces? 

Possibly trying to outdo Scarpa - the laces on my Phantom Ultras are maddeningly prone to coming undone. I'd replace them with flat ones, only I don't think that'd work with the tensioner gizmo they have. Might be worth a go with your Lowas, though

 

More_Than_a_Plod - on 08 Feb 2018
In reply to nufkin:

Replacing them is my next step I think. 

jamie_bkc - on 08 Feb 2018
In reply to More_Than_a_Plod:

Have you tried the trick where you loop round and under the bight twice when tying? It makes a higher friction knot rather than stacking two slippy ones, can be untied normally too.

Post edited at 23:41
Dave Cundy - on 08 Feb 2018
In reply to More_Than_a_Plod:

Same problem with the laces on my 5:10 approach shoes which (a) constantly come undone and (b) twist maddeningly.  I blame it on young designers who get seduced by a new material property (eg. low wear), to the detriment of another (eg. good friction).  It's surprising how knowledge can be lost from one generation to the next

mountain.martin - on 09 Feb 2018
In reply to Dave Cundy:

I have the same problems with laces on my 5.10 guide tennies. However carefully I tie them, if I only do a single knot, they come undone within 5 mins. So I have to tie a double, but with the very thin lace it is really hard to untie.

Frustratingly poor design.

olddirtydoggy - on 09 Feb 2018
In reply to More_Than_a_Plod:

I use the B3 Lowa boot and have the same problem. Another issue is the boots leak like a sieve and have never been very good in wet snow or wet ground. Great fit otherwise.

Mr Fuller on 09 Feb 2018
In reply to More_Than_a_Plod:

Rubbing boot wax into laces usually solves the problem.

Si Withington - on 09 Feb 2018
In reply to More_Than_a_Plod:

Tie a reef knot well, then a bow over the top. Make sure each element is properly cinched up and dressed. Problem solved. Works on the super slippy dyneema laces on my Phantom Guides .

 

Post edited at 08:49
Andrew Lodge - on 09 Feb 2018
In reply to More_Than_a_Plod:

Laces were traditionally made from mohair, this gripped well and rarely came undone.

Modern laces are now made from nylon or have a high nylon content, nylon is much cheaper than mohair.

Nylon is a very slippery material so your laces come undone.

Sadly, like many things it all comes down to cost, it's a place manufacturers can save a few pennies per pair and if they are buying thousands of pairs of laces per year it will be a considerable saving over a year.

More_Than_a_Plod - on 10 Feb 2018
In reply to Si Withington:

> Tie a reef knot well, then a bow over the top. Make sure each element is properly cinched up and dressed. Problem solved. Works on the super slippy dyneema laces on my Phantom Guides .

Surely the bow would still come undone? Even if cinched up? I like the reef knot idea though!

EddInaBox on 10 Feb 2018
In reply to people struggling with laces:

For some people the problem may not be the laces but the way they tie the bow.  You can tie a bow like a reef knot (e.g. left over right to start then pass the bight right over left) or a granny knot (left over left or right over right) the granny knot version is much less secure than the reef knot version.

Babika - on 10 Feb 2018
In reply to jamie_bkc:

This knot is infallible. I learnt it about 3 years ago from a friend who called it "the fell runners knor".

I never do anything else now as I got fed up with climbing shoes unravelling

nufkin - on 10 Feb 2018
In reply to EddInaBox:

> You can tie a bow like a reef knot (e.g. left over right to start then pass the bight right over left) or a granny knot (left over left or right over right) the granny knot version is much less secure than the reef knot version.

I normally just do a granny knot with my laces, but have consciously made an effort to make a proper reef knot with my Phantom Ultras. It still works loose, but knot as quickly. The 'Fell Runners Knot' sounds worth a try

 

Ean T - on 10 Feb 2018
In reply to More_Than_a_Plod:

This guy nails it. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80JZCgxqfb0

climb41 on 11 Feb 2018
In reply to More_Than_a_Plod:

I used to tie double knots until I happened to read about this website in a running magazine...

https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/

Once I realised that the base for the knot should be a reef knot rather than a granny knot, bingo. Never tied a double knot since. Easiest way to change a lifetime of tying it one way is just to reverse the first bit you do, you know the “left over right” bit, or maybe you do “right over left”. But you get the idea.

G.

 


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