This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Posted this on F&T review site a few weeks back, never thought anything of it, was just an honest response to a boot they had on sale:
"Bought these boots last winter in the sale then (they seem to be constantly on sale, makes me wonder if they ever were full price). Cannot stress enough how disappointed with these boots I was. On the first proper day out I used them, the sole unit became detached at the heel and I had to strap up with tape for the rest of the walk.
After this, I fixed them up only for the front of the sole unit to start coming apart.
They were not waterproof from the start - a 2 minute walk through wet grass soaked my feet to the bone.
Cannot recommend these boots in any way if you intend to do anything other than walk to the shops in them. Even then, you might want to take some duct tape with you..."
As I say, an honest, non-expletive containing and (in my eyes) helpful review of a product that others were saying similar things about.
So why did I get it "Disapproved and Removed by the Moderator" ???
Any ideas?
Gordon
"Bought these boots last winter in the sale then (they seem to be constantly on sale, makes me wonder if they ever were full price). Cannot stress enough how disappointed with these boots I was. On the first proper day out I used them, the sole unit became detached at the heel and I had to strap up with tape for the rest of the walk.
After this, I fixed them up only for the front of the sole unit to start coming apart.
They were not waterproof from the start - a 2 minute walk through wet grass soaked my feet to the bone.
Cannot recommend these boots in any way if you intend to do anything other than walk to the shops in them. Even then, you might want to take some duct tape with you..."
As I say, an honest, non-expletive containing and (in my eyes) helpful review of a product that others were saying similar things about.
So why did I get it "Disapproved and Removed by the Moderator" ???
Any ideas?
Gordon
In reply to peebles boy: Maybe they only want positive reviews
In reply to peebles boy:
So, what make/model of boots were these?
So, what make/model of boots were these?
In reply to puppythedog:
There was nothing positive to say about those things!!!!! Even the colours in them ran and stained my feet yellow!!!
There was nothing positive to say about those things!!!!! Even the colours in them ran and stained my feet yellow!!!
In reply to 999thAndy:
I'm not sure I should say in case this thread gets removed.....
So instead, I'll randomly bash the keys on the keyboard and see what comes up
http://www.fieldandtrek.com/karrimor-hot-rock-mens-walking-boots-182089?col...
I'm not sure I should say in case this thread gets removed.....
So instead, I'll randomly bash the keys on the keyboard and see what comes up
http://www.fieldandtrek.com/karrimor-hot-rock-mens-walking-boots-182089?col...
In reply to peebles boy:
Even if they don't mind you slagging off the product they're not going to like your comment about wondering if stuff in the sale was ever at full price. I think there's even a law that a product has to have been on sale at the full price before for a shop to advertise a lower 'sale' price.
Even if they don't mind you slagging off the product they're not going to like your comment about wondering if stuff in the sale was ever at full price. I think there's even a law that a product has to have been on sale at the full price before for a shop to advertise a lower 'sale' price.
In reply to peebles boy:
Ah, the lure of the big-name brands. They don't half sell some rubbish, those big names.
The most comprehensively useless hillwalking boots I ever had were from a company that tact and the libel laws forbid me to name; but they certainly weren't from the south side of the mountain, if you get my drift.
I went up Blencathra in them and had wet feet already a third of the way up Hall's Fell. Then I descended Doddick Fell--wet grass, just what hillwalking boots are supposed to be good at-- and the grip was not just useless but non-existent. I'd have been far better off in the trainers I'd just changed out of. It was like skiing, only without the control. I descended quite a lot of it on my backside, at times intentionally for safety reasons.
What counts, for grip, is not the brand-name on the box but the tread pattern on the sole. I know this now, but I wish I'd known it before I spent £55 on those enormities.
Ah, the lure of the big-name brands. They don't half sell some rubbish, those big names.
The most comprehensively useless hillwalking boots I ever had were from a company that tact and the libel laws forbid me to name; but they certainly weren't from the south side of the mountain, if you get my drift.
I went up Blencathra in them and had wet feet already a third of the way up Hall's Fell. Then I descended Doddick Fell--wet grass, just what hillwalking boots are supposed to be good at-- and the grip was not just useless but non-existent. I'd have been far better off in the trainers I'd just changed out of. It was like skiing, only without the control. I descended quite a lot of it on my backside, at times intentionally for safety reasons.
What counts, for grip, is not the brand-name on the box but the tread pattern on the sole. I know this now, but I wish I'd known it before I spent £55 on those enormities.
In reply to peebles boy:
The bottom line is. You now know what we already knew, don't buy Karrimor footwear.
The bottom line is. You now know what we already knew, don't buy Karrimor footwear.
In reply to Removed User:
Hmmmmm....yes and no....
I had a pair of approach shoes once that were one of the best pairs of outdoor shoes I've ever had, lasted years, done what I expected of them and more, and lasted a couple more years even when downgraded to my mountain biking shoes.
Those boots were horrific though.
Hard to believe such contrasting levels of product!!
Hmmmmm....yes and no....
I had a pair of approach shoes once that were one of the best pairs of outdoor shoes I've ever had, lasted years, done what I expected of them and more, and lasted a couple more years even when downgraded to my mountain biking shoes.
Those boots were horrific though.
Hard to believe such contrasting levels of product!!
In reply to peebles boy: Look at the price of them, then work back taking into account the manufacturers profit margin , the shops profit margin etc that probably gives you a cost of about £10 spent on the shoes manufacture, once you strip away labour and the cost of getting it to this country, I would imagine you have about a boot made of about £5-£7 of materials.
They are cheap for a reason, its because they are made of very low quality materials and put together as fast as possible with no care whatsoever on quality.
Still shouldnt fall apart straight away but you get my drift.
They are cheap for a reason, its because they are made of very low quality materials and put together as fast as possible with no care whatsoever on quality.
Still shouldnt fall apart straight away but you get my drift.
In reply to peebles boy: surely you return them if they fail on day 1?
In reply to peebles boy: Maybe because you state you 'fixed them up' this might give the impression that your bodged boots failed, which is not really a reflection on a manufacturing fault?
Im not saying I think they should of removed it, I think all reviews should be placed providing they are done so constructively which I agree your is.
Maybe drop them an email and ask why?
Out of interest did you return the products to them as faulty?
Im not saying I think they should of removed it, I think all reviews should be placed providing they are done so constructively which I agree your is.
Maybe drop them an email and ask why?
Out of interest did you return the products to them as faulty?
In reply to Removed User:
I still wish they made KSBs (although I think they were actually made bu Asolo, not karrimor
> (In reply to Removed Userpeebles boy)
>
> The bottom line is. You now know what we already knew, don't buy Karrimor footwear.
>
> The bottom line is. You now know what we already knew, don't buy Karrimor footwear.
I still wish they made KSBs (although I think they were actually made bu Asolo, not karrimor
In reply to peebles boy: Field and trek used to be a class retailer, absolute shambles now, could not believe the tat for sale in the ambleside store last visit. Most of my decent gear came from that store in the mid nineties, and I am still using it stuff like the msr xpg, thermarests, quasar tent, macpac rucksacks, rab clothing etc.
In reply to gcandlin:
I guess that's my point about "were they ever 70 quid" or whatever they were.
If they were - what a bloody rip off!
If they weren't - gives a false impression of what you are buying.
Imagine this:
Regatta sell one of their jackets for £400 one day, then the rest of the time they sell it for £70, accompanied by a tagline of "SAVE £330!!!". Your assumption COULD be that the jacket should perform as well as AN Other £400 jacket, but that you're getting a great bargain.
I know that's a very simplified process of what I'm trying to convey, but I just think that if manufacturers spend pennies making the product out of poor quality materials and pay pennies for it to be made by poor quality workers/workhouses and they spend pennies in R&D so it isn't actually any good at the (supposed) intended use, they should be honest enough to say so rather than dress it up as "WAS X amount, now Y amount, look how much you're saving!".
Or am I being slightly hopeful here....!
I guess that's my point about "were they ever 70 quid" or whatever they were.
If they were - what a bloody rip off!
If they weren't - gives a false impression of what you are buying.
Imagine this:
Regatta sell one of their jackets for £400 one day, then the rest of the time they sell it for £70, accompanied by a tagline of "SAVE £330!!!". Your assumption COULD be that the jacket should perform as well as AN Other £400 jacket, but that you're getting a great bargain.
I know that's a very simplified process of what I'm trying to convey, but I just think that if manufacturers spend pennies making the product out of poor quality materials and pay pennies for it to be made by poor quality workers/workhouses and they spend pennies in R&D so it isn't actually any good at the (supposed) intended use, they should be honest enough to say so rather than dress it up as "WAS X amount, now Y amount, look how much you're saving!".
Or am I being slightly hopeful here....!
In reply to peebles boy:
I suspect that F&T have a shop in an old nuclear bunker in the middle of nowhere, where they display one item of their stock for 30 days at full price so they can advertise it in all their shops at a discth ount.
They do sell some OK boots amongst the rubbish. Also some of their other stuff is fine e.g. the dry bags.
I suspect that F&T have a shop in an old nuclear bunker in the middle of nowhere, where they display one item of their stock for 30 days at full price so they can advertise it in all their shops at a discth ount.
They do sell some OK boots amongst the rubbish. Also some of their other stuff is fine e.g. the dry bags.
In reply to peebles boy: I had a pair of them and they fell appart the first time I wore them. It was only to the shop. They did refund me though.
In reply to peebles boy:
Karrimor used to be a good brand. Some time around about 10 years ago the name was sold off a couple of times eventually landing with Lonsdale/ Sports Direct. They now slap the Karrimor name on the crap they manufacture. Sports direct also own Field and Trek.
The above probably explains why you once had a great pair of shoes from Karrimor but your latest pair were rubbish and also why Field and Trek may not be all that keen on unfavourable reviews of Karrimor products.
Karrimor used to be a good brand. Some time around about 10 years ago the name was sold off a couple of times eventually landing with Lonsdale/ Sports Direct. They now slap the Karrimor name on the crap they manufacture. Sports direct also own Field and Trek.
The above probably explains why you once had a great pair of shoes from Karrimor but your latest pair were rubbish and also why Field and Trek may not be all that keen on unfavourable reviews of Karrimor products.
In reply to peebles boy:
I wrote a very honest review of a berghaus rucksack on the berghaus site and they refused to post it at first.
I wrote a very honest review of a berghaus rucksack on the berghaus site and they refused to post it at first.
In reply to peebles boy:
Simple, don't buy stuff from a bloke at owns a football club he doesn't even support.
Simple, don't buy stuff from a bloke at owns a football club he doesn't even support.
In reply to andrew breckill:
Well, it's a marginal improvement over having to wade through the full Sports Direct stock to find the odd bits you want (barefoot shoes, in my case). But that's about it!
We've just got one in Keswick. My 4 year old dragged me out after a couple of minutes saying "Let's go to a proper shop" and took me across the road to Needlesports
> (In reply to peebles boy) Field and trek used to be a class retailer, absolute shambles now, could not believe the tat for sale in the ambleside store last visit.
Well, it's a marginal improvement over having to wade through the full Sports Direct stock to find the odd bits you want (barefoot shoes, in my case). But that's about it!
We've just got one in Keswick. My 4 year old dragged me out after a couple of minutes saying "Let's go to a proper shop" and took me across the road to Needlesports
In reply to NorthernGrit:
You see, Gudrun is right-- wicked capitalists...
> (
> Karrimor used to be a good brand. Some time around about 10 years ago the name was sold off a couple of times eventually landing with Lonsdale/ Sports Direct. They now slap the Karrimor name on the crap they manufacture. Sports direct also own Field and Trek.
>
> The above probably explains why you once had a great pair of shoes from Karrimor but your latest pair were rubbish and also why Field and Trek may not be all that keen on unfavourable reviews of Karrimor products.
>
> The above probably explains why you once had a great pair of shoes from Karrimor but your latest pair were rubbish and also why Field and Trek may not be all that keen on unfavourable reviews of Karrimor products.
You see, Gudrun is right-- wicked capitalists...
In reply to Tim Chappell:
They/we are when all that matters is the bottom line. ()
> (In reply to NorthernGrit)
> You see, Gudrun is right-- wicked capitalists...
They/we are when all that matters is the bottom line. ()
In reply to peebles boy: How long ago did you have the approach shoes? Karrimor went bust in 2004 and now "sports direct" sell their stuff.
I would not like to comment on the possibility of a change in quality around the same time, no I would not.
I would not like to comment on the possibility of a change in quality around the same time, no I would not.
In reply to Carolyn:
Good choice! I like needsports because they give their opinion of the gear (including on their website) rather than repeating manufacturers' speil.
> We've just got one in Keswick. My 4 year old dragged me out after a couple of minutes saying "Let's go to a proper shop" and took me across the road to Needlesports
Good choice! I like needsports because they give their opinion of the gear (including on their website) rather than repeating manufacturers' speil.
In reply to peebles boy:
Tesco do this with plonk all the time, saying to the producers we'll take X cases and sell the wine at £9 a bottle, producer then says woah! this isn't £9 wine we are making you'll never sell it!! Tesco then say ah we'll mark it up initially for that but sell it for £4.49 and the punters will lap it up!
I don't know but there may even be a sale or return aspect to the whole scam
> (In reply to gcandlin)
>
> I guess that's my point about "were they ever 70 quid" or whatever they were.
>
> Imagine this:
>
> Regatta sell one of their jackets for £400 one day, then the rest of the time they sell it for £70, accompanied by a tagline of "SAVE £330!!!". Your assumption COULD be that the jacket should perform as well as AN Other £400 jacket, but that you're getting a great bargain.
>
>
> I guess that's my point about "were they ever 70 quid" or whatever they were.
>
> Imagine this:
>
> Regatta sell one of their jackets for £400 one day, then the rest of the time they sell it for £70, accompanied by a tagline of "SAVE £330!!!". Your assumption COULD be that the jacket should perform as well as AN Other £400 jacket, but that you're getting a great bargain.
>
Tesco do this with plonk all the time, saying to the producers we'll take X cases and sell the wine at £9 a bottle, producer then says woah! this isn't £9 wine we are making you'll never sell it!! Tesco then say ah we'll mark it up initially for that but sell it for £4.49 and the punters will lap it up!
I don't know but there may even be a sale or return aspect to the whole scam
In reply to peebles boy: The Karrimor stuff in F+T is a joke, I bought a tent that leaked from them and wouldn't touch technical that they make with a barge pole.
That said, if you are after cheap cotton tshirts, socks and baseball caps they are perfectly OK.
R
That said, if you are after cheap cotton tshirts, socks and baseball caps they are perfectly OK.
R
In reply to Roberttaylor:
I quite like the approach shoes, though I only buy them as trainers, they aren't really suitable for proper outdoors stuff. Handy thing is that they're always available for around 20 quid a pair, and the 13s (which are readily available, unlike in most places) always fit so no need to waste time trying them on.
Neil
I quite like the approach shoes, though I only buy them as trainers, they aren't really suitable for proper outdoors stuff. Handy thing is that they're always available for around 20 quid a pair, and the 13s (which are readily available, unlike in most places) always fit so no need to waste time trying them on.
Neil
In reply to peebles boy:
Just for info I have a pair of cheapo women's Karrimor boots that are great. Waterproof, comfy, grippy - the leather is scuffing quickly but for the price would buy again. So still some usuable stuff with that name on.
Just for info I have a pair of cheapo women's Karrimor boots that are great. Waterproof, comfy, grippy - the leather is scuffing quickly but for the price would buy again. So still some usuable stuff with that name on.
In reply to peebles boy:
You shouldn't expect a commercial website to allow anything other that favourable comment about their products or their advertisers' products. This includes UKC.
You shouldn't expect a commercial website to allow anything other that favourable comment about their products or their advertisers' products. This includes UKC.
In reply to peebles boy: Bought a pair of Karrimor trainers to trash on cross country runs from Sports Direct. For £35 I'm happy with them and they haven't fallen apart (yet).
Believe it or not their reccomended retail price is £139.99. You can get Inov8s for about half that price and I'm pretty sure that's the RPP of the hardcore La Sportiva shoe with a built in gaiter. Interesting.
Believe it or not their reccomended retail price is £139.99. You can get Inov8s for about half that price and I'm pretty sure that's the RPP of the hardcore La Sportiva shoe with a built in gaiter. Interesting.
In reply to flaneur: Why not? A site like UKC stands to make a lot more money with a reputation for providing independent reviews than it does with a reputation for regurgitating company spiel on demand.
In reply to peebles boy:
Frankly, a shop is unlikely to post wholly negative reviews. Did you really expect them to be impartial? Especially a 'pile it high, flog it cheap' place like F&T, aka Sports Direct is.
If you want to post reviews, put them on an independent review site where comments are allowed; here, OutdoorsMagic, etc.
We're also into the realm of 'placed testimonials/negative reviews'; it's a growing problem.
Frankly, a shop is unlikely to post wholly negative reviews. Did you really expect them to be impartial? Especially a 'pile it high, flog it cheap' place like F&T, aka Sports Direct is.
If you want to post reviews, put them on an independent review site where comments are allowed; here, OutdoorsMagic, etc.
We're also into the realm of 'placed testimonials/negative reviews'; it's a growing problem.
In reply to remus:
That is what Supertopo/Outdoor Gear Labs have chosen to do. Perhaps UKC could operate like that but they choose not to. I don't know why not, you'll have to ask Alan James. This website has a near monopoly for online climbing news and readership in the UK so you'd think they would be in a good position to call the shots if they so wished but seems they don't.
Negative posts about a company or product do get moderated here. That is the prerogative of the owners of this website. Just don't be under any illusions about it.
Gear reviews here are as anodyne as those in the UK outdoor print media. When did you last read a review that compared a wide range of products all doing the same job? They exist but are very few and far between. Comparing like with like might involve expressing an opinion that one product is not quite as good as another! What we get are group reviews where 3 ropes with completely different roles are described. No chance of making an informed choice about a rope for a particular role. Then there are the 'Product announcements'. If they are not "regurgitated company spiel" please show me where I am missing the incisive reporting.
I think this website has many positive aspects, the logbook system for example. The gear reviews are not one of them.
> (In reply to flaneur) Why not? A site like UKC stands to make a lot more money with a reputation for providing independent reviews than it does with a reputation for regurgitating company spiel on demand.
That is what Supertopo/Outdoor Gear Labs have chosen to do. Perhaps UKC could operate like that but they choose not to. I don't know why not, you'll have to ask Alan James. This website has a near monopoly for online climbing news and readership in the UK so you'd think they would be in a good position to call the shots if they so wished but seems they don't.
Negative posts about a company or product do get moderated here. That is the prerogative of the owners of this website. Just don't be under any illusions about it.
Gear reviews here are as anodyne as those in the UK outdoor print media. When did you last read a review that compared a wide range of products all doing the same job? They exist but are very few and far between. Comparing like with like might involve expressing an opinion that one product is not quite as good as another! What we get are group reviews where 3 ropes with completely different roles are described. No chance of making an informed choice about a rope for a particular role. Then there are the 'Product announcements'. If they are not "regurgitated company spiel" please show me where I am missing the incisive reporting.
I think this website has many positive aspects, the logbook system for example. The gear reviews are not one of them.
In reply to andrew breckill:
Got a bargain pair of Berghaus walking trousers in F&T in Guildford and my wife got some really nice running socks for a pittance
Wouldn't touch most of the rest of the tat in there, though...
Got a bargain pair of Berghaus walking trousers in F&T in Guildford and my wife got some really nice running socks for a pittance
Wouldn't touch most of the rest of the tat in there, though...
In reply to remus:
Um, no it doesn't.
Advertising is bought by gear companies. They won't buy advertisements if they are getting negative reviews.
Um, no it doesn't.
Advertising is bought by gear companies. They won't buy advertisements if they are getting negative reviews.
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