That alternate way of holding the rope looks useful, we have struggled with the device as it is really quite 'snatchy', and tricky to release once it has grabbed.
I agree totally with the review in that the device feels like a step backwards in usability,
Overall I concur, it's not as usable as i'd have liked for an 'improved' model. However one thing I have noticed is that for very soft ropes it's handling is better than the original Click up. I think that is because it accommodates wider diameter ropes and the suppleness mitigates the grabbiness somehow. But for stiffer ropes (new Simond 10mm wall rope) the handling is better in the original click up.
"... and yet you can't just replace it with any carabiner - it really does need to have exactly the same diameter."
Then maybe I've struck lucky, since I've been using my (original) ClickUp with a DMM Rhino, and it works fine.
(There was no carabiner supplied with it when I bought it.)
> Then maybe I've struck lucky, since I've been using my (original) ClickUp with a DMM Rhino, and it works fine.
I haven’t tried the Rhino. It is perfectly possibly though that it is the same diameter as the CT prescribed crab. I did try the Edelrid Bulletproof belay crab and it worked, but there was a small amount of slippage. I think most normal sized belay crabs would work but you need to be a bit more careful since they probably won’t 100% lock so the rope may slip through slowly. I doubt this will have any effect on your ability to catch falls though, it will just be annoying for your mate if you slowly release them while they are working a route. This is likely to be worse with thinner ropes.
> (There was no carabiner supplied with it when I bought it.)
That is curious unless you got it second hand. My understanding is that they are only ever supposed to be sold as a pair.
I've been using the original Click Up for some time at the wall and on sport trips and think that it's a very safe and easy to use device. I bought a Click Up + simply because I read that it could take thicker ropes than the original, the ones that I find at our local wall. Unfortunately I found that it kept locking up when giving rope out quickly and I soon decided that rather than being an improvement it was a backward step. However I must praise Needle Sports for taking it back and giving me a credit note. I've watched the CT video on how to feed rope and can see how that would work but I'm not getting another Click Up +. I'll just keep carrying my Pivot or my CT Be UP (excellent by the way), when going to the wall.
There has been talk on UKC of a half-way "click" position on the new Click Up+, and its possible role in an accident. Any comment on this "half way" position? (I've never handled the new version.)
I suspect the unfortunate modification is at least in partial response to a DAV study of belay devices in gyms that gave the Click Up a bad rating, based on the fact that it (as with any ATC-type device) won't lock if the brake strand is held above the device and parallel to the load strand. The review here suggests that experienced climbers never do this, but I think they do it all the time when taking in slack quickly. But dropping the brake hand to stop a fall is a simple reaction everyone used to learn with an ATC, and which certainly could just as well be learned with the Click Up.
The reason the new model locks up more frequently is that the optimal taking-in and feeding-out positions are now blocked, forcing the belayer to work with a brake strand not parallel to the load strand, thereby making it more likely to lock up the device. So a slightly more idiot-proof device at the expense of good handling.
The Click-up is basically a single-pitch device, but it is perhaps worth mentioning that pumping slack with the feeding hand will not work well if there is rope weight hanging down at the belay.
Do not buy this piece of shit. I was furious with mine when I got it as it was absolutely unusable and would lock up with every single arm's length of rope payed out.
Since then I've figured out the problem with it and how to very slightly improve it - the two springy wires that hold the karabiner in place as opposed to the single hidden sprung plate of the original cause the issue. Together, they have enough force to hold the karabiner at the bottom of the device when belaying, but as soon as you bring your dead hand out of the central plane of your body (over to the side away from you as you slide it down the brake end of the rope) it twists the device causing the biner to slip past one spring, which is weak when loaded on its own. All it takes then is to give out slack to lock the thing. Should have just bought a grigri.
> I suspect the unfortunate modification is at least in partial response to a DAV study of belay devices in gyms that gave the Click Up a bad rating, based on the fact that it (as with any ATC-type device) won't lock if the brake strand is held above the device and parallel to the load strand.
I think it's a really bad idea to have a belay device which encourages people to hold the rope in a way which wouldn't lock on most other devices. If people get used to holding the dead rope above the device when belaying with the Click Up+ there's an accident waiting to happen when they need to use a different device.
Having used the original CU for years, I was annoyed when I got the new CU+ device that it was so difficult to use. I eventually removed the small pin (used a thin blunt nail as a punch) holding the hing plate & removed the hinge plate completly. It has improved the handling & made it more like the original but still not quite as easy to use. I'm sure this is not recommeneded by CT but it was either that or bin it!
> My original clickup was supplied without a carabiner. It aslo stated that it was ok to abseil but to be careful about heat buildup on long abseils.
The original came without a karabiner but the wear on normal karabiners was appalling and there were problems with some designs that the ClickUp couldn´t move into the locked position so CT brought out a specific karabiner for it. This is hard-anodised to extend the life but has the unfortunate downside that when the anodising wears through it leave a sharp lip which kinda shaves the rope when lowering leaving rope dust everywhere.
As did Coel Hellier I purchased my original ClickUp sans biner. I have used both a DMM Rihno and Black Diamond grid lock screw gates with it and found while both worked okay there is potentially a more critical problem than a bit of slippage due to different stock diameter. It turns out the screw lock sleeves on both these biners are of a smaller diameter than the screw lock sleeve on the dedicated CT ClickUp biner and if by chance the ClickUp slides around into a cross loading position on the locking sleeve side, the sleeve can slide into the ClickUp slot and jamb causing the ClickUp to not be able to ClickUp! The screw sleeve on the dedicated biner is fatter and can't do this. I suspect most other screw locks are smaller and have this potential to slide into the slot and jamb the ClickUp - check yours! The ClickUp plus has the same issue - I purchased one thinking it would be even better than the original and as per the review am sadly disappointed.
> ... the sleeve can slide into the ClickUp slot and jamb ...
Interesting. I've just had a play with mine, and yes this seems possible, but pretty unlikely, and it has never happened to me in practice. I'm using the "Locksafe" version of the Rhino, rather than a Screwgate.
As above, this combination (DMM Locksafe Rhino and original ClickUp) has always worked fine for me, with reliable locking every time (so far!) and no slippage when the leader is dangling on the rope. There is wear to the anodising and aluminium, but only moderately so, and it is smooth, there is no hard "lip", so doesn't seem to be a problem.
I guess really heavy users might find it wears quickly, but even a new Rhino biner every year would not be that big a deal.
I hope they keep making the original clickup in parallel with the new plus, there aren't any plans to phase it out?
I never used the original click up, but considering how well that was received I bought this thinking it would likely be even better. It was pretty much useless in my experience. Far far too grabby on my 9.8 lead rope, and and totally useless indoors on anything thicker. I tried for a month to learn how to use it well, but no joy, I sold it and bought the 2019 grigri, which is amazing.
> I think it's a really bad idea to have a belay device which encourages people to hold the rope in a way which wouldn't lock on most other devices. If people get used to holding the dead rope above the device when belaying with the Click Up+ there's an accident waiting to happen when they need to use a different device.
This is the way all non-locking tube devices work. If you don't keep the strands nearly parallel as you take in and pay out, there's a good chance you'll lock them up too. Of course, actually *holding* the brake strand in that position is courting disaster, so as with all devices, there is something to learn. One of the advantages of the original Click-Up and Alpine Up is that the motions you learned in manipulating an ordinary plate work the same way.
It is worth noting that virtually all devices require the user to defeat the device locking capability in order to pump slack to a leader, either by disabling a cam or by levering the device out with a thumb loop. So there is nothing unique about the Click Up in this regard.