UKC

Could someone please the difference between the two? I'm thinking of selling a kidney or two

In reply to iksander: Different pick? Whats the price diffence?

In reply to mike kann: Price is the same, look the same. Grivel website is pretty but useless...

In reply to iksander: Apart from the pick which doesn't look the same. To me it looks like the pick on the master is mega aggressive, with a weight plate? So maybe more ice oriented?

In reply to iksander: http://www.theepicentre.co.uk/catalogue/climbing-gear/ice-axes/master

Got it the wrong way round. Master is the ice oriented version, Force is for mixed. So different rating on the picks.

In reply to mike kann: Thanks, but I'm really confused now. What Epicentre have labelled as a "Master" looks like what Grivel call "Force Carbon", but with B rated picks http://www.grivel.com/products/ice/ice_axes/70-force_carbon

But for the Alloys I think you're right - Force has dry/ mixed picks and Master ice picks.

I guess they are all a bit boutique/ small batch manufacture and change a fair bit, I've seen different handle/spike arrangements too.

I wonder what that daft little loop of steel on the back of the head is for?

In reply to iksander: Apart from its not. Its just a master anodised black. The carbon is totally different, there aren't pocket machined in it, the pick comes all the way down the shaft tp protect the carbon from damage and I'd imagine that is that the loop of steel is for, then you do a stein pull and want to avoid damaging the head of the axe.

In reply to mike kann: Plus I think epicentre might just have put the wrong pics up and put a force there in place of the master...

In reply to mike kann: Ahh, OK got it now thanks... I think

In reply to mike kann:

Yes Mike, that is right. Grivel have changed colour from gold/orange to black on this years models.

The Masters are designed for ice. The Force are designed for dry / mixed.

Differences are:

Picks:
- The Master has 3mm B rated picks*.
- The Force has 5mm T rated picks, pick angle is also more agressive and mixed / dry specific.
* This years version of the master comes with a spacer which means you can fit the 5mm picks without having to machine out the head.

Handle:
Handle on the Force is slightly more pushed back, again more agressive for mixed / dry.

HTH

In reply to mike kann:

Yes they have. That link is to a picture of a Force.