UKC

Hi

Anyone got a good source or recommendation for tough elastic bands to use with draws? Thanks.

Castration rings used to be the thing, but the current thinking especially since the tragic death of young Tito Traversa is that it's generally better not to use rubber bands to capture a carabiner on an open sling.

The petzl rubber retainers in 2 sizes are good for dyneema skinny 8mm slings or thicker nylon 

I used bands years ago and they just disintegrated and left a nasty residue on the slings which was off putting

Another vote for Petzl Strings.

Provided it's done properly there's no issue.

Traversa's death was the result of an appalling and avoidable user error: 

https://gearjunkie.com/news/tito-traversa-death-climbing-instructor-sentenc...

Asparagus.

Surely the article although highlighting the fatal issue has got the rubber bands on the wrong end of the QDs? 

Good spot, I hadn't noticed that.

British obviously.

You’re right but isn’t the picture highlighting the fact that in this tragic incident the elastic band was the only thing attaching the karabiner to the sling.

Yes it was.  Bizarrely his 'draws had actually been assembled that way.  But it's possible for it to happen accidentally if the 'captive' carabiner somehow clips through the sling (perhaps while being jiggled about in a rucksack in transit).  Traversa's death kind of crystallised the issue really, particularly as it wasn't at all clear what exactly had happened early on and it seemed more likely to have been the sort of accident that had happened once or twice before than the awful (and baffling) incompetence that it turned out was actually the cause.

It was something that had already been discussed at some length on here following an accident in the slate quarries a few years previously.  Good lord, well over a decade ago now, where does the time go eh?

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rock_talk/slate_quarry_accident_saturday_...
https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2009/04/easter_accident_prompts_safety_vide...

I'm not really interested in getting into a debate about it, just thought it worth a mention.

Yes as I clearly stated in my post.

Packet of O rings from a DIY shop, Wilko etc?

Worth a mention yes but I think the main lesson to take from the tragic accident is to make sure your draws are properly set up not that retainers shouldn't be used at all as you suggested.

Pointing out that error on that photo at the time was the first ever post I made on this forum…

Needless to say I was immediately leapt on with people accusing me of saying all sorts of things which I hadn’t.  Welcome to UKC…

Tragic accident that, a truly awful thing to happen for all concerned. Let’s not go over it all again though, we did at the time.
 

But they can clip through the crab and then become dangerous. Probably very rare and one would think easy to spot, but a chance no the less.

As it's raining here in the Lakes I've just had a play around with that and it would be highly unlikely to happen and very easy to spot. Worth being aware of though.

Quite so, and not so rare that it hasn't caused serious accidents before.

On reflection I should never have mentioned Tito Traversa, it just muddied the waters.  The links I posted above concern an accident some years previously involving a competent and experienced climber whose 'draws were correctly assembled in the first instance taking a ground fall and suffering serious (but fortunately not life-threatening) injuries.

Those links again:
https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rock_talk/slate_quarry_accident_saturday_...
https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2009/04/easter_accident_prompts_safety_vide...

While it undoubtedly is a fairly unlikely occurrence, it clearly is possible for a quickdraw (especially a 'slingdraw') configured in this way to become dangerous and yet not so obviously wrong that it couldn't be missed while racking up and placing it on lead.

It's impossible to get a short, stiff QD to do this but it is extremely easy to do with a sling draw so I never use them on the latter. The longer and floppier the sling the more likely it is to happen.

Al

Just to add, these are for dog bones not alpine draws.

19g draws. The rope side krabs rotate as the stitching isn't close enough to carabiner.

The webbing is ultra thing, and the carabiners microscopic, so I'm not sure the petzl stuff will work

https://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Climbing-Equipment/Rock-Trad-Climbin...

The extra small ones fit 10mm tape.

They are pretty tight on 8mm which is what I use them on 

The sheep castration bands are really cheap on eBay with free postage too

I know it's not the use case you are intending to use the elastic bands for but, as usual, Chris Tan Death Products has you covered;

http://www.kakibusok.plus.com/Equipment/CTDQ2/CTDQ2.htm

<usual laugh follows>

My mind went straight to this when I saw the thread title, too good an opportunity to pass up.

Follow the postman around, they drop some pretty decent ones. I’ve got a pile in the shed waiting for a use!

Snap. I assumed from the thread title that someone had just discovered Chris Tan’s tomfoolery for the first time

Alternative is to wrap the sling with some gear tape.

They decompose quite quickly.

I especially like this line:-

Note 2: You will want to extend this Death Quickdraw as it is very stiff and may lift your gear out.