UKC

With the advent of increasingly weatherproof softshell jackets like the Patagonia Kniferidge to what extent does everyone think hardshell jackets are becoming redundant? Of course hardshell jackets will always have a place as a 'storm layer', I'm more thinking of as a constant outer layer.

In reply to ROSP:

Haven't you just answered your own question?

In reply to Tyler:

Note: "Thinking of as a constant outer layer"

In reply to ROSP:



No one ever wore them constantly!

In reply to MG:

Okay, I give up... the wording wasn't great.

In reply to ROSP:

I think the answer is no, but perhaps they don't need to be as heavy as previously

In reply to ROSP:

I only ever wear them if it's lashing down and consequently only take one with me if there is a reasonable probability of being rained on and possibly if I feel the evil eye of the 'poorly equipped punter gets hypothermia' demon fasten upon me.

Snow doesn't count as lashing down

In reply to ROSP:

I think rain coats will always have a place.

In reply to ROSP:

Multi-day/week trekking in rainy conditions?

In reply to MG:

Off duty coppers, dog walkers and people in Northern towns do.

In reply to ROSP:

Have you ever been to scotland in winter?

In reply to ROSP:


Decreasingly waterproof is more accurate.

In reply to Mike Highbury:


Only Southerners in Northern towns.

Proper northerners are happy with the weatherproof qualities of a string vest.

In reply to neuromancer:

Yes... Mostly in my membrane softshell!

In reply to ROSP:
As long as there are folk who follow the latest 'must have' outdoor trend then the answer to your own question is yes.

For the outdoor folk like me who don't drool and scrutinise every new fashion trend and don't fancy spending hundreds of pounds on the latest trend then the answer is no.

I'm quite happy with the fleece I bought at 'Yorkshire Trading' made by the label Rydale Clothing. It fits like a glove - and that is probably the most important factor in clothing. It doesn't have any fancy gadget holes (what were those zipped pockets in shoulder for? And now I;ve seen them appear near the cuff?), its reasonably windproof. And unlike the gear nerds it only costs £35 and because it doesn;t follow fashion I'm pretty certain I can still buy the model when this one wears out in ten years time. Under the old fashioned hard shell I've used it in the adverse conditions Scotland can throw around in winter and its windproof enough on cold chilly days not to need a windproof.

I've just googled the jacket you mention. This has caused me major apoplexy £200-£300 for a fleece? You must be mad - oh, and rich.

However, all my thoughts will be wasted as your jacket will look far more 'cool; in the pub than mine.

In reply to ROSP:

Okay, thanks all for the somewhat constructive replies! Seems people get rather defensive about their hardshell jackets...

In reply to Dave Perry:
My Patagonia shell was bought for £110 in a sale which for me at least even as a student didn't exactly break the bank... you seem rather bitter for some bizarre reason? Don't worry, you're not obligated to change to my Gear!

In reply to ROSP:
In reply to Dave Perry


In my student days I'd have taken his £35 jacket and £80 worth of Guinness thank you very much.

In reply to ROSP:

Is your Kniferidge anymore breathable than a light knit Gore-Tex Pro jacket? I would say not much, but it is heavier and less weatherproof so isn't much different to a hardshell except if feels a bit nicer to wear?

For, say, Scottish winter I'd be wearing a thin non-membrane softshell on a good forecast and a hardshell on a bad one. I would say a membrane softshell would work for both scenarios, but do a worse job. The advantage of having two jackets is that I can use them both year round, whereas the membrane softshell would be winter only piece.

P.S. Patagucci Kniferidge for £110, that is a rare bargain!

In reply to ROSP:

I have one jacket, it's an evnt thing from Crux (flak probably, I bought it 2nd hand on here). That's what I wear winter climbing and skiing all the time. In summer, I have an ancient ME thing that is very light goretex. I wear everything to the very end of their lives (probably well past their best by date in term of properties).

I always grovel in chimneys and off-width cracks in winter so it's hard shell all the way for me because constant contact with a wettish medium means I'll get wet.

In reply to galpinos:


I've climbed for two winters in my Kniferidge. It is night and day more breathable than any Goretex outfit. Miles more comfortable. Also less waterproof but certainly weatherproof enough for most Scottish days.

In reply to ROSP:

>... you seem rather bitter for some bizarre reason?.

Not at all Ross. You asked for my opinion regarding these jackets and you got it. It wasn't directed at you personally -except when I saw the price!!!

In reply to BnB:


I stand corrected!

In reply to galpinos:

To put a bit of meat on the bones I've worn the Kniferidge for about 20 winter climbing days in Scotland and the Lakes. It's much more durable as well as more breathable than a hardshell and it will resist snow and contact with ice all day long. Only in a prolonged and persistent downpour will it wet out. And I'm talking proper Scottish. Even then the right midlayer means you don't really worry about the ingress of water as it's pretty minimal. it's much nicer than a hardshell to wear over a tee shirt with no midlayer on drizzly walk-ins as well. Cold, damp hardshell sleeve on bare skin anyone? Nevertheless if I know it's going to rain all day I'll reach for the hardshell. Who needs to endure rain anxiety?

In reply to Dave Perry:
As an aside, this year I've bought 3 second hand 'vintage' gore tex jackets off fleebay.
Berghaus ? Glissade for the Mrs. Bro in law bought one for £180, I got it for £45.
Berghaus Mera Peak old style for me, £300 quid new, got it for £50.
Sprayway Aspen for me dad, £40.
All these jackets are in mint condition, and a fraction of the cost of one of these new, crap jackets that seem to have a 2 year shelf life.

To the o/p. No, I don't think that hard shells have had their day for British use in wet weather.

In reply to Dave the Rave:

Charity shops are good too Dave. I got a Japanese made & branded goretex jacket too for £5. Branded fleeces too including a North Face, and one of those windproof fleeces. Still had the tags in.

Its lovely when clothing goes out of fashion and ends up in charity shops.

In reply to ROSP:

There's an old journalistic adage that when a headline is couched as a question, the answer is always "No".
Seems to apply here too, even by your own admission.