UKC

I've had offsets for ages but generally don't use them a lot. I've found depending on who you ask they are either rubbish or the best type of nut. But what rock types do people generally take them on? 

Where I find they fit well in granite and tremadog dolerite but I really don't find that many placements on other rock types.

In reply to dinodinosaur:

I am more supicious of a well placed offset than a regular nut. They do need a bit of extra care to place. I have found they are pretty good at gogarth and Holyhead mt. also pretty good at tremadog. 

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Whilst mine are the original HB ones they fit really well in Snowdonia mountain rhyolite. Suprised by what you say; I am in the "they are the best type of nut" camp.

In reply to JimmAwelon:

Like wise they seem to place in Lochaber Ryholite really well and with very limited experience they went well in Ardnamurchan gabbro. I think perhaps you might get an 'eye' for a normal placement and perhaps pass over alternatives? It definitely makes sense that there would be types of rock they suit and don't suit though

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Seem to work well in lakes rhyolite, bit of a pattern emerging perhaps.

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Limestone... dog doughnuts.

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Quarried grit likes them..

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Lakes Rhyolite, Andesite, and Granite all swallow the offsets 

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Its interesting whether this is a thing or if its a kind of pareidolia i.e. it feels like they are better. I suppose logic would say that rock that fractures as irregular cracks or has cracks that erode unevenly producing high and low spots would favour offsets but from the comments so far it seems that is less consistent? I've only ever used rocks (classic) for as long as they have existed and never really felt compelled to carry something other than that, by the time other more options appeared on the market i could get pretty much any placement i deserved...it may be that more experience in reading more subtle placements  means you know and find placements that others miss but can get or get easier with a different kind of pro. Be in interested to hear the design briefs for offsets or other nuts come to that.

In reply to dinodinosaur:

I have a set but never really got on with them, although as mentioned above maybe that’s because I just don’t have an eye for the placements. Strangely most of the crag swag nuts I find tend to be DMM offsets, they seem to be more prone to catching and getting stuck than normal nuts (but often ‘stuck’ in a way you wouldn’t want to fall on them).

I also have a set of WC super light rocks which I instantly got on with. They’re a really different shape from normal rocks and seem to fit in placements where nothing else will go. Definitely feel like they are cheating on a few pitches where there’s no other gear, particularly good on schist and thin granite seams.

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Wye Valley and Somerset limestone. 

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Used a mates set on Avon limestone, bought a set shortly after

In reply to dinodinosaur:

I would say they can work in most places, similar to a normal but. I would think of it as a different shape that gives a bit more versatility. I find they place really well and can get good contact where the normal equivalent piece cannot. It's often the same the other way round. There are just some slots where they fit better. I would think of it as a second set of nuts, where I would personally go for a different brand just to make sure I have stuff that is slightly a different geometry as it may just fit better into an awkward spot.

In reply to dinodinosaur:

They fit offset cracks really well.  

Seriously though, they are good just bought a set, having rescued a few from the crag last year. They are an additional set of wires, I wouldn't buy them over a set of normal nuts if I had none.

Offsets tend to get stuck, it is how I discovered them. Smiley Facey Gems for a new generation? 

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Great on Pembroke limestone too. I reckon the red DMM offset is my most placed piece of gear.

In reply to CMcBain:

I started a thread a few years back asking about what I should add to my winter rack. The two most popular suggestions were a pecker and offsets. The pecker has earned its keep but I've hardly ever used the offsets and my regular winter partner feels the same to the extent that they're probably not worth the extra weight.

I carry a set of rocks and a set of wallnuts and I find the greater taper on the wallnuts offers options the rocks don't but sometimes the rocks sit better. The offsets didn't seem to offer much in addition to that so I wonder if lots of those who like them are using them alongside rocks rather than wallnuts?

In reply to Ciro:

Bullshit.

The blue offset goes everywhere.

But yes - climbing at pembroke I take a full rack of offsets, a full rack of wallnuts, and imps and brass offsets.

The large DMM offsets generally disappear before any of the others have even started.

In reply to dinodinosaur: Where you have eroded and consequently slightly eroded cracks, so gently weathered  gneiss and granite for me

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Anywhere there aren't perfectly parallel cracks. I.e. EVERYWHERE! 

In reply to dinodinosaur:

I use offsets more than regular nuts to the point where I've doubled my set up. 

This might end up being quite crag specific due to the shape nature of rock however.

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Does anyone on here seriously think that a good rack of micro wires need not have offsets??

I think not having offsets in the micro range is leaving a serious gap in your protection on loads of route from E1 up.... surely?

In reply to innes:

Interesting discussion throughout, but to respond to your particular query...  I have never carried offsets, though some partners have.  Climbed plenty at E3 and E4, with an occasional E5 and (as with some above) haven't noticed a particular 'gap' in my protection possibilities.  I guess if you carry them and get used to placing them, they will replace normal rocks / wallnuts in many places?  Might get some to try!

In reply to Derek Furze:

People climbed pretty hard routes before cams were invented too

In reply to PaulJepson:

.... and now we even have offset cams to play with!  Haven't got any of those either.

In reply to Derek Furze:

I find that protecting thin cracks (on any rock type) is where having the option of placing an offset nut makes a really very obvious difference/improvement in many placements....  I'm thinking of the DMM brass offsets in the mid to larger sizes, which actually is the equivalent to a #3 rock/wallnut, so not even that 'micro' in size.  

I still find offsets useful in larger sizes (esp. on granite) but, in general, larger placements seem much more forgiving of nut geometries - rocks, wallnuts, take your pick.  It's seems to me that its at the smaller end of the scale where subtle differences start to be more and more important.  

So my answer to the OP is - offsets go in small placements (sometimes!)

In reply to dinodinosaur:

I've got a set of WC superlight offsets, and find they often fit in shallow/awkward/flared granite and limestone placements where other wires would just fall out. 

I really rate them, as they can turn otherwise necky or scary climbing into something much more amendable.

Not as easy to place and don't suit all rock types (no replacement for full set of Wallnuts) but as they are so light can carry them as a second set without really noticing the weight on long trad routes. 

In reply to innes:

Again - interesting... I shall definitely get some to try.

In reply to dinodinosaur:

slate and limestone

In reply to dinodinosaur:

I find myself having to save my offsets and would probably opt to take offsets over normal wires. What I usually do is have a mix.

I find that offsets just go in more cracks. You can usually place an offset into a crack a wire would go into, but you can't place a normal wire into an offset crack.

I think one of the reasons offsets seem to go everywhere is down to the way you typically place wires. In a tapering crack you do not typically have the wire placed plum vertical, but at 20 to 40 degrees angle coming out of the crack. The nature of the taper on offsets I find just suits placing them with a slight angle over normal wires.

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but any time I run into someone who's not used offsets I tell them they must go get a set immediately. Everyone that's then tried them has been a total convert. That's my experiance anyway!

All hail the gold offset!

In reply to neuromancer:

Pretty much my nut rack for the gneiss here, but I also carry the smallest 3 tricams (white, black and pink) on the same krab as the micros.  Wherever my thumb goes the pink tricam does, it's a really good 'get you out of trouble' bit of gear.  Protection choice is all about maximising your options, and a rack like we use has many options.

In reply to Toerag:

Tricams just give you a different sort of option. I mean most of the places a nut will go, so will an offset or vice versa but tri cams will go when nothing else does and often in types of routes that have very little other options. 

In reply to kylos8048:

Oi less of this lot, you perverts. This is a thread for offsets!

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

Yeah, I’m a big fan of offsets and seem to place them on almost every trad pitch that I lead. That said, I’ve found placements that look bomber can, sometimes, only be held in by the widest edge of the nut, so care is required. 

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Brilliant at Tremadog and in the Lakes, just a nice alternative shape for the odd placement they sit better in elsewhere.

jk

In reply to PaulJepson:

Let me tell you about my ball nuts....

In reply to dinodinosaur:

A well placed nut is a well placed nut, regardless of the shape? 

In reply to Martin McKenna - Rockfax:

Actually I rescind my statement about the blue and red offset. The gold one is money.

Only two pieces of gear get placed more often. The Blue wallnut and the no3 blue C4.

In reply to dinodinosaur:

I found them really handy on prtry Much and rock type, i have a knack for finding reverse placements for them (narrow side facing out), you partner won't thank you for placing them like this though.

In reply to Presley Whippet:

I've been using offsets for almost 30 years - they were the first nuts I bought. I still have most of the originals because I don't think I've lost one - I had one one spectra, perhaps that got stuck, but none of the wired ones.

In reply to Tigger:

The ultimate is the corner with a crack in both walls making a placement with an 'arete' on either side and at the back which grips the nut on three sides

In reply to Toerag:

That's the exact placement i was refering to! Just couldn't figure how to describe it. The initial corner of Kafoolalem is like that, my partner broke his nut tool trying to bash the offsets out with a rock.