UKC

The Super Hero Jacket isn't only for Super Heroes, and just to prove that point, Marmot sent me one to test. I don't do any saving the world activities, but I do get out climbing a lot – and I dragged this jacket along with me.

Read more: http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=687

In reply to Jack Geldard - Assistant Editor:

Read your review of this jacket. I have to disagree with your points about the hood.
If I am looking at a mountain/ winter jacket then the jacket should have a proper, helmet fitted, adjustable and full weight hood IMO. strikes me more as a reasonable weather jacket, with a token hood 'just in case'. This jacket would not fit the bill for my idea of a mountain jacket due to this.
Also your point about a fold away hood looking better doesn't apply to me. I like jackets with their hoods out.

Davie

In reply to Wee Davie: Agree on this, I also have a marmot softshell with a zip away hood. I always keep it out and use it over a helmet, but its not very good and doesn't offer much protection. I'm not sure why they bother really, unless its for people who forget hats regularly. If you are going to have a hood, you might as well have a good one. The North Americans never seem to make very good hoods, they clearly don't want them to do the same thing as Europeans do (not just the UK, because the best hoods I've seen are Haglöfs'). Does your Rab one have a good hood?

Jack - does it have a two-way zip? Mine does and I hate it as it starts coming undone quite easily. Again god knows why they put it on who uses a soft shell like a belay jacket over a harness?

In reply to TobyA:

My Rab Fusion jacket has an excellent hood.
I'm a bit concerned that the review of this Marmot Super Hero has comments like 'would be at home on the Eiger'. That, to me, that means it should function adequately in a howling full on blizzard.
I would ask that the UKC testers actually use jackets etc as fully as possible before reporting back. Jack Geldard comments he will use the jacket in La Grave, which I would argue is likely to be a less serious use than as a full mtn outer shell.
Hope I don't appear needlessly critical here.

Davie

In reply to Wee Davie:

in his defence that read to me like someone having a go at a journalistic-y ending - read in the context of the test environment of a wet day in wales i wouldn't have taken it too seriously

and on the hood thing the review does go on at some length about it's failings

In reply to rich:

What about beginner winter and Alpine climbers reading that 'journalistic-y ending'? I would argue that it is misleading to them.

Davie

In reply to Wee Davie:
'would be at home on the Eiger'.

I don't think it would be.

1 - It doesn't have have real hood, If a jacket doesn't have a descent hood then you are going to be reaching for your shell with the first fleck of spindrift.

2 -It is made of Gore Windstopper, which although it stops wind, it also stopps sweat from escaping quickly too. Meaning that the Jacket is only as (un)breathable as a real waterproof, without the added of being actually waterproof.

That, to me, that means it should function adequately in a howling full on blizzard.


It probably is a jacket suitable for mincing about in La Grave, But I doubt I would be any good at all Ponit 5 or similar; a route which I would happily wear a proper softshell on.

Nope, If you are going to review a jacket do it properly.

In reply to Wee Davie:


This is a very fair point but of course you tend to be limited by the time you get something and where you are in the world. I got some DMM krabs to try in late autumn and it was really annoying that between work and the weather it was a couple of weeks before I could try them climbing, and since I've had very little chance to use them again due to weather. My review of them is very much meant as a first impression, and I'll add more once I've used them more. Hopefully Jack can do the same and might well note after the ice climbing trip something like "good jacket, but let down by a rubbish hood".

In reply to TobyA:
I got some DMM krabs to try in late autumn and it was really annoying that between work and the weather it was a couple of weeks before I could try them climbing, and since I've had very little chance to use them again due to weather.

I have helmet sitting at home waiting to be review too. What with school, year 13 coursework and crappy lakes wether I havn't managed to get out to even breifly use it.

In reply to Jack Geldard - Assistant Editor:

I had a Gore Windstopper jacket about five years ago. Perhaps Gore have made Windstopper more breathable than when I had it, but I got rid of it after a year because it just didn't breathe.

In those days Windstopper wasn't marketed as a "softshell" like it is today. In my opinion Windstopper is a very poor softshell because of it's lack of breathability.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Windstopper is a great fabric for certain activities (dog walking & going to Sainsbury's) but if you expect to do any aerobic activity, leave it at home.

In reply to TobyA & Tam:

Don't worry boys. I'm not having a pop at you (yet).
When your next reviews appear for 'belay underpants' or whatever, I'll mercilessly slate them then.

Cheers

Davie

In reply to Wee Davie:

(now that is an idea, do you think there is the market for a powerstretch posing pouch?

>or whatever, I'll mercilessly slate them then.
Windcheaters should pop up sometime this week!

In reply to Wee Davie:


I don't have a pair to try but actually I think these belay pants look really trick. http://www.barrabes.com/barrabes/product.asp?pf_id=10324 Do you think they do a Y-front version as well?

In reply to Jack Geldard - Assistant Editor:

Hi Guys, to answer various questions arising from the review:

Wee Davie: "I Have to disagree with your points about the hood".

Fair enough, the great thing about UKC reviews is that they are linked to a forum and you can have your say. - I said "I was a little disappointed.. folded away to look more streetwise... Not as good as a full weight hood..better than a wet head" I then followed up with "I think the jacket will mainly be used with the hood tucked away, and if you're caught out – then it's good enough to stop spindrift from going down your neck, and it fits over a helmet easily"

I can't really sum up the hood any better than that, even with it sat here on my lap. If I'd have thought it was great - I would have said 'it's great'. If I'd have thought it was rubbish, I'd have said 'it's rubbish'. It's in the middle. The possible good points of folding away and looking 'streetwise' don't affect you. You now know that you wouldn't buy this jacket and perhaps I have done my job as a reviewer?

Toby A: The zip on the front is a one ended zip. The hood zip didn't come undone on me at all. I also had the hood out all of the time. Maybe they've changed the zips on both bits since you got yours?

Wee Davie/Tom R: Eiger comments. Hopefully I'll be able to let you know how it gets on in March. However to quote Robert Jasper on his fairly recent ascent of Yeti:

“The warm weather made it pretty comfortable, allowing us to climb in soft-shell jackets, although we had to take care not to get cold during brakes[sic]. It was important to keep the rhythm.”

Tom R: "If you're going to review a jacket then do it properly"

I think I can put my hand on my heart and say I gave a fair review of the jacket. I pointed out both good and bad features. I'll continue to do so in my future reviews. I realised that some people (Wee Davie for instance) would want a full weight hood, so I mentioned the other jacket that Marmot do that has one - the Genesis. Some people might prefer a hood that folds away - who knows.


Cheers (keep the comments coming),

Jack

In reply to Jack Geldard - Assistant Editor:

As you will never use that wonderful jacket to it's full potential, you can give it to me to use.

In reply to Jack Geldard - Assistant Editor:

I still feel that it is important to be careful to not overstate the capabilities of equipment in these reviews. I imagined there could be nasty consequences of getting caught out in what is really a jacket designed for pretty favourable conditions.
I still feel that stating this jacket is capable of performing on the North Face of the Eiger at least requires some qualification within the article.
What are the limits of this jacket?
What do the makers consider its applications to be?
Would you be able to use it as your sole outer layer in extreme Alpine/ Scottish conditions?
Recently I noted Mick laying down a new UKC hardline approach towards misleading beginners- I still feel this article is not very useful in reviewing this jacket. I'd hate beginners to read it, buy one and get caught out through no fault of their own.......
Thanks for the reply.

Davie

In reply to Jack Geldard - Assistant Editor:

Jack, I'm wondering if they read the same review as I did.

Where did you say the hood was great and the jacket was fit for full Scottish winter conditions?

You indicated it was a shower/rain proof jacket with a mediocre helmet with good fit and usefulness in a general climbing context including alpine stuff (yes I know the Eiger is a tad more serious than some but this was obviously a bit of a throw away line).

Really Wee Davie you should get out more if you find such great fault with this review You too Toby, though it sounds like you've been struggling of late so forgiven maybe.

To add something on the kit front, I have a Marmot driclime strectch top which I find to be a superb climbing jacket. The hood is pants and I don't recall ever using it. But for fit, stretchiness, windproof, breathability, and even shower proofing - I find it hard to beat (have
worn it in all kinds of conditions). If the weather is getting seriously cr@p and I have nothing else then I know I need to get off the hill, but normally I'd have another more water resistant outer layer (albeit light) stowed in the bottom of my sac just in case.

In reply to Jack Geldard - Assistant Editor:

I've got the Mrk 1 super hero and i wouldn't use it in winter. (but it didn't have a hood at all) Ideal spring / autumn rock climbing jacket - not really suitable for wearing round the shops / walking the dogs as it's got a really good technical cut - unless you are trying to make a "I’m a gnarly climber" statement.

Also helps to say what the indented use is and the testing conditions are ie.e “winter” means lots of things to lots of people depending on where you live. Winter bouldering, Scottish winter, winter ice cragging, alpine winter – cold winter day in London etc etc.