/ Do your kids climb? Can you help with this survey please?

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ti_pin_man - on 29 Nov 2012
Hi, its survey day today but this one is for parents with kids that climb. Please, if your little ones climb, can you complete both short surveys for me?

It would help me greatly if you can as I'm slowly getting some climbing shorts made for my daughter and friends and if there is enough interest I might market them early next year.

Please spread the word to friends if you can who's kids climb and ask them to complete the surveys too. The more info I have I'll know if this might work! Thanks all.

Joe and Amelia
ti_pin_man - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to ti_pin_man: Cool, starting to get a few responses, great all those who completed it, please do both if you can as the second has some important questions... I had to limit the surveys to 10 questions under the 'free use' of survey monkey, thus the two surveys. Thanks.
the sheep - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to ti_pin_man:
Have replied, answering the questions on price I have gone for the max price that I would be prepared to shell out for the goods on the basis that the kids shoot up quickly and spending more would be prohibitive. This is not to say that items of clothing with a full technical spec may worth more or that others would pay more. There is just a short time period where kids will fit into clothes so purchasing high end clothing to me seems pointless.
Hope this helps and best of luck.
yesbutnobutyesbut - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to ti_pin_man: Prana did a range of Kids clothing a few years ago. It lasted one season. That probably tells you something!
winhill - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to ti_pin_man:

Did you mean washing at low temperatures, as is the fashion these days or was at high temperatures in case they get scared and have an 'accident'?

I put it lowest cos I've never bought something on the basis it can be boiled, apart from eggs.
ti_pin_man - on 29 Nov 2012
Both, and thats exactly why I'm interested in the replies, this info will help shape what me and Amelia do with these. I've most certainly had the feedback about price and on just how long the clothes get used and will add it into the mix. Its looking a real balance between quality features/funky design versus price/longevity.
ti_pin_man - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to winhill: lol, boiled wasnt the term I was using but as these are for our little devils then I was considering that some parents might want to hot wash them to get rid of chocolate stains, pen marks and the like! The aim is about a 40% wash to not run colour or shrink.
Richard Wilson - on 29 Nov 2012
I have done the first one but not the second.

Mainly due to the fact that kids dont need all those features & a £5 to £10 pair of leggings (for the girls)(especially the newer ones with printed patterns on) or joggers for the boys meets all their needs & fulfils the style requirements.
ti_pin_man - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to Richard Wilson:

Richard, my little girl and her climbing buddies disagree, they want their own gear, but I thank you for filling in what you could, everybodies veiw is of interest. Thanks.
Matt Reed on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to ti_pin_man: I tried to complete the survey but my connection was slow and timed out. Hope this helps - I have 3 boys aged 10 to 14. All boulder and rope climb, mainly outdoors although the eldest does climb indoors. They wear high street non specialist jeans, joggers or shorts. For winter stuff they have ski pants (trespass I think). They'll climb in anything and aren't fussed what they wear. Good luck!
ti_pin_man - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to MR1969: thx!
ti_pin_man - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to ti_pin_man:
A gentle bump for the evening
ti_pin_man - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to ti_pin_man:
A cheeky second bump
tuath on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut: I bowed to pressure & bought a pair of the Prana kids shorts for £30 about 4 years ago. On to the second child wearing them now and they've both loved them, wear them indoors and out. I was reluctant to spend £30 on shorts at the time but they've worked out good value with the use they've had- sorry not to be able to get another pair now but can see that there wouldn't exactly have been a lot of volume in sales for Prana in them
Carolyn - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to ti_pin_man:

Have done it, and stuck a note in the email box as there was no space for extra comments on the second one ;-)

For us, rather than plain elastic waist, the elastic/buttons combination you get in lots of kids clothes would be best, as my 2 are almost always too skinny on the waist for the size they need in leg length, even if it's elasticated. Realise this doesn't necessarily work too well under a sit harness, but I'd reckon it'd be fine for smaller kids in a full body harness.
ti_pin_man - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to tuath: spot on, exactly what we were thinking. Prana probably saw too little profit in small numbers and it is quite a niche but maybe a limited edition run would be an answer. If you added your email to the survey I'll email out results on the prototype tests, the shorts should be with me dec 13th and with testers for xmas. I'm also setting up a facebook page for anybody interested in following their development, a search for MoJoe climbing should find it.

In reply to Carolyn: no worries, I'll read all the comments ! The draw cord waiste when combined with an elasticated waiste was looking to fulfill this need. Kids come in all sorts of shapes and sizes!

flopsicle - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to ti_pin_man:I've filled it in but doubt I'm very typical. I car boot every week so most clothes are bought for pennies, good outdoor gear for under £5.

I don't get the shorts thing, can't see the advantage over leggings but longer trousers are different. It bugs me that good outdoor kit isn't that easy to get for a girl and breathable, wearable trousers that had any level of water repellance (sp??) would probably get me to fork out normal human being prices!
ti_pin_man - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to flopsicle: thanks for doing the survey. My girl finds shorts let her feel more flexible below the knee... But it's a personal preference thing and as the winter arrives, even at indoor walls she likes more material coverage and at least 3/4 length. It can help protect knee skin too but ultimately horses for courses and very much down to personal preferences. The survey results have made interesting reading. Thanks for filling it in!

ti_pin_man - on 02 Dec 2012
In reply to ti_pin_man: a bump for the weekend crew
iksander on 03 Dec 2012
In reply to ti_pin_man: How about offering a buy-back option and sell those secondhand? Especially makes sense for relatively expensive kids wear that will probably get outgrown before it wears out, plus environmentally sound too
Carolyn - on 03 Dec 2012
In reply to ti_pin_man:
> In reply to Carolyn: no worries, I'll read all the comments ! The draw cord waiste when combined with an elasticated waiste was looking to fulfill this need

I've found drawcords pretty useless at holding up trousers, but very effective at making it impossible for them to go to the loo.......
Heike - on 03 Dec 2012
In reply to ti_pin_man:
Hi, I didn't fill in the survey as I wouldn't spend any money on specialist climbing gear for my little climber. They grow out of the stuff so quickly, I think some 5 pound jogging bottoms or jeans from Asda or Sainsbury do the trick! But that's just my opinion I am sure there are loads of people with heaps of cash out there who would spend that sort of money. Good luck!
ti_pin_man - on 03 Dec 2012
Iksander: isn't that what eBay is for?

Carolyn: yep. I get that. I find the thicker draw cords help but even then sometimes get knotted.

All price comments are also, of course noted and we're certainly not pricing these for Rolls Royce parents! .
Jus - on 03 Dec 2012
In reply to ti_pin_man: survey completed
ti_pin_man - on 03 Dec 2012
In reply to Jus: hooray! Thanks. Eta for prototypes is still 13 th dec! Then a quality check and in the post! .

All, still thanks for the survey completion, it's appreciated if you can do both for me as all the replies add more and more to the picture I'm getting for kids gear!
ti_pin_man - on 04 Dec 2012
In reply to ti_pin_man: if anybody else is interested in joining our development mailing list, either send me an email through here or join the small group I created for us on facebook. Search for MoJoe Climbing and you should find us.

Joe and Amelia
iksander on 04 Dec 2012
In reply to ti_pin_man: > isn't that what eBay is for?

Would you really prefer your customers to buy from the open market on ebay and compare your products and prices to the alternatives there? If plan to compete solely on price and features for a new product you're on to a loser unless you can leverage an existing low cost manufacturing and marketing infrastructure.

On the other hand if you're aiming for higher margins you'll need a) deep pockets to subsidise you until you've built your reputation and b) a way to differentiate yourself from cheap 'n cheerful "disposable" clothes.

This is assuming that you actually want to make any money at it.

Presumably you've seen Patagonia's common threads program? Maybe if you could own a slice of the secondhand market you get to build your brand and loyalty from thankful parents who don't have to shell out for brand new stuff everytime junior has a growth spurt.

George Fisher also do a junior boot exchange based on the same idea - kids grow out of expensive stuff. If you can take some of that risk out for parents, they'll come back to you - vs buying cheap crap that will end up in landfill when it's outgrwon.

Just a thought...
ti_pin_man - on 04 Dec 2012
In reply to iksander: it is a lovely idea and I do appreciate it... when I replied my tongue was firmly in my cheek... No offence meant.

As things stand we're a seed of an idea, and to continue the analogy, we're trying to germinate the seed which is more difficult than I imagined but still something I want to do for my daughter. If I can get this seed into a sapling then I will most certainly want ideas like yours, but for now I have to concentrate on feeding the seed and paying for the seed with my other day job!

Keep the ideas coming, I'm logging them!
ti_pin_man - on 06 Dec 2012
In reply to ti_pin_man: in case anybody else wants to follow our little kids gear project:!/groups/116626665167803/

Joe and Amelia x
ti_pin_man - on 12 Dec 2012
As some of you have obviously twigged, the plan was originally to get some climbing legwear made for my daughter. This then led to interest from her friends she climbs with so I thought I'd make some for them too and from there I wondered if maybe other would be interested and hence the questionaire. Thanks again to all of you who filled it in, we nearly had a 100 responses, brilliant.

The survey showed me which features you think would be important in climbing gear for kids and helped indicate how many might be interested in such a product. Some didnt think they would be, which is fair enough, but many thought they'd be interested depending on the price and the features. Great feedback.

This then led me to slightly alter the design of the ones I was getting made for Amelia and also helped build up a small team of testers, our Skunkworks team!

The great news is that today I spoke to the manufacturers and the prototypes will be with me tomorrow and amelia and her best friend will be using them this coming weekend. Those of you who wanted to be involved in the testing should get their prototypes next week, xmas post dependant.

If anybody else might be interested in following the development of this little idea, make sure you connect with our little facebook page or drop me an email and I'll add you to the email mailing list so you can follow and give input on these. The more the merrier.

Thanks again all of you!
ti_pin_man - on 17 Dec 2012
last Thursday we got a selection of the different prototypes we want to test and amelia and her best friend tried them indoors bouldering this weekend twice. They both preffered the golden broan ones to the pink ones as the leg lengths were wrong on the pinks, I've posted up a few pics and a video of them climbing in them on the MoJoe Climbing facebook page.!/groups/116626665167803/

Well... climbing isnt actually being done much, more playing around on the overhang holds.

Before we send out the samples to the wider team I'm going to shorten the lengths so that they are more test-able and give more freedom of movement at the knee. This might mean posting them out at the end of the week, so they might not be there for Xmas.

joe and amelia xx
krikoman - on 17 Dec 2012
In reply to ti_pin_man: Climibg clothes for kids!! Really? you be asking adults if they want special clothes next. Can't they just wear tracky bottoms or shorts?
ti_pin_man - on 17 Dec 2012
In reply to krikoman: yes, if you read the thread there is interest in this and the survey results say the same. But nobodies forcing you, wear what you wear and keep climbing.

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