/ DMM renegade 2 leg loops

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CurlyStevo - on 05 Jul 2014
On the leg loops the first thing the excess leg webbing goes through is a red loop of webbing rather than an elastic. Does anyone know why this is there?

I've 'think' I've heard it's for attaching a leg loop prussic although i see no mention of that anywhere. It seems odd if has no other function than retaining the strap that it's not elastic as this would work better for that purpose!

needvert on 05 Jul 2014 - [
In reply to CurlyStevo:

My wild country men's vision is the same. Interesting question.
steveb2006 - on 05 Jul 2014
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Yes it is a bit odd - I use it for attaching the small 'crab' on one of those nut key bungee cords as its too small to clip to gear loops easily. You could use it for a crab for a leg loop prussic too - but just as easy to use the leg loop itself for this purpose.

Also, regarding the leg loop straps, I found the sewn back ends would stick thru the wire wire gates of crabs / extenders on my harness making them really awkward to separate when climbing. So I have cut off these sewn back ends and just heat sealed the cut ends. Not had this happen on other harnesses (had many over the years)
Post edited at 10:13
Luke Brooks - on 05 Jul 2014
In reply to CurlyStevo:

It's for attaching a prusik. Keeps it in a much better position than just on the leg loop.
CurlyStevo - on 05 Jul 2014
In reply to Luke Brooks:
Do you have any more info about this? Where did you hear / read that this loop is intended for this purpose?
Post edited at 10:26
CurlyStevo - on 05 Jul 2014
In reply to steveb2006:
Although I do indeed sometimes use my legloop to attach a prussic - a safety statement was issued a while back about this when using ziplock buckles as they can open up. I've heard it's better to do it all from your belay loop anyway as if you pass out when abbing your leg often rises and then the prussic slips when it pushes against the belay plate.

I suspect the sewn back ends are partially a safety feature to stop the buckle un-threading it's self during use. But yes I have also found this slightly annoying on occasion too.
Post edited at 10:46
Firestarter on 05 Jul 2014

The above link states the below! Basically that little loop is not for your Prusik.

The legloops are also made using 5mm foam inserts and were very comfortable. There was a little adjustment from the elasticated rear strips. These detached with a small clip buckle and were fine to use without gloves on but very fiddly with them one, to be fair though I’ve never come across a harness that has this issue sorted. They adjusted very smoothly with an auto lock buckle and the excess tape was tidied away through a webbed and elasticated loop. The loop at the fronts help tuck away the excess webbing but it is very import to know that this isn’t a loop for a carabiner, the designers have extended the buckle away from the webbing junction so the any carabiner used for abseiling sits above the buckle. This ensure the correct loading and reduces the chances of accidental opening when attaching a prusick back to the leg loop.
CurlyStevo - on 05 Jul 2014
In reply to Firestarter:

Interesting - I wonder if that review got there info from DMM? it seems likely.

I don't think the loop looks reinforced enough if DMM really did expect it to be used for abseiling prussic purposes and I also expect they would have mentioned it on their website.
Firestarter on 05 Jul 2014
In reply to CurlyStevo:

You'ld have thought so wouldn't you? Drop them a line maybe for a definitive answer - in my experience they have always been really helpful.
Martin W on 06 Jul 2014
In reply to Firestarter:

> The loop at the fronts help tuck away the excess webbing

These loops are also present on my DMM Maverick harness which does not have adjustable leg loops, and thus doesn't have any excess webbing to tuck away.

I don't believe the loops in question are actually intended to serve any functional purpose when the harness is in use. I reckon they're there for constructional reasons: it allows the edge binding on the padded part of the leg loop to be made from a single length of tape which loops at each end and is sewn together at the point where the rear supporting tape attaches. It saves having to put a neat, non-fraying finish on four ends of binding tape.

So they're not designed to be take any significant load, and it seems likely that using them for such a purpose would be (a) unsafe, and (b) likely to damage the edge finish of the padded part of the leg loop. There's nothing to stop you making use of them for other purposes which wouldn't be expected to impose a significant load, such as tucking away the loose end of the leg loop adjustment webbing on a harness which has that feature.
Firestarter on 06 Jul 2014
In reply to Martin W:

Taken from the review (link included in post above). I don't own one of these harnesses (though when mine's due a replacement they look pretty good). I think the important thing, as you say, is that they're not designed to be loadbearing.

How do you like your Maverick - any good?
Martin W on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to Firestarter: I like my Maverick fine. I probably don't need seven gear loops, and truth be told I still get a bit confused trying to remember what gear's on which loop. But it's not a major issue.

I'm less happy that there's no Maverick 2 in their current line-up - DMM seem to have given up on producing harnesses with fixed leg loops. When it comes time to replace the Maverick I'll need to think hard about whether I can be bothered with adjustable leg loops if I choose to stick with DMM, or look to another manufacturer.
andrewmc - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to CurlyStevo:

It does seem to make it easy to pull the leg loop tighter - you can pull the end at 180 degrees to where you would have to pull otherwise and it works quite nicely, although I suspect this is not the reason it is there. On my older Renegade 1 there was a matching pair of loops on each leg loop that the webbing did not go through, so I agree with Martin W that they are probably for constructional purposes.

Chances are it is actually strong enough to hold your brake prussik, as it shouldn't be taking that much load, although I am certainly not recommending it!

It should be pointed out though that a) a prussik is obviously not rated as it is in no way guaranteed to grip, b) the leg loops are not individually rated (the harness must hold 10kN on the waistband alone and 15kN all together).
Cold Mountain Kit - on 13 Jul 2014
In reply to Martin W:

Maverick 2 will be available spring 2015. Saw it at the outdoor show in Friedrichshafen along with three other brand new harnesses and their new belay devices. All looking very nice.
Martin W on 13 Jul 2014
In reply to Cold Mountain Kit: Thanks for that info - sounds promising. Still not sure, though, why it takes so long to produce a fixed leg-loop version of a harness which has been out for 12 months already! Maybe the Maverick 2 is going to be very different.

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