UKC

Record and analyse your climbs, compare your performance with other athletes and monitor your own progress. Climbax includes two wristbands equipped with high-precision sensors to record every climbing movement. 

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I guess it was inevitable that somebody was going to try this.

Stating the obvious - Garmin has had the ability to record climbing in various watches for 18 months or so.

Seeing the correlation between this mammut data and heart rate might be interesting.

"During a climbing session you can leave your smartphone behind".

What a breakthrough. Truly liberating.

What a shame about that post being removed for inappropriate language. With those wrist movement trackers, it really could be put to that use. Though, come to think of it, Is one actually aiming for more or fewer wrist movements (when climbing, obviously)?

Yeah, it would be like Strava for perverts

Is that product name really pronounced "climax"? Should this not have been an April 1st news article?

It records the number of wrist movements taken to climbax. Seems appropriate.

....unless you are using it as a guidebook and to take photos

Chris

Didn’t see the removed post but can probably guess the content.

Many years ago, I noticed on Map my Run, you could logs stats under the heading of “intimacy”.

How well would it hold up in a grit fist jam at Wimberry?

Just checking the date? my PC says 15th June, but I'm wondering if that's an error as the climbax/climax wrist monitor is clearly a 1st of April thing

Hopefully they are also releasing bluetooth enabled quickdraws and smart rock shoes to integrate with this system. 

Thank goodness someone solved this "problem" we all have, how did anyone manage before

If you click on the link in the OP. it still displays the offending message........

Always intrigued by new technology but I struggle to see this being useful. From what I gather the metrics it logs are meters climbed, time spent climbing and number of moves. So it doesn't seem to take into account difficulty of moves, force exerted etc. Without difficulty being taken into account the metrics are pretty useless, and 'good' performance would equate to climbing as many easy routes as possible within a session.

I can just imagine the UKC team sat there cringing whislt looking at this product, knowing they have to post this stuff up, knowing it's literally called the 'climbax' and already knowing what response it will get, but pressing the enter button anyway. 

And then what are the Mammut people thinking seeing their ridiculous product ridiculed? Ask for the thing to be pulled? I remember a particularly hilarious clothing "product news" on here disappearing after merciless piss-takking. Maybe it actually is meant to be a joke - it is impossible to see what use this gizmo is. It really would be worrying if there actually is a market for it.

I can kind of understand wanting to track performance at an elite level, but when your at that level I'd have thought most of a training routine would consist of core exercises, campusing, finger boards and a lot of antagonistic work? During those activities how much use would this product really be? I may be wrong, but it seems like a gimmick for punters with too much cash.

Careful now...

People seem to love fitness trackers in general (fitbit, garmin watches, apple watch fitness features etc.) so there's a market for it, though as you say it's whether Mammut's product provides enough functionality to hook people in.

Look at the photo again. They're way ahead of you.....

Actually interestingly enough the elite climbers I know are mostly following the rule of 70-80% of training time being movement specific i.e. on the wall with shoes on in some format. This is especially true for the competition climbers for whom maximum exposure to different types of movement and grip type is crucial as they are basically experts in the flash/onsight style. 

I can appreciate Roberts comments about the highly specific/slightly weird nature of this product, but from a sports science perspective there are certainly several advantages to the KPI's this equipment can produce. A competition training example would be as follows: 

Climber A and Climber B spend 5 minutes reading and discussing route beta. They both agree that the crux revolves around controlling a poor pinch with the left hand and jumping into a positive hold with the right hand. Climber A climbs to the pinch and falls, whereas Climber B looks stronger on the pinch and sticks the jump, thereby topping the route. 

Neither climber can comment on why precisely they performed how they did, but looking at the data from hand movements and time intervals, it becomes clear that Climber B spent more time shaking out the left arm before moving into the crux sequence. This allowed them to come fresher to the bad hold and thereby complete the sequence. 

Climber A can now focus on pairing visualisation with practice, including specifically when it is appropriate to deliberately fatigue one arm in order to have the other one fresher. Climber B can take their instinctive practice and apply it consciously on subsequent routes, leading to further successes.  

I think for the average climber the data produced is relatively challenging to interpret in a meaningful way, but paired with a coach who can use it to inform workload, movement patterns, tactics etc it looks like an interesting addition to the coaching toolbox. It's all about considering which data is relevant in which context and how to apply it properly to functional practice  

(I do think the name is a poor choice for the english speaking market.)

Yes, I have been using my Fenix 6 to count bouldering routes versus heartrate whilst warming up/cooling down. Never wear a watch when climbing properly but no real jamming/thrutching to worry about at my wall so little danger of damage. I get a count, supply a grade and effort is quantified from heartrate - so it adds to the day's training. No earthly use when attempting harder problems of course...

But is a gizmo really necessary to identify and analyse what is going on in that scenario? It is pretty basic stuff that any reasonable experienced climbed will be familiar with that if you know or think you have a hard move coming up off one hand then it is worth trying to get that arm properly shaken out.

Sorry, I think it is just gimmicky bollocks for the purpose of relieving the gullible of their money.

Quantative evidence is always good IMO There's all sorts of funny methods and things that professionals in various areas use which may seem unnecessary to the layman but provide specificity and reliability of method which can be used as part of the bigger picture. It's rather like saying that calculators are unnecessary because an experienced mathematician could do the sums mentally.

In your example the experienced climber will possibly pick out 1-2 examples of poor technique etc. This mammut device provides the ability for all the movement to be analysed in a data format which may provide a different perspective and allow for issues to be teased out that may not have been recognised from regular video analyses etc. 

Of course, that doesn't mean you have to use it or like it  

This punter won't be buying one!

I'd have thought for movement tracking and analysis, video recording would work far better? 

Yes, obviously far better. But people are more easily seduced by data downloaded to their smartphone apparently.

Stroke length shall be the most important factor, surely. 

Also cadence.

Hmm, that's physically pre determined and will vary greatly I think.

Edit: maybe Mammut will have to release a standardised training aid?

Those long bendy cylinders that people use for elbow rehab would work.

Another ploy to separate those with more money than sense from their obviously not too hard earned wedge. "They saw you coming "seems the obvious response to anyone you see with one.

At last! An irrefutable method to, once and for all, truly separate the Rock Gods from the fat, sad also-rans. You can't argue with hard fact.

Video is great but doesn't allow to easily isolate variables such as how long each specific hold was held and similar information. This could be well combined with video analysis to form a robust feedback tool. 

It seems UKC is mainly interested in masturbation jokes though so I'll probably leave it at that

Oh dear, that really is taking it too far.

Down with this sort of thing!

Then up.
 

Then down again

Oh cum on! It's even called climbax. The jokes write themselves! 

Yea, I imagine Mammut could have a hard time selling it to this crowd, they don't really get pumped up about such products.

I wonder how it would work for rehab exercises - with one (or two?) of those squeezey balls, or rotating a bit of rope around a shaft for climbers elbow?

You could try suggesting this to the manufacturer but I suspect you might get a rather limp response?

Coming soon - Mammut's latest member of their training line-up youtube.com/watch?v=rwIJlEsIVZQ&

Why are those women all laughing?

Has this not been in the pipeline for some time? I could be making it up but I'm sure I recall a UKC or social media post describing research into such a device at one of the UK sports science departments - Loughborough or Sheffield maybe? This was at least 2-3 years ago.

I was skeptical then that the KPIs would be of particular use, and I remain so.

As suggested, if someone was really looking for a computer science project then automated video analysis would seem to be a much more productive (though perhaps less profitable) avenue.

Agreed - sticking a load of ping-pongs balls on a climber, doing full-body motion capture and crunching the raw data would yield far more useful info than a pair of pricey bracelets. I doubt the Mammut app even gives the (maybe useful in some way) accelerometer data in any other form than "distance travelled", judging by the blurb on the advert. Far too simplified to be useful at any significant level of performance climbing.

I love this. You offer some interesting insight into potential use of a a gizmo and get dislikes just for breaking the masturbation joke dream state.

I do appreciate that if you never have any intention of climbing to your potential then any gizmo is pointless but as a coach you are tweaking percentages. With a performance athlete the big stuff has already been dealt with so tools such as this allow for the minutiae to be discovered and worked upon.

Tis a great name though

Excellent, however it has been succeeded by this! Out next week!!!

youtube.com/watch?v=iA11rek6_Ik&

I'd put money on a few sponsored elite climbers being contracted to be seen using this and then the market (if any) being for gullible punters for whom it will do nothing.

Ultimately, I agree. That's business unfortunately.

It would be interesting in a car crashy sort of way, to establish how many billions worldwide have been wasted (not just to lockdown) on sporty info gadgets and clothing/equipment etc. in the last 10 years.

How many gadgets are sitting in drawers, the batteries having died long ago.

I think, for a shopper with a need for more activity and no knowledge, seeing that you might be able to record and control your activity and somehow that will allow you to create a brighter future and a ""better version of you"", which of course is an important aim in today's enlightened world, is... enough to get credit cards in use?

I've worked in Marketing and PR and they are a dark bunch. They genuinely believe in the shit they peddle, which incidentally and invariably is stuff no one ever needed. 

Yes here it is - an old Kickstarter project. Looks like it's taken a while to bring to market.

https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?topic=23414.0

Paha, best thing you can do on UKC is turn those dislikes off 🤣

But how many people bought gadgets through lockdown and find them useful/motivational?  I love my Garmin Fenix and the data I get from it.

I’ve seen so many more people out running, cycling, walking and so on over the last 16 months and that’s great.  I bet plenty of them are using gadgets that they’re happy with.

No dislikes that I've seen.

MischaHY's comments at Weds at 9.55 and 14.15. Insightful, interesting and innoffensive on every level. I guess the dislikes smack a little of "knowledge is evil".... always amusing..

Inoffensive, but he seemed to me to be clutching at straws to come up with ways in which this thing might be useful.

I don't doubt you are right. The uptake in Fitness and Leisure has been noticeable to everyone but, I suspect, more give up than those who find something they like and stick with it.

I've got the impression over the years that few people who purchased HRM's or fitness tools use them to actually assist in their development, more in a "did I do better or worse than last time or over a set period" way, which is fine but fails to utilise the equipments potential.

I definitely know guys and girls who use their kit to steer their ambitions..

I think I this is a reflection of people in general. There are people who see life as a long term project and then there are are those that do the New Year’s resolution gym memberships and yo-yo diets.

Fair enough although not exactly showered with them. I wouldn't make a general observation about a group of people based on the reaction of two individuals

Although this device doesn't do it, it might be possible for a future product to use sensors on the wrist to determine how much force was being exerted by fingers.  Or measure the degree of pump.

Not a generalisation, is it? (Rhetorical). I likened the behaviour so due to there being nothing in Mischay's post to offend or cause distaste. It could always be his mates who were sitting next to him? Who cares, I found it amusing.

Now that's sorted, you can continue not making generalisations or suggesting to others that they shouldn't either.