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Help Me reduce my Hiking pack weight

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 glenn0010 22 Dec 2020

Hi All,

So I just got back from a 3 day track across 70 miles of the pennine way. We were aiming to walk 35 miles a day. Clealry this was too ambitous. 

The first day we made it 28 miles in about 12 hours of walking and I was pretty toast. I think my pack was a bit too heavy.

I weighed it before I left, IIRC it weight about 15-16 kg. To hit the 35 miles target I think I need to reduce some wieght but I don't think I really packed anything which I diddn't really need to.

So here's my list:

Mammut trion spine 50 l - 2.2 kg

Wild Country Helm 1 compact - 2 kg

Helm 1 / Helm Compact 1 Footprint - ~0.2 kg??

Berghaus Elevation 600 - 1.26 kg

EXPED SYNMAT HL WINTER - 0.6 kg

Go Pro Kit - Not really Required - ~ 1 kg

Chargers / Battery bank  - 0.5 kg

Water - 2 kg

Waterproofs and extra shitrs , socks - 2 kg??

Food for 3 days -  ~ 2 kg?

Alpkit Bru Kit  - 0.6 kg

2 x 100 g gas cannisters - 0.4 kg total

Misc (hat, gloves other bits) - 1 kg.

Looking at this list, I don't know what I could shave off apart from the go pro!

Maybe a lighter bag, don't carry 3 days of food at once?

Halfn way through the scond day our pace slowed down to a crawl.

Or were we too ambitious with our distances?

Cheers

Glenn

 lithos 22 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

few quick ideas,

normally people focus on the big 3 first, tent, s-bag, sac. Your pac is REALLY heavy (aim for 1kg or less) and you might want to loose the tent footprint (200g is light) - a really lightweight tent wil be 1.5kg max (super dooper are 750 .. 1000g)

gas 2 x100g is heavier than 1 x 200 as each empty cannister weighs 100

2kg of water - thats alot, aim to collect on way

2kg is heavy for waterprroos and extra clothers but its winter and you must stay warm+dry

food, do you need 3 days all at once ?

battery bank chargers - dont need for 3 days (airplane mode, no gps etc for phones)

35 miles a day is huge id suggest. 20 more sensible ball park (still quite hIGH)

 Toerag 22 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

35mpd is a lot. I've done 50 in a day and 40 in 11 hours with minimal / no baggage and that was hard enough - just being on your feet that long is bad and the inevitable blisters make you walk funny and affect your joints.  Fitness isn't the issue, injuries are. To do 35 then do it again the next day is pretty tough.  To answer your original question - assuming you're allowed to, just stay in accommodation so you don't need to take camping stuff.

If not then:-

only carry a litre of water and top up as you go. Use an old coke bottle instead of heavier alloy bottle.

Work out how much gas you need and only take the right amount - did you need the second cylinder? Take food which doesn't need cooking? Take lightweight food which needs minimal cooking (couscous / mugshots / readybrek)

Charger / battery isn't needed if you spend all your time in aeroplane mode.

I assume there were 2 or more of you, would sharing a 2+ man tent save weight over 2 individual tents? Ditch the tent bags if you didn't. I assume there was plenty of nice soft grass to camp on, ditch the footprint.

Cache food / tent / fuel so you don't have to carry it all the way, or leave it once used and collect after.

1
 bouldery bits 22 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

Hi,

Firstly, how much walking have you done recently with long days and big packs? That'll make a difference! I'm by no means calling you unfit from my armchair. The Penine Way is not an easy place to be. I am certain that, given my other alternative fitness priorities at present, I would currently find myself unable to cover such distances on that terrain. 

Secondly, 2kg of food for 3 days rings alarm bells for me. I'd think that's about 1kg short of what I'd need for that kind of effort and optimal sleep (unless I was also buying extra from pubs, cafes, post offices etc). Perhaps more calories may be required? 

Then again, I am a greedy greedy man. 

In reply to glenn0010:

My food would probably be lighter (200g noodles & soup powder &100g oats, nuts dried fruit is my daily ration for short trips)

I don't carry water - a filter is much lighter, & then I don't have to be careful how much I use. Different in very arid regions, but we're blessed with plenty of streams etc. My (old fashioned) unit weighs 300g ish

Sharing a tent halves the weight. If alone & forecast is reasonable I'll just take a tarp & a few pegs (walking poles too)

I don't cover those distances either anymore, but I'm not an endurance athlete (just a bimbler)

The go pro etc is your choice.

Lighter packs & sleeping bags (wear base layer/jacket if chilly) are available 

1
 Andy Johnson 22 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

I don't know your age and fitness, but 35 miles a day on that kind of terrain seems seriously over-ambitious to me. Even in summer when the days are long, its a very fast pace to sustain over multiple days. It seems to me that you maybe knackered yourself on the first day, and the slow-down on day two was likely due to that rather than your pack weight.

For multi-day backpacking I personally aim for around 15 miles per day (perhaps up to around 20), depending on terrain, available light, weather etc. Less if necessary. Camping on the hill rather than at campsites reduces the temptation to over-stretch days.

For Summer backpacking I'd normally carry about 9kg + plus around 2 kg for three day's food and gas. In winter I'd add a couple more kg for extra clothing, heavier sleeping bag, winter kit, etc. Apart from the gopro and chargers your list seems reasonable to me: The only things that stand out are your rucksac and your tent, which are both fairly heavy. Look for a tent to be about 1-1.2 kg, lighter if you consider a tarp. A lighter load means you can consider a lighter, simpler sac without an internal frame, which saves more weight.

In the UK I wouldn't count water as part of my pack weight as I carry little and re-fill often. I usually use chlorine dioxide tablets rather than a filter.

Post edited at 17:50
In reply to glenn0010:

You've got 1kg of stove and gas, 2kg of food and 2kg of water.

If there's enough villages/towns on the Pennine way you could dump the stove and food and carry less water.   I usually carry a bottle with a filter to load up from streams if I get stuck and buy something to eat and drink every time I go through a village.  On a multi-day hike in Scotland I wouldn't be carrying more than 1kg of water/juice, nothing like 2kg of food and no stove/gas.

Also no go-pro, no tent footprint and my rucksack itself is a bit lighter.

Post edited at 17:38
 marsbar 22 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

Can you have another go when the weather is warmer?  

This will mean you won't need as many warm clothes and you can take a lighter sleeping bag and you won't need as many calories to keep warm at night.  

You should be able to save weight by sharing tent and stove if you aren't on your own.  

I think your miles per day is quite challenging especially as it isn't on the flat.  

 SouthernSteve 22 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

Perhaps look up some fastpacking sites to see if there are suggestions there. Lightweight usually means compromised comfort, smelling bad and quite a high cost. I am too old for such shenanigans now, but for the Silva GreatLakeland3D (they carry all your kit whilst you run between venues) the maximum weight is 13 kg and this is easily achievable with all the food for 3 days and some luxury items and not sharing the 2 man tent (I have a Southern Cross 2).

The distances are large. Basic 'Naismith's' would suggest for 35 miles and 4000ft of ascent about 13 hours are needed with no breaks as a minimum.

Post edited at 18:23
 Andy Johnson 22 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

Also:

I find that many people carry more spare clothing than they actually need. For three days on the PW at this time of year I'd probably just take a down jacket, spare pair of socks, spare hat and gloves. Thats all. At night use the jacket to boost your mat or bag, or even sleep in it if its very cold.

Post edited at 18:09
 Dr.S at work 22 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

Making your kit lighter is a fun game - for that sort of trip I’d probably have a base weight of c7kg, loading up with food/water as required.

as others have said target pack, sleep system and shelter - and try to be a bit ruthless about stuff you do. It need.

it can get really speedy, and it’s worth doing something like looking at the weight saving when you change an item and dividing it by the cost. Some snazzy stuff costs loads but saves little, whilst some quite cheap things will save lots of weight.

 tehmarks 22 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

Spendy gains:

  • Lighter tent (loses you 800g easily).
  • Lighter sleeping bag (potentially loses you ~500g).
  • Lighter backpack (loses you 1000g easily).

Minimalistic gains:

  • Ditch the tent footprint.
  • Minimise the amount of extra clothing and accessories to that which you reasonably can't do without. One set of wet underlayers, one set of sleeping underlayers, additional layers as required. One pair of gloves, one pair of emergency mittens, one hat, etc.
  • Take one larger gas (more gas for less metal), or for three days I think you could reasonably take one small gas only. Depends how often your brew up and whether your breakfast needs cooking as well as dinner!
  • Less water, replenish en-route or at camp (and arrange your camps such that there is a water source — 1000g gone instantly).
  • Ditch the Go Pro, store the memories 'internally' and save your knees another 1000g.
  • Ditch the chargers and battery bank, switch the phone to aeroplane mode (or off) and only use it when required. Anything that might need power, take spare batteries for instead of charging it.
  • Think your food through in advance (though in fairness you can only really lose food weight without nutrition by cutting out wet weight).
 PaulW 22 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

Did the Pennine Way in winter and the one 35 mile day we did was exhausting. Carrying perhaps 10kg. 

Would not have been repeatable over multiple days for me at least. 20-25 miles was a good tough day but still fun. 

 tjdodd 22 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

This is a 5 day equipment list but a good guide for what you can do

https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/mamores-ridge-gear-list-i1824

Comes in at under 12 kg for 5 days which is very light but shows what can be done.  Ultralightoutdoorgear is a really good website to browse to see where you can cut weight.

 Run_Ross_Run 22 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

Get on to lighterpack and list all your gear. It helped me massively to cut weight. https://lighterpack.com/welcome

e.g. My cooking set is now about 170 gms where it was probably three times that before. 

My spring /summer/autumn base weight is just over 5kg so with food/fuel etc for a 5 day hike I'm looking at about 7-8kg I reckon (collect water on the way). Winter would probably add another 2kg to that. 

 Tony Buckley 22 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

I appreciate this approach won't be for everyone, but you could ditch the stove and the gas, taking only one pan to eat cereal out of and just a spoon.  You'd need to plan your meals carefully for it to work, and drink only water, but it saves weight.

Also, clothes.  Only what your wear to walk in and a dry t-shirt, pants and leggings for the evening.  No-one said you had to be presentable, or even not smell, and sometimes you have to accept that you're going to be putting damp clothes on in the morning.

T.

 tehmarks 22 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

On the subject of stoves, if you don't go quite as far as Tony and still want to take one: the Brukit is 560g, but does exactly the same job with only a bit more efficiency than a tiny gas burner like the Kraku and a titanium mug. Total weight about 65g plus gas and lighter (/matches/fire stone). You can pack the Kraku* and a small gas inside the Alpkit 650ml titanium mug with enough space for some tea bags or coffee sachets as well.

I didn't include it earlier as I couldn't be bothered to look the Brukit up, but as others have pointed out it's another area where you can make a small gain.

* - other brands available, I just have and am familiar with the Alpkit versions

 GrahamD 22 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

Personally I'd have said your target distance is way out if you haven't got a background in that sort of expedition.  28 miles day 1 is over probably the worst terrain on the whole route !

In reply to glenn0010:

Get rid of the question marks: find out how much stuff actually weighs. Then find stuff that is lighter.

Meths, carried in a simple plastic bottle is always lighter than gas. You can take only the amount you need. My entire coolest (cosy, pot, mytimug, caldera clone, red bull burner) weighs less than half your brukit...

The big four: carry, shelter, sleep, cook.

Tent is heavy; my lightest is 700g.

Pack is heavy.

Water and food consumables are usually not included in base weight. Look at the food you're carrying. With dry foods, and rehydration cooking, you should average 400kcal/100g. So with 3000kcal/day, you're looking at 750g per day. Adding fats and nuts with higher calorific value will bring that down a bit.

28 miles in a day? That would be too much for me. Not surprised you were toast. 35 miles a day? I won't be joining you...

 henwardian 22 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

> Mammut trion spine 50 l - 2.2 kg

Get the rest down a bit and presumably you can get a lighter pack? I don't know much about lightweight packs though, except that the lightest ones also have no form and support so they would be a nightmare for walking long distances.

> Wild Country Helm 1 compact - 2 kg

How much comfort do you want? A bivi bag would be half this weight but obviously a fair bit more miserable.

> Helm 1 / Helm Compact 1 Footprint - ~0.2 kg??

No footprint needed for the bivi bag.

> Berghaus Elevation 600 - 1.26 kg

I don't really know what the English winter feels like but in Scotland I think I'd be right cold in that! If it works for you then great, I doubt you can save much weight here though.

> EXPED SYNMAT HL WINTER - 0.6 kg

Could be lighter: https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/equipment-c3/sleeping-mats-c58/all-... and I'm sure there are lighter still ones, at some point the misery factor will become more objectionable though...

> Go Pro Kit - Not really Required - ~ 1 kg

Not required, as you said.

> Chargers / Battery bank  - 0.5 kg

Is this for the gopro? If so, you can dump that too. I would guess spare batteries for a headtorch would be more like 0.1kg?

> Water - 2 kg

How is access to water on the route? Can you drink from rivers in England? In Scotland you could basically get away with a plastic cup (0.05kg) as long as you camp close enough to a stream to be convenient.

> Waterproofs and extra shitrs , socks - 2 kg??

Do you need extra shirts and socks? I think I'd probably just wear the same clothes for 3 days and smell. You can get very light waterproofs but I would guess you will need to choose between "lasts for a couple of seasons and costs the earth" and "cheap as chips but replace very often and doesn't breath so you get a lot of condensation" if you want to save weight here.

> Food for 3 days -  ~ 2 kg?

If you want to get pro about this basically it's fat and vitamins! Fat weighs less per unit energy than sugar/starch so maximising fat and minimising fibre, carbohydrates and water is a good way to go. If you want fruit and veg, dehydrated weighs far less and anything like a banana sucks because of the weight of the skin.

> Alpkit Bru Kit  - 0.6 kg

titanium pot + pocket rocket is 0.15kg

> 2 x 100 g gas cannisters - 0.4 kg total

In the cold you will struggle to get the butane out of one of these that is a butane/propane mixture... do you get propane only cans?

> Misc (hat, gloves other bits) - 1 kg.

Maybe could be trimmed with lightweight gear? Probably depends on what all you have in this group and how much money you want to spend on lightweight gear!

> Or were we too ambitious with our distances?

Yes? Personally I plan on going an absolute max of 20 miles in a day and

Overall I'd say it comes down to the age old question of a balance of weight, comfort and cash. You can pay for lighter kit for sure but some of weight savings will also be down to what you personally are prepared to accept as a minimum comfort level. I once experimented with a sort of superlight, multilayer, tinfoil bivi bag for the weekend and decided after less than 1 night that biving wasn't for me and I'd stick to a tent from then on. But on the other hand, I am quite happy with a 3/4 length thermarest despite being very tall because I only really need insulation under neck to arse and then a waterproof or rucksack under my feet. So what level of comfort do you need? Maybe it's something to experiment with.

 olddirtydoggy 22 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

The solution sadly will come down to spending a lot of money. The warmth to weight ratio is the scale that will push a price up on clothing and sleeping bags. Titanium mugs, ultralight tents and mega light packs all come at a premium. Myself and the wife will carry around 11kg for 3 days in the cold months and that includes 2l of water each if we are in a peaty area with long distances.

Post edited at 22:35
 wbo2 22 Dec 2020
In reply to captain paranoia:

Would you really want to cook on meths in the winter? Melt snow etc? 

There comes a point where reducing weight becomes unproductive.  

But reexamine the rucksack choice 

Removed User 22 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

All winter I do 2 - 5 days climbing trips with all the hardware, and packs rarely weigh more than 10kg (its the food and gas that changes). What I think;

> Mammut trion spine 50 l - 2.2 kg

You'll easily get this down to sub 1kg with an alpine pack.

> Wild Country Helm 1 compact - 2 kg

Several sub-1kg tents around, or look at tarps.

> Helm 1 / Helm Compact 1 Footprint - ~0.2 kg??

Footprints are unnecessary unless it's rocky or you're in-situ for a while.

> Berghaus Elevation 600 - 1.26 kg

Depends how cold but 0c is doable with a bag under 1kg. 1.26kg of bag should get you to about -10c.

> EXPED SYNMAT HL WINTER - 0.6 kg

Using the foam from your pack you will get away with a lighter 3/4 mat. Have a look at the Nemo Zor, I use it down to -15c.

> Go Pro Kit - Not really Required - ~ 1 kg

Use phone. The world has enough Go-pro footage already.

> Chargers / Battery bank  - 0.5 kg

Without the Go-pro you'll get away with something tiny

> Water - 2 kg

If there's water on route then only need to carry 500ml at a time, and if it's cold consider bulk hydrating in camp and just running it out a bit in the day. Other wise use powdered water.

> Waterproofs and extra shitrs , socks - 2 kg??

For 3 days do you need extra? Just the sox maybe. For walking stuff I find cheap plastic ponchos work better than 

> Food for 3 days -  ~ 2 kg?

You'll get it down but it's a sliding scale of also eating well, so depends what those grams consist of. 

> 2 x 100 g gas cannisters - 0.4 kg total

Should that be 2 x 250's? Even with melting snow, a single new 250 will do two people for 2 nights, or 2 x 110's.

> Or were we too ambitious with our distances?

Also this. They may be closer in summer with longer days and less gear.

As typical, the answer here will be $$$ thrown at it, and the ultralight market is a blackhole for that with exotic materials and cottage production.

In reply to wbo2:

> Would you really want to cook on meths in the winter? Melt snow etc? 

Well that's a fair point, but it's unclear what season the OP is aiming at (even though they mentioned just getting back). 600g still seems heavy for a gas burner and pan; I have an inverted canister burner at 170g, and a 1l trangia pan is 80g.

 JStearn 22 Dec 2020

I recommend weighing everything and putting it in Lighterpack, you might see weight adding up in unforeseen places. Check out the forums at Backpackinglight for in-depth (sometimes OTT) lightweight gear discussion. Consecutive 35 mile days is going to get cumulatively harder with such a high base weight. For winter hiking in England I would aim for a base weight ~6kg (not including consumables: gas, food, water). You don't need loads of spare clothing, one good versatile set is enough. You could shave off ~3kg on your pack, sleeping bag and shelter. I would take a ~600g pyramid UL shelter and a 50l UL pack would be around 800g. Food usually works out around 800g/day. There's no need to carry that much water in the UK, I would take a UL filter. Waterproofs for hiking can be around 7-800g for jacket and overtrousers. That should get you started then it's usually a case of diminishing returns. Once you have lightened your pack you can also move to lighter weight footwear if you haven't already, which makes a big difference when you are doing long days. 

 BuzyG 23 Dec 2020
In reply to JStearn:

You don"t indicate how old or how well conditioned to walking you are.  35 miles a day is not a walk in the park, with winter kit, on hilly ground.   Even after you get your kit weight down.  I lost  16kg of fat after I returned to hill walking.  I could never lose that from my back pack.  If your already a racing snake then please completely ignore the above. But I though it worth mentioning.  There is often more than one way to solve a problem.

 JStearn 23 Dec 2020
In reply to BuzyG:

That's a good point and should be considered before ditching a load of perfectly good gear. Realistically, 35 mile days in winter are not sustainable and you would have to walk in the dark to maintain that pace but OP was only talking about 2 days so it should be feasible, if not enjoyable! If you look at people putting in consistent long days (50+ km) the main difference is not their speed but that they hike long hours, so weight fatigue is more of an issue. Usually they are doing this in very specific conditioms though (good weather, long days, easy to follow trails etc.)

 dan_waterston 23 Dec 2020
In reply to Removed Userwaitout:

> Other wise use powdered water.

Sounds expensive stuff...

 DaveHK 23 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

Have a Google for Mountain marathon packing lists/articles and take some notes.

With some thought and some spend* you could half that pack weight.

*Maybe quite a bit of spend...

And yes, 35 miles a day is pretty ambitious!

In reply to glenn0010:

You've had loads of excellent advice already. As others have said, there's definitely a lot of weight you can cut there, both by using lighter gear and by being more ruthless in what you bring.

This skills article on lightweight backpacking could be useful too: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/skills/series/skills/lightweight_bac...

In terms of the daily distance, 35 miles per day is clearly at the top end for a walker: you'd need to be maintaining a gruelling pace for hours and hours (more hours that we have daylight, at present). Add hills, weather and a too-heavy pack and it's no wonder you struggled. As you got more tired, your pace naturally dropped: as well as the other variables, it's worth asking if you slept well every night, and what you were eating both in the daytime to keep the energy up, and at night to aid recovery. If you're making that sort of effort for a few days, you can soon wear yourself down with inadequate TLC.

On something like the PW, a 20 mile day with a backpacking load on your back would be respectable, and that's a daily average you could maintain for ages. 

So there's way more to it than just the weight of your gear. Here's a more general advice piece on walking further and faster:

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/skills/series/expert_tips/walking_fu...

And if you're tempted to get radically into fast-and-light territory, then here's an article on Fastpacking. Horrid marketing term, it just means running/walking fast with the lightest pack you can get away with, consistent with not getting in trouble... Lily is suggesting a max total weight around half of yours, which shows what's possible if you're really dedicated:

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/skills/series/running/fastpacking_-_...

In reply to glenn0010:

Lots of good advice above. Thinkimg differently, I would suggest. 

Go in summer in stable weather, this reduces kit requirements hugely. 

Stay in a b and b. A credit card only weighs a few grammes. 

The above may sound flippant but 35mpd on consecutive days is a huge effort, stack the odds in your favour. 

 Tringa 23 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

I can't add anything to the good advice here already but can I ask why you decided on doing 35 miles a day?

Dave

 sheffieldchris 23 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

Lots of very good advice here relating to your questions.

This is just my 2 pence worth.

I looked at your profile and can see you have done a good bit of climbing and also a bit of Alpine climbing, so you are no novice in that field.

If you put a little more into your profile information people may have a better understanding of what level of advice to give.

It could be that you are a 35 year old national level ultra long distance runner with countless miles of single day walking/hiking/climbing but have now started into multi day walking.

Most people are rightly saying 35 miles a day is a very lot, but to you on one of your normal days out it could be a steady day, without the additional kit you are now carrying.

This is a good thread for a lot of people to pick up some great information.

 Andy Chubb 23 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

Not clear which section of the PW you walked, but if it was from the start then 28 miles is brutal. I did Edale to Wessenden Head in a oner and then to Hebden Bridge the next day and was pretty knackered. I wouldn't have wanted to continue doing 25 miles a day. That started my quest to lighten the pack.

You have some heavy kit there and you can make some big weight savings quite easily (though maybe not cheaply). I've become a bit obsessed with my pack weight and below is my kit list for the Ridgeway this year and the PW next year. This is for a multi day walk, camping all the way and restocking as I go.

Camping  gear

Gregory Rucsack 1060g

Ruc sac cover 100g

MSR Hubba NX 1252g

Footprint 138g

MH Ratio Sleeping bag 822g

Exped Dry bag (blue) 20g

Thermarest 2020 NeoAir XLite Regular Sleeping Mat 354g

Sea to Summit pillow 74g

Total camping gear 3820g

Cooking  equipment

MSR Pocket Rocket 73g

250g gas cylinder 380g

Cylinder legs 24g

Foil windshield 10g

Ti Pan / Mug 147g

Ti Spoon 9g

Lighter x2 16g

Scourer 8g

Platypus 1Lt Water bottles x 2 48g

MSR Trailshot filter 140g

  Total cooking gear 855g

Hygiene  

Large S2S Towel 42g

Wash kit 100 g

Toilet roll / Wipes 200 g

Mozzy headnet 20 g

Coughlans Trowel 52g

Doggy bags 1 g

  Total 415g

Spare Clothes  

Bridgedale Walking socks x 2 prs 140g

Bridgedale Coolmax Liner socks x 1 prs 70g

Pants x 2 110 g

Long Sleeve walking shirt 210g

Ron Hills 250g est

Fleece 200g est

Sleep shorts 50g est

1 x T shirts 100g est

Exped dry bag (yellow) 15g est

Sliders 80g

  Total spare clothes 1225g

Rain Gear  

Arcteryx waterproof 350g

Waterproof trousers 100g

  Total Rain Gear 450g

Bits and Pieces  

Charger, plug and cable 210 

Tiny torch 17 

Penknife 60 

Medical kit 100 

Keppra 10 

Compeed 20 

Vaseline 20 

Earplugs 1 

Zip lock bags for phone 2 

Poly bag for wet tent 2 

Glasses 80 

Cards & Cash 50 

 Total 572g

Total 'base weight' 7337g

2 day food and water 3000g (max)

Total rucksack weight 10337g

OP glenn0010 23 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

Thanks for all the great advice!

So this was my first real go of multi day hiking so very green on it. So I went throughall your great advice and her'es a list.

lighter bag - 1 kg
1 gas cannister - 0.2 kg only needed one
Lighter cook system - 0.7 kg

Tent : 

Options:
1- Get a ligther tent - any reccomendations?
2- ditch the fooprint - 0.2 kg
3- Pitch only the outer and the footprint of the tent ? Save weight on the Inner? guessing about - 0.7 kg? Will it be too cold?

Just Carry a water filter  - had the sawyer squeeze but the pocuh burst on me immideatly.

Ditch the battery banks - 0.5 kg

Clothing wise I took 2 extra shirts which I didn't use and could have ditched 2 pairs of underwear as well. so can save maybe 0.5 kg there.

Fittnes wise, I'm 26 and done a few ultra's. We did hike through early dark morning hours and deep into the dark night's as well. Especailly on the first day. I think the first day really played a part in slowing us down for the next 2.

Why 35 miles? We wanted to go from Edale to Hawes in 3 days as a reccie for the spine race.

Still an enjoaybale experience. Just trying to learn from it.

 DaveHK 23 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

> 3- Pitch only the outer and the footprint of the tent ? 

That's definitely false economy in my opinion.

 nufkin 23 Dec 2020
In reply to Andy Chubb:

At the risk of sounding like a smartarse, you could save yourself 100g by leaving the rucksack cover behind. It looks like you're putting stuff in drybags anyway, and, more importantly, rucksack covers make you look like a punter

1
 tjdodd 23 Dec 2020
In reply to nufkin:

> At the risk of sounding like a smartarse, you could save yourself 100g by leaving the rucksack cover behind. It looks like you're putting stuff in drybags anyway, and, more importantly, rucksack covers make you look like a punter

And when it blows away you are stuffed if everything is not in dry bags anyway.  

OP glenn0010 23 Dec 2020
In reply to nufkin:

No rucksack covers in sight!

 tehmarks 23 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

> 1- Get a ligther tent - any reccomendations?

I have a Big Agnes Seedhouse SL2 — about 1200g. They also make lighter tents, and you can also go with a one man version for further weight reduction. I used it as my only tent for several years, so the extra space of the two man was welcome (necessary, even) when using it as a base or in campsites. These days it's still my only tent option for hill use, but I have a Robens tipi thing for campsites and longer-term camping.

I'd happily use that tent most places in England, in all seasons.

> 3- Pitch only the outer and the footprint of the tent ? Save weight on the Inner? guessing about - 0.7 kg? Will it be too cold?

The only two times I've done that, I've regretted it. The first was in the Lakes on a multi-day walk a few years ago. I camped at Esk Haus and got the tent up about five minutes before a storm hit. I spent the entire night trying to keep my sleeping bag out of the ever-growing puddles while the tent was virtually flattened by the wind. It survived with no damage, no drama there, but it was not a restful night! The second time was this summer around Rylstone, and the midges were just unbearable. Again, not such a restful night.

> Fittnes wise, I'm 26 and done a few ultra's. We did hike through early dark morning hours and deep into the dark night's as well. Especailly on the first day. I think the first day really played a part in slowing us down for the next 2.

I did the West Highland Way a couple of years ago with a work colleague who was at the beginning of his hillwalking journey, camping the entire way, aiming for five days. We had quite a long day the first day, and my partner never really recovered from the exertion. He was struggling on the second day, really struggled for the first few hours of the next day, and had to turn back at the top of Loch Lomond. You'll obviously have a much better idea of how to pace yourself from your ultra experience — but once you're on the slippery slope of overdoing it, it's very hard to pull it back I think. 35 miles is a solid effort with pack even without nasty terrain!

 Andy Chubb 23 Dec 2020
In reply to nufkin:

I have to agree with you. Thanks

 Stairclimber 23 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

Interesting to read the replies. My comments would be that every little reduction helps but never skimp on food intake! Supplementing en route helps.

 dread-i 23 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

>Why 35 miles? We wanted to go from Edale to Hawes in 3 days as a reccie for the spine race.

You've got another month to recce. Start has been delayed to Feb, if it goes ahead at all.

I'm in a similar boat. I bought a minimal rucksack, which saves 1kg. An alpkit pipedream 400, which meets spec and saves 1kg over my synthetic, and more importantly packs down to half the size.  I got a tiny titanium burner from ebay that weights 17g and cost <£20. The rucksack is a bit too minimal, so I've added some molle system pouches for poles and admin (gps, cash, phone, snacks.)

I'm taking a water filter, no shortage of water at this time of the year. One thing you may want to play with is dried food. The co-op, have a few options that just need hot water: cupa soups, couscous, readybrek sachets, sachets of coffee/ chocolate drink, smash type mash potato, pasta 'n sauce. A pinch of chilli flakes in a twist of paper, weight nothing but will perk up most things. Worth testing what works before hand. The pasta 'n sauce works with hot water and then leave it for 10 mins. The instant rice is still crunchy after sitting for 10 mins.

I'd suggest getting some kitchen scales and weighing everything. Make a spread sheet, then you can easily compare with what you have and whats available.

Post edited at 17:30
 Toerag 23 Dec 2020
In reply to Tony Buckley:

> Also, clothes.  Only what your wear to walk in and a dry t-shirt, pants and leggings for the evening.  No-one said you had to be presentable, or even not smell, and sometimes you have to accept that you're going to be putting damp clothes on in the morning.

This is the jungle clothing system - one set you wear in the day which gets wet and mucky instantly as you thrash through wet vegetation, and one set for in camp in the evening.

to the OP - if there's two of you you don't need any spare batteries etc, your partners stuff is the spare. You can also share things like a mug, tent, cookpot, spoon and should eat / drink the same stuff to gain efficiency there.

 bouldery bits 24 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

> No rucksack covers in sight!

I hate rucksack covers with a scarcely believable fervour. 

They should be banned. 

1
 Dr.S at work 24 Dec 2020
In reply to bouldery bits:

> I hate rucksack covers with a scarcely believable fervour. 

> They should be banned. 

They are weird.

1
 BuzyG 24 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

> Thanks for all the great advice!

> Fittnes wise, I'm 26 and done a few ultra's. We did hike through early dark morning hours and deep into the dark night's as well. Especailly on the first day. I think the first day really played a part in slowing us down for the next 2.

> Why 35 miles? We wanted to go from Edale to Hawes in 3 days as a reccie for the spine race.

> Still an enjoyable experience. Just trying to learn from it.

Multi day is quite different to one day ultra.  I know I am tired the next day, if I push at normal one day pace first day. Mind I'm a little older. So conditioning your body to multi day and getting the pace, feeding right will probably make a big difference.  Carrying less weight helps.  But it's only one part.  Filling water bottles from a filter takes time too. So again you need balance what you carry with how long you spend filling up, if you don't start with enough for the full day. 

Alas looks like the Spine race is off this year.

 tehmarks 24 Dec 2020
In reply to bouldery bits:

Along with map cases?

I've never really understood why waterproof sacks are not more common. Pretty much my favourite feature of the Arc'teryx bag that I have, particularly in the UK!

 HardenClimber 24 Dec 2020
In reply to Dr.S at work:

Depends...

I was never a fan, but have recently found a place for them

If you have an old leaky rucksack which is otherwise comfortable and light they can gather a lot of water in heavy rain (might try weighing it, but I could easily imagine 250g). It surprised me how well rucksack covers work in really wet weather. Add a bit of cord as a leash...then they don't disappear.

Only decision then is whether the weight is worth it.

 Dr.S at work 24 Dec 2020
In reply to tehmarks:

Yes - I’ve got a MH outdry scrambler 35 - weighs about 800g, fully waterproof and pretty bomber - that’s what I use for summer trips with about 4 days food.

 willpitt07 24 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

+1 for dread-i's suggestion of the small titanium stoves. I have a BRS one which is >£20 on amazon which I pair with a Toaks 450ml titanium mug (76g). Total cook system is just over 100g. I also only boil 2 pots of water a day so usually only take 1 100g canister for 3 days.

I also have a Big Agnes Tiger Wall UL-3 (~1200g). Which fits 2 guys and kit nicely.

Removed User 24 Dec 2020
In reply to dan_waterston:

> Sounds expensive stuff...

The cheap stuff from Asian supermarkets works fine, but tastes a little different.

 Toerag 26 Dec 2020
In reply to HardenClimber:

The factory-fitted rucsac cover on my Lowe Cerro Torre was worth its weight in gold one horrendous day in Norway. Even though it ended up with a puddle in the bottom it kept most of the sac dry, which was good for all the bits&bobs which didn't go in drybags. I always use my main compartments as one big one lined with a binsack which works well.

 petegunn 27 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

What have you got on your feet? Heavy walking boots or shoes can make a huge difference that many forget to think about. 

100g on your feet is 1kg on your back - not sure if this is true but I've heard it many times!

 Scott K 30 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

Can't add much to the good advice already given but I use plastic for a groundsheet - same stuff that they use for secondary glazing and lasts well.

My bag is a PHD which weighs about 600g and good to 0 deg. Use a down jacket in it if I feel cold.

No need for spare underwear for 3 days. I keep leggings and shirt for clean night wear which could also be used if needed during the day. I do always take 3 pairs of socks and extra gloves.

Tent - much lighter alternatives. Tarptent do some very light DCF tents but it is really down to what you want and how much you spend. 

Sleeping mat - i would be careful here as it is important to be comfortable - again, very personal.

On a multi day trip, I always plan easier days for the first 3 days especially if it is early in the season. That way you can always go further. I have done some long distance 2 day trips but with a much lighter pack in good weather and know that I will be knackered at the end of it.

 Diddy 30 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

By way of comparison, and I hope help,this is my Kit list of around 6.41Kg.

Used in all conditions, cold temperatures including the odd snow night. I have used this on the John Muir Trail USA - Mt Whitney 14 K feet, the GR5,1000+ mile Appalachian Trail (AT) all 19 GB national trails and other European Alp trips.

However beware. Buy well or buy twice. My gear list is not cheap: it does cost to change gear and some I have changed twice. During my first trip on the AT I just about changed everything including my Go lite Tarp to a poncho tarp for the last two weeks when in a good weather .

Waterproof Jacket & Legs =, Zlite Poncho if needed acts as backpack cover and extra ground cloth, ULA rain wrap
Windproof/light rain = OR Helium hoody
Insulated Jacket = Montbell Thermawrap

Underpants = Paramo 

Thermals= Paramo long johns, silk long johns and T shirts to sleep in.
Scarf = Buff
Socks = Bridgedale Trekker, two pair, one worn, 1pr Otter waterproof socks.

Footwear = Scott Kinabalu Supertrac trail runners
Rucksack = Zpacks ArcBlast, Cuben fibre liner and cuben fibre stuff sacks, ZPacks 4:1 multipac/ bumbag +.
Mapping = Memory Map GB 1.25K on Lenovo 2 phone, OS maps and printed A4 sheets with zip freezer bag for extra waterproofing in map case.
Kit Powerbank charger, or my old smart phone(also has MMap on it). If very remote Garmin Etrex for back up as well.
Camera –on phone

Shelter= Tarptent Notch or TarpTent Moment in late Autumn/Winter, or lightweight tarp.

Mountain Hardware Summerlite sleeping bag and silk liner, Mountain Laurel Designs Superlite bivvy bag.

Stove = Caldera clone alcohol setup/woodburning Infernal Cone. Water treatment Sawyer Squeeze/ Aquaventure tabs

Sleeping pad = Klymit ¾ inflatable. Sea to Summit pillow.

PacerPoles from PacerPoles

Worn

Mountain Hardware zip-off trousers

Rohan or Paramo long sleeved shirt

Rohan long sleeved Tee shirt

Paramo underpants

Hat =wide brimmed.

1 pair Bridgedale Trekker socks.

Base weight=6.41 Kg. I often set off with three days food with a total weight of around 9Kg

The Lenovo phone is heavy; about 175 gm, however it has large (about 3 days continuous use) so a charger is not always necessary. On longer treks it can go longer than three days as I switch on only if off route as I use the paper maps most of the time.

Post edited at 11:56
 Martin Haworth 30 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

So you’ve done a few ultras and you are looking at the spine race, so my advice would be:

Ditch everything on your list, wear light shoes and clothes, carry an ultra light day sack containing energy snacks a bit of water and an insulated waterproof(total combined weight 2kgs). Then with a positive attitude...go for it and do all 70 miles in a day!

(Obviously take a phone in case you fail and need to call for help)

Post edited at 14:05
 tjdodd 30 Dec 2020
In reply to glenn0010:

In addition to all the good advice above on reducing weight I think it is really important to factor in plenty of regular rests on multiday hikes.  I am really bad at resting when doing just day hikes (often do 4+ hours without really stopping) but on multiday hikes I aim to rest every hour for about 5-10 minutes.  The amount of rest needed will vary between people but try to avoid just ploughing on hour after hour just to cover lots of ground.  

 oldie 31 Dec 2020
In reply to petegunn:

> 100g on your feet is 1kg on your back - not sure if this is true but I've heard it many times! <

That x10 difference is huge, I've only seen lower values before eg x5 (no idea how they estimate it). Even so its a useful point.


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