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http://www.european-outdoor.de/

Did anyone go? Anything particularly interesting on the gear front?

A couple of interesting bits:
New Grigri style belay device from Faders.
Madrock mountain boots.
In reply to Andy Hyslop - UKC: My highlights (rather boring choices): Karrimor SA II back system and the Osprey range for next spring...
tony ball 25 Jul 2005
In reply to Andy Hyslop - UKC: Petzl have some new stuff, they have changed the meteor helmet it looks a little more conventional but still ultra-light weight. They have changed the Reverso's, added some lumpy bits where the live rope comes out so that there is more friction in there.
Black Diamond have changed the ATC so that it may be used like a Rverso in an Auto-lock mode. Simond have also produced some type of device in the Reverso mould but it looked crap.
Petzl also have a new leashless axe.
DMM also seem to be producing a new leashless axe looks very stylish can't wait to see the full version of that.
Trango, an American company have a UK distributor so we will see Big Bro's over here possibly.

By all accounts the show was not as busy as previous years but it seemed to have a buzz about it.
In reply to tony ball:
> By all accounts the show was not as busy as previous years but it seemed to have a buzz about it.

I haven’t been for a few years but I thought it was really good. The new halls are excellent, good positive atmosphere (generally), good crack and met lots of new people.
James Davies 25 Jul 2005
In reply to tony ball:

Fingers crossed Trango gear makes it over...

Have to start saving!
Gerard 25 Jul 2005
In reply to Andy Hyslop - UKC:

Arcteryx 'Acrux' lightweight alpine packs looked great - how well they would actually carry????
Saloman clothing looking interesting.
Berghaus - new small clothing/equipment range in conjunction with their sponsored team - Extrem Big Wall.

G
In reply to James Davies:
> (In reply to tony ball)
>
> Fingers crossed Trango gear makes it over...
>
> Have to start saving!

Well, I think it will. The lads at Beta Climbing Designs are acting as agents: http://www.betaclimbingdesigns.com/
 Kenny Stocker 26 Jul 2005
In reply to Andy Hyslop - UKC:

We're just back from the show after passing by Magic Wood for a days bouldering. Products that stood out for us were the DMM Bouldering Mats, a real challenge to the Drop Zone, and dare I say to the Phud!!

The biggest point of interest was the emergence of a number of Asian factories launching there own brands... this must have some bearing on the overall costs. The largest of them was called Nepa, www.climbingnepa.com. they had some very interesting climbing shoes.

Kenny.

epik 26 Jul 2005
In reply to alpkid:

you sure that web address is right as it doesn't seem to work or maybe its just me?
Alpcol 26 Jul 2005
In reply to epik:

they had two addresses listed in the guide. This one seems to work.

www.nepaoutdoor.com/

Sorry.
epik 26 Jul 2005
In reply to colthechunk:

yeah i got it to work after a google but all thats on it is a front page at moment with increadibly irritating moving text
Simon Marsh - DMM 26 Jul 2005
In reply to Andy Hyslop - UKC:

My highlights would be:

- Arcteryx in general, the new sacks as a highlight.
- Faders SUM, which might actually be a real challenge to the Grigri; especially impressive as this is from a company that normally concentrates on price not quality.
- The new Petzl helmet - definately the model to beat from next Spring.

I found the presence of the 3 Chinese biner companies a bit frightening after looking at the quality of product on offer. I would be very interested in seeing how they get some of that stuff through testing - they'll have to choose their test house very carefully.

The other main move seemed to be a retreat from China towards the Eastern Europe for cheaper goods, especially on the harness front.

It seemed quieter, but there were more Brits there than last year.

Regards

Simon



adamvl 27 Jul 2005
In reply to Simon Marsh - DMM:

The Arcteryx sacs certainly did look amazing. Did anyone try one on?

Something i always wonder when looking at their gear is to what extent the high level of design and construction benefits the people using it...... or do they just do it to intimidate their competitors ?

Adam (crux)
Dave Hunter, Rock + Run 27 Jul 2005
In reply to adamvl:
> (In reply to Simon Marsh - DMM)
>
> The Arcteryx sacs certainly did look amazing. Did anyone try one on?
>
>
>


How much do they weigh? How much do they cost.

They are the two things I've previously found most intimidating about Arcteryx sacks...

V12 Outdoor 27 Jul 2005
In reply to Dave Hunter, Rock + Run:
Surprisingly cheap for Arc'teryx. But obviously not what most people would call cheap, they start at £200 up to £300 for the big pack. Considering the cost of their existing range, it was almost a surprise to hear the price seeing how much development had gone in to them (4 1/2 years with about 10 designers).

The fabric is heavier than some because all the gluing features and the back system bonding all rely on the fabric for it's strength - the fabric is also waterproof and the sack taped with a roll top bag covered in a conventional lid making the whole bag water tight. Because the backsystem was very neat and clean and there's not reams of tape and bar tacks, they weren't heavy sacks. The fit was good and the sacks cleanly designed and of course they looked amazing. They are the most desirable and commercial packs Arc'teryx have ever made IMHO.
Dave Hunter, Rock + Run 27 Jul 2005
In reply to Rob at V12 Outdoor:

You think a £200-£300 sacks commercial?????!!! But I suppose you mean relatively speaking

I'm unclear, is the sack a roll top AND a normal top (ie can you dispense with the normal top? In which case I wonder why didn't they cut weight and cost by just having a roll top. Heavyish fabrics not the end of the world if the total sac weight is still low.

V12 Outdoor 27 Jul 2005
In reply to adamvl:

Hi Adam,

I would say that the leanness (if thats a word) and simplicity of your gear probably intimidates most manufacturers who think that design is all about straps, flaps, bells and whistles. They don't have the confidence to give people what they need rather than what they believe they should need - confidence Crux have always had and should always have. These new sacks from Arc'teryx lean (that word again) towards your ideals but have a bit more featuring than say an AK47. They do compliment each other very well. I wonder whose fabric costs the most as your Kevlar fabric must cost a fortune?
V12 Outdoor 27 Jul 2005
In reply to Dave Hunter, Rock + Run:
> (In reply to Rob at V12 Outdoor)
> I'm unclear, is the sack a roll top AND a normal top (ie can you dispense with the normal top? In which case I wonder why didn't they cut weight and cost by just having a roll top. Heavyish fabrics not the end of the world if the total sac weight is still low.

Slightly belt and braces I agree, but it's not over the top and the fabric isn't heavy really - more like new pursuit weight - just not superlight like Go light, etc
Dave Hunter, Rock + Run 27 Jul 2005
In reply to Rob at V12 Outdoor:
> (In reply to adamvl)
>
> Hi Adam,
>
These new sacks from Arc'teryx lean (that word again) towards your ideals but have a bit more featuring than say an AK47.

Features, shmeatures bah humbug.

I wish somebody would make a roll top 45-50 litre sack with just side compression straps and wand pockets and a small (and I mean tiny) internal pocket for keys etc. Ideally out of a light and tough fabric. No crampon patches, ice axe loops, internal pockets, external pockets, super fancy anti gravity hip belts, air backs or other useless junk. Then I could die happy.

That'd be properly uncommercial though

Woubeir 27 Jul 2005

Which of the Arc'teryx packs are you all talking about: the trekking models (Naos) or alpine models (Acrux) ? I've only seen the Naos models and they look very sober compared with the Bora's which they are intended to replace (altough apparantly both are being offered nex year).

It seems it's going to be busy next year: new arc'teryx packs, new Osprey Aether packs, MHW packs, Granite Gear, ...
In reply to Dave Hunter, Rock + Run: As we evil retailers know: if we ever ranged what the punters ought to buy, as opposed to what they want to buy, we'd all go bust!
V12 Outdoor 27 Jul 2005
In reply to Woubeir:

Both are quite similar in conception and design, although the Acrux range has a more conventional hip belt and the Naos has a lot more play/swivel due to that rotation point.

It will definitely be the Acrux Range for us as we leave the trekking market well alone for those who can service it properly and stick to our knitting as much as we can.
Woubeir 27 Jul 2005
In reply to Rob at V12 Outdoor:
Any specifications on the Acrux range ? I know the Naos weight between 2 and 2,4 kg which is a lot lighter than the Bora's (of course, will they be able to handle the same loads?). Have they been able to do the same with the Acrux ?
How does it (Acrux 50) compare with a Nozone ? Thinking of that pack for a while but the weight puts me off.
V12 Outdoor 27 Jul 2005
In reply to Woubeir:
> How does it (Acrux 50) compare with a Nozone ?

It's way nicer. I like the Nozone, but I never felt it looked like an arcteryx pack even though it carried well (I know cosmetics shouldn't be important, but hey it's an Arcteryx product). The Acrux carries at least as well, but is cheaper, lighter and way slicker.

Woubeir 27 Jul 2005
In reply to Rob at V12 Outdoor:
To be honest, I like the looks of the Nozone.
Apart from that, is the Acrux as strippable as the Nozone is ? The complete Nozone is in itself perhaps overdesigned with the crampon patch, the heavy suspension system, etc ... but stripped from al the excessories it looked very good.
Any idea also on the weight of the 50.
V12 Outdoor 27 Jul 2005
In reply to alpkid:

> The biggest point of interest was the emergence of a number of Asian factories launching there own brands... this must have some bearing on the overall costs. The largest of them was called Nepa, www.climbingnepa.com. they had some very interesting climbing shoes.
>
> Kenny.

Some companies will insist on selling this kind of generic products, but if the asians set up their own distribution in Europe, what's next? They could undercut all the cheap stuff even more leaving certain companies in 'no mans land'. Still, I'm sure these companies have done their market research and have found that the climbing market will be big enough for all the new brands. I'm not so sure.

Alpjim 27 Jul 2005
In reply to Dave Hunter, Rock + Run:

Did you see the new roll top sacks on the OR / Exped stand. They're look just like you describe.

Jim.
epik 27 Jul 2005
In reply to Alpjim:
> (In reply to Andy Hyslop - UKC)
>
> Just remembered.... EPIK Demin. Windproof, Waterproof, Breathable demin!!!! That'll change the rules of what to wear in the mountains.

do you mean EPIC denim? as in Epic by Nextec!
In reply to Rob at V12 Outdoor:

Does anyone actually sell Arc'teryx successfully outside London? By successfully I mean without flogging the majority of it off at the end of the season.
roblo 27 Jul 2005
In reply to Andy Hyslop - UKC:

who sells it successfully inside london? niche market that will sell around the country to those who need it.
 danm 27 Jul 2005
In reply to Dave Hunter, Rock + Run: Dave, you might like this little anecdote I heard a few years ago. Whether it's true, I don't know! Kurt Diemberger is doing a lecture tour of the UK, there's a few of the big gear manufacturers there touting their supa dupa kit, all the bells and whistles type stuff with the price tag to match. After the lecture, the veteran climber is holding court with representatives of said companies hanging on his every word. Someone asks him what is the perfect alpine rucksack, and he spots a likely looking candidate slung over a nearby persons shoulder. Asking to see it, he points out all the important features: tough fabric, no padding, a simple waist belt, about 40 litres, a top flap with a small pocket, and thats pretty much it. "Who is this company?" asks the great man. The audience are gobsmacked, whilst the owner of the rucksack is looking unbelievably smug. It's Adrian from Aiguille with one of his own basic centre rucksacks.
In reply to roblo:
> (In reply to Andy Hyslop - UKC)
>
> who sells it successfully inside london?

Snow and Rock?
In reply to danm:

Great story! So why don’t we all just buy Aiguille, or POD?
 Alpnick 27 Jul 2005
In reply to everyone

Firstly cheers to Andy, for putting up this post and obviously highlighting all posters in this thread as "trade" it was also good to meet up with you.

Highlights- slightly ecletic and random i know..but hey


1)Finally seeing a XGK-3 ( i know that you guys and girls in the shops would of seen them but it was good to see one anyway) i have always loved my XGK 2 and just nice to see it finally rid of that stupid rigid bar
2)Black Diamond shopping bags
3)A unmanned stand with just a holdless boulder (it would of been even better if they had a phone on the stand so you could call them up)
4)Finding a wlgore party spread out less than a meter from my tent and the tight wads bas£$%^s not offering us a beer despite the fact that they taken over the communal tent and the table and benches for the campsite users.
5)http://www.mellert.de/ seven summits head torch
quite hard looking. Would match a xgk-3 quite well
6)The bit in the fashion show when you think what the f&*K is this....well it was
http://www.euroschirm.com/englisch/index.cgi.
7)A washing machine from Siemens with a cycle for Nikwax.
erm...not sure what to say about that
8)Meeting really techy people who go on about their "technologhy"......their awesome.


Cheers

Nick (from alpkit)




In reply to Andy Hyslop - UKC:
> (In reply to danm)
>
> Great story! So why don’t we all just buy Aiguille, or POD?

Altogether now: marketing!

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