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PRODUCT NEWS: Cocoon Sleep Accessories - three of the best!

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 UKC/UKH Gear 17 Jun 2019

Three sleep accessories from Cocoon for the best nights sleep.

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9
 PPP 17 Jun 2019
In reply to UKC/UKH Gear:

> Adds up to 5.3 degrees C to the temperature rating of your sleeping bag.

It looks like it's what Cocoon claims, but it's just an astronomically high number to me.

 Timmd 17 Jun 2019
In reply to UKC/UKH Gear:

Are Cocoon aware of how elephants are 'broken-in' by humans to enable humans to be able to ride them?  

1
 Sl@te Head 17 Jun 2019
In reply to Timmd:

They are really naive to show images of animal cruelty like that, I wouldn't buy any of their products having seen it. UKC should seriously consider refusing to publish such photos and should feedback this to Cocoon...

Deadeye 17 Jun 2019
In reply to PPP:

> > Adds up to 5.3 degrees C to the temperature rating of your sleeping bag.

> It looks like it's what Cocoon claims, but it's just an astronomically high number to me.


And a spurious degree of specificity!

 Timmd 17 Jun 2019
In reply to Sl@te Head:

> They are really naive to show images of animal cruelty like that, I wouldn't buy any of their products having seen it. UKC should seriously consider refusing to publish such photos and should feedback this to Cocoon...

Yes, the elephant's spirits are broken by harsh treatment until they eventually give up. We don't know what it is which we don't know, though, so long as Cocoon learn about how elephants are treated and use that knowledge when choosing pictures that's good enough for me.

Post edited at 12:37
 Guy Hurst 17 Jun 2019
In reply to PPP:

An inexperienced user acting on the basis of this figure is likely to experience some very cold and restless nights.

 Ramon Marin 17 Jun 2019
In reply to UKC/UKH Gear:

this is pretty awful

 ericinbristol 17 Jun 2019
In reply to UKC/UKH Gear:

What a shitty advert showing an elephant being treated like some kind of object for human pleasure with no thought to how it is an intelligent sentient social animal. This kind of stuff is part of the picture of why  the world is in a period of mass extinction and wildlife habitat loss. "Elephant numbers have dropped by 62% over the last decade, and they could be mostly extinct by the end of the next decade." http://worldelephantday.org/about/elephants

I am going to post this message here and also use the '!Report' facility. 

Post edited at 13:49
 99ster 17 Jun 2019
In reply to ericinbristol:

And it features on the home page of UKC as well.  This is simply unacceptable.

 PPP 17 Jun 2019
In reply to Deadeye:

> And a spurious degree of specificity!

I was curious enough to see where that figure is coming from as I was sure it wasn't UKC who came up with it. They do have more liners with some very specific figures on their website as well, so I shot them an email. I got a reply from them:

> the temperature tests are performed by an independent laboratory. They take place in a cold chamber. The temperature rating of a sleeping bag is tested with and without liner. The difference is what we call the „added temperature“ – the temperature the liner adds to the temperature rating of the sleeping bag.

I could ask them what standard it conforms to as they don't quote one and I am not sure whether EN13537 considers sleeping bag liners. 


Snake oil? I bet. 

 tjdodd 17 Jun 2019
In reply to ericinbristol:

Interesting article from the BBC (back in 2017) about elephant tourism

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-40501667

 ericinbristol 17 Jun 2019
In reply to tjdodd:

Wow. How awful:

"Millions of people want selfies riding elephants, or washing them, or patting their trunks. But according to a study carried out by World Animal Protection (WAP) across Asia this is helping to fuel a rise in elephants captured from the wild and kept for entertainment. The number in Thailand has increased by almost a third over the last five years. 

WAP researchers assessed almost 3,000 elephants and found that more than three quarters were living in "severely cruel" conditions. Many were bound with chains less than 3m long and were forced to stand on concrete floors close to loud roads, crowds and music.

Some 160 travel companies have already committed to stop selling tickets to or promoting venues offering elephant rides and shows. In 2016, TripAdvisor announced that it would end the sale of tickets for wildlife experiences where tourists come in to direct contact with wild animals, including elephant riding.

Dr Jan Schmidt-Burbach, Global Wildlife and veterinary adviser at World Animal Protection (WAP), said: "The cruel trend of elephants used for rides and shows is growing - we want tourists to know that many of these elephants are taken from their mothers as babies, forced to endure harsh training and suffer poor living conditions throughout their life."

Time that UKC and Cocoon got up to speed on this.

 Theo Moore 17 Jun 2019
In reply to ericinbristol:

Hi all, thanks for the comments - we've removed the elephant picture and I have contacted Cocoon for their response about this and the temperature stats. 

Animal cruelty is abhorrent and we would never want to condone it at UKC.

Post edited at 14:45
 ericinbristol 17 Jun 2019
In reply to Theo Moore:

Great, swift reply and action Theo - good job

 Sl@te Head 17 Jun 2019
In reply to Theo Moore:

Thanks for your prompt action in removing and responding to this, hopefully you sent a strong message to them. It would be interesting to read their response...

Post edited at 15:11
 First Ascent 17 Jun 2019
In reply to Theo Moore:

Hi everybody - thanks for the comments - quite right it was a poor choice of image. Many apologies for any offence caused, we certainly do not condone any form of animal cruelty.

Thanks to Theo for helping us update the photo.

 First Ascent 17 Jun 2019
In reply to Deadeye:

The Cocoon liners were tested independently at the large US retailer REI's Quality Assurance Laboratory.

Our understanding is that the test is done in a properly controlled laboratory environment, measuring the heat loss from heated mannequins placed inside the liners. 

1
Deadeye 17 Jun 2019
In reply to First Ascent:

> The Cocoon liners were tested independently at the large US retailer REI's Quality Assurance Laboratory.

> Our understanding is that the test is done in a properly controlled laboratory environment, measuring the heat loss from heated mannequins placed inside the liners. 


Fantastic.  Point me at the data please.

 PPP 17 Jun 2019
In reply to Deadeye:

I can give you some data! 

https://www.rei.com/product/850427/cocoon-silk-mummy-liner

> Liner protects and keeps your sleeping bag clean, and can add up to 5°F to the temperature rating of your sleeping bag

> Added Warmth (C) Up to 2.8 degrees

https://www.cocoon.at/en/service/temperature-chart/

> silk, added temperature: +5.3 °C

Some more data points in https://www.random.org/

 leon 1 17 Jun 2019
In reply to PPP:  Maybe it went like this...  +2.8 C is 37.4F  (or +5.4 degrees F above freezing point)

Perhaps its a jumbled conversion between Centigrade, Fahrenheit and freezing point ? More likely is that I just cant do my sums or understand science ....

Post edited at 20:50
Deadeye 17 Jun 2019
In reply to PPP:

> I can give you some data! 

> > Liner protects and keeps your sleeping bag clean, and can add up to 5°F to the temperature rating of your sleeping bag

> > silk, added temperature: +5.3 °C

> Some more data points in https://www.random.org/

I think you and I might disagree about what constitutes data and how that's different to "claim".

I have a website that says my special socks add 15oC warmth to the rating of any sleeping bag... you see the problem here (apart form that nobody in their right mind would want to wear my socks)?  So, no, another website claiming that their liners are the mutt's nuts does not evidence make.

http://www.autexrj.com/cms/zalaczone_pliki/5-06-3.pdf

Post edited at 21:29
 PPP 17 Jun 2019
In reply to leon 1:

You're right, the conversion is correct. The Celsius/Fahrenheit difference is linear, it's just shifted by 32 and multiplied by 9/5. That is, if you increase by 2.8°C, the temperature in Fahrenheit will increase by 5°F no matter what the ambient temperature is. 

For example: (5°C × 9/5) + 32 = 41°F

What I meant was that First Ascent Online claim Cocoon used REI as an independent tester, but then description in the REI page does not match what they have tested? 

 PPP 17 Jun 2019
In reply to Deadeye:

Sorry, I hoped my tongue in cheek with a line to Random.org was a decent enough clue I wasn't serious! 

If REI as both a tester and a retailer cannot agree on the figures, then I don't know I would want to see the test and the data associated to it. 

Deadeye 17 Jun 2019
In reply to PPP:

Ah-ha!  Gotcha.  No worries!

 PPP 17 Jun 2019
In reply to Deadeye:

I'm still curious as to how the number was achieved. Just having an air gap between sleeping bag and the liner might explain it. 

I played around the PHD sleeping bag maker and the 5C difference is roughly (just over) 100g of 900FP down. Surely a 110g sleeping bag liner cannot be as efficient as 100g of high quality down? 

Deadeye 17 Jun 2019
In reply to PPP

> I played around the PHD sleeping bag maker and the 5C difference is roughly (just over) 100g of 900FP down. Surely a 110g sleeping bag liner cannot be as efficient as 100g of high quality down? 

No, it can't. The claim is bollox

 Timmd 18 Jun 2019
In reply to tjdodd:

> Interesting article from the BBC (back in 2017) about elephant tourism

There is more here. I haven't read it, but it's possibly distressing reading for some people.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/06/17/elephants-used-tourist-rides-screamed-agony-...

The reality behind the docile elephants is that they're kept afraid of humans. 

Post edited at 13:00

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