UKC

Adrian Berry reviews the Alpine Up - a double rope assisted belay device.

Is it like a Grigri for Trad climbers? Would you take it multipitch climbing? Does it weigh more than a housebrick?

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=5743

In reply to UKC Gear:

"but auto-locking double rope devices have been conspicuous in their absence - until now"

or since the mega jul...

How does it compare to the mega jul? I've given up with mine as it is a pain to abseil with. And I found that if the climber was only weighting one half rope it wouldn't always lock. Does this happen with this device?

In reply to DaveR:


Read the review!

In reply to Robert Durran:

I did, but a bit too quickly

In reply to DaveR:

>> "but auto-locking double rope devices have been conspicuous in their absence - until now"


Well, to be honest, Alpine Up has been on the market since 2012, where as Mega-Jul just come out last fall.

In reply to DaveR:



Adrian just hasn´t been looking that hard, I can think of a few and used one of them as well (TRE Sirius).

There are a series of tests from the DAV where the circumstances where the current generation of devices don´t autolock are given.

It´s worth pointing out (suprised the review didn´t)that the official term for autolocking is Manually Assisted Locking and the Alpine Up is not certified as this, only as a manual device same as an ATC.
The Alpine Up is certified as conforming to EN 15151-2:2012 type 2 (which should read prEN... as it it not yet approved and may well not be). The -2 means it is a manual belay device and the type 2 means it is for both belaying and abseiling without a friction adjustment mode.
The GriGri on the other hand is prEN 15151-1 type 6 which is a Braking Device with Manually Assisted Locking (the -1) and the type 6 tells me it is for abseiling and belaying but has no panic locking element.

And before anyone tells me theirs has always locked the Alpine Up, Smart, MegaJul et al will never pass the certification test. The only ones that do are the Grigri and Edelrid Eddy.

In reply to UKC Gear:

I've used the Alpine Up. It works really well on my 7.7mm ice lines (and I like it on these ropes), with two old 8.5mm's it is hard work in guide mode to bring a second up. With a 9.8mm it is impossible.

In reply to jimtitt:

I've got both the Alpine Up and a TRE; Prefer the TRE. Are they still being produced as I could do with a new one.

In reply to UKC Gear:

Is it common practice to leave the locker unlocked whilst belaying?

In reply to Removed User:


Haven´t been made for years. They suffered a bit from the same problem the other devices of this type have which is wear on the karabiner except on the Sirius it wasn´t the krab but the pins. There was an upgrade but then the patent was sold to Edelrid who used the idea to produce the Zap-O-Mat which is also now discontinued.
Probably an idea before it´s time in some ways since funtionally it was good.

In reply to HeMa:



I used my mate's Mega Jul early last summer and the device had already been out for a while at that point

In reply to jimtitt:


I vaguely remember them. Were they any good? Do you know why they stopped making them?

In reply to AlanLittle:

Might have been. Mega Jul came out at the same time as the really thin ropes came out from Edelrid. And at a quick glance, it seems they came out spring 2013, not fall..

http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/news.php?id=5319

But still a year later than Alpine Up.

In reply to UKC Gear:

Also, didn't notice it mentioned in the review, but the original version of Alpine Up is the Click up, which is excellent and pretty much the same weight as a Grigri 2.

Of course, it's not something you'd take on a multipitch route, but I love the whole concept of Alpine/Click-up in that it combines the ease of use of ATC with the auto-locking of Grigri. I've used Click-up ever since it was originally released.

In reply to TobyA:


Never used one so my opinion may well be worthless (not that that should stop me, it´s the internet after all). It tried to occupy a niche already occupied by an extremely solid, reliable and proven device in the GriGri and offered no discernable advantages. It´s flimsyness put me off and presumably many others and was also in direct competition to Edelrids own solid, reliable, heavy and expensive competitor to the GriGri. A strange marketing concept somehow if you asked me.
I´ve never seen one in use or in a shop which is probably why it´s discontinued.

Bannana Fingers still sell to Zap-O-Mat

In reply to UKC Gear:

"It comes complete with a screwgate karabiner which is designed to be used with the device, and the device should always be used with this karabiner."

Show stopper! Why must the manufacturer supplied 'biner always be used? Is it unsafe with any other, ordinary, rated screw-gate?

I consider the omission of a drop-test to be a flaw in this review. I have seen what a gri-gri can do to a rope (and its sheath) when shock loaded. What will this device do?

What about ascending? A gri-gri (or Reverso, in fact, if your ropes are skinny enough) can be paired with a prussic (for trad. climbers) or a single jumar (for those who carry them) to make a moderately efficient ascension system - probably only beaten by a proper double-jumar setup. How does this compare?

Who are "Climbing Technology"? What's their 'street cred'? What else have they made?

In reply to Xharlie:


If you click on the link under "Climbing Technology" in the second line of the review you'll find 7 other UKC reviews featuring or about CT products plus more product announcements and the like.

They've been selling in the UK for at least five years now and are well known in Europe - surprised you haven't heard of them.

In reply to Xharlie:


The way the device works means that you need a krab of a specific thickness since the krab is an integral part of the breaking system. Another krab that was the same width would work, but you are better off using the one that comes with the device since you then know it is the correct width.

Although I haven't tried it, I suspect that a thin diameter krab would not break enough, and one that was too thick would jam up all the time.

Alan

In reply to Xharlie:


Why is it that some climbers reckon that outdoor companies are "out to get them"? The reason they supply the special carabiner is because the karabiner is loaded in basically the same spot, intensifying wear at that point. The supplied karabiner is hardcoated (not hard anodised) to help prevent excessive and accelerated wear of the crab, thus protecting your rope and your wallet. They do think about these things you know...


Not desperately good. You can do it like the reverso in autolocking guide mode, but not really in autolocking belay mode like the grigri. It works, but then you carry atleast two prussiks for self rescue anyway right?


They been in the industry for years making climbing gear in their factory in Italy for many other climbing companies. How about you look at the item and decide whether it suits what you want it to do rather than checking their street cred out? You reckon that just because you've never heard of them they're crap? I reckon we could all name a few companies that you've never heard of that make great gear...

In reply to Xharlie:


What's that, then?

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:


I use my Click Up with a non-regulation Krab and it works fine. I think the key thing is that it needs to have a circular profile.

In reply to Xharlie:






There were problems using other karabiners, specifically that they would prevent the Up locking or braking at all and for good reason they supply them as a set. With some other HMS karabiners it works but you need to be sure it doesn´t rotate hence the clip on the CT one. Something like a DMM belay master for example will prevent the Up working. The Alpine Smart is the same but all of this type of device are more or less karabiner sensitive, personally I also find this is a downside but it´s fairly unavoidable when the karabiner is part of the braking mechanism, the TRE Sirius avoided this which is one of it´s plus points.

I´ve never seen any interesting damage to the rope with a GriGri 1 and I´ve overloaded one hundreds of times, even to the extent that the whole thing bent and finally the rope broke elsewhere when I put a stopper knot in to stop the slip which normally occurs. I use a GriGri to hold the rope on one of my pull testers and they have also been used as a rope retainer with a stopper knot in one of the most extensive tests ever done drop-testing belay devices to destruction, it survived no problem.
CT are an offshoot from another extremely well known company and have an excellent reputation amongst those who know the climbing hardware industry.

In reply to mike kann:

Thanks mike, you answered my questions.

Don't misunderstand - I wasn't trying to say Climbing Technology are crap. I was asking a question that wasn't covered by the review, just like the utility of the devices as an ascender and the consequences of using the wrong 'biner.

In reply to Xharlie:

Still interested to know what rope damage you've seen that you attribute to a Grigri.

In reply to jon:

Memory makes a poor reference so I spent some time googling for a citeable one to sheath damage caused by a grigri and can't find any. It must have been another mechanically assisted device that I observed.

I apologise for including unsubstantiated rubbish in my comments.

In reply to Xharlie:

Fair enough... must be a bad hair day for me <looks in mirror and remembers every day is a bad hair day>

In reply to jon:


I've damaged ropes with a grigri. Rapping too fast. My fault as the instructions warn against long fast taps. Result is a glazed rope. So not fatal.

In reply to David Coley:

That's understandable and as you say, your fault. I can imagine some other devices doing the same. It was his claim that the Grigri damaged the rope 'when shock loaded' (whatever that means)that interested me. I think often unsubstantiated claims on the internet become internet lore and are potentially damaging to manufacturers.

In reply to jon:

The present review is weak in content and late in the game.

If anyone is interested in substantially more in-depth information about the Alpine Up, with considerable subthemes of the Mammut Alpine Smart and Grigri, then have a look at the extended discussion (to which Jim was a major and by far the most knowledgeable contributor) on Mountain Project, http://www.mountainproject.com/v/alpine-up/108538610 . This was five months ago.

My personal take is that the Alpine Up is the best device out there for half-rope belaying (single and multipitch), meaning among other things that it is better than the Alpine Smart and Mega Jul. By half-rope belaying I mean the process of independently handling a pair of half ropes, with the possibility at any moment that one might have to be taken in while the other is being paid out.

In reply to rgold:

I haven't tried the smart, but I would definitely rate the Ups performance as light years Ahead of the Mega Jul. A dire piece of kit (add alternate letters to kit if you like)...