/ Paramo Velez or Enduro... decisions decisons

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Robot - on 02 Jan 2018

This ones for the paramo fans. I'm looking to purchase a Paramo jacket, I'm looking for an athletic fitting jacket which rules out most of the baggier designs they make, and the new VELEZ and ENDURO seem to be the only 2 that fit the bill.

1. The VELEZ is made with the lighter analogy fabric in areas, how does this fare?
2. Do any owners of the Velez jacket find it less useful in the winter e.g. wind-proofing due to lighter material? What layers do you use under it in the winter months?
3. How does the ENDURO do outside of winter? I know these jackets have great venting systems, I was told by Go Outdoors that the ALTA III can be used in all seasons but they mentioned that the ENDURO was winter only.. yet they are of a similar weight...
4. I found some information in an old thread here that you can put the TORRES MEDIO GILET over the top of a water proof paramo and it will not affect the waterproofness. I'm somewhat skeptical of this as once the outer layer 'wet outs' on the Gilet surely it will penetrate the insulation and sit right on the paramo jacket?

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Post edited at 19:46
nickcj - on 02 Jan 2018
In reply to Robot:

I had a similar conundrum last year and went with the enduro as I wanted a more durable winter jacket that would last.

The Paramo overlaying system does work! I have regularly used the torres gilet for ten years now. A micro climate between the two dries the jacket more quickly and the insulation doesn't seem too affected by rain. I do reproof my gilet from time to time.

If you open up all the vents on the enduro it's pretty good and you can also have zip undone but poppers closed. I use it year round in lakes and Scotland but do feel the cold easily. I usually wear a thin base layer and maybe a grid fleece underneath.
Robot - on 02 Jan 2018
In reply to nickcj:

Thanks for the response Nick. The durability and windproofness of the lighter fabric are my concerns, otherwise i'd go for the lighter jacket for British weather. We're talking £100 difference so I could take it lasting a couple of years less, but from forum research, i've read a good few bad experiences with the lighter fabric tearing very easily. And although easily sewn, it's not what you want from expensive tech right away.

Thats great news regarding the gilet. Sounds a great bit of kit and something I'll certainly be once i've made my decision on which jacket to go for.

I run warm it has to be said, probably the reason why i've been drawn to the breathability of paramo garments.

nickcj - on 03 Jan 2018
In reply to Robot:

I've just got the ostro windproof in the lighter weight fabric and it's definitely wind proof! But I won't be thrutching up a gritstone chimney in it just yet...
Wulfrunian - on 03 Jan 2018
In reply to Robot:

I took the plunge with Paramo after much deliberation a couple of months ago. I run very warm so went for the Velez jacket. Worn it about half a dozen times so far and must admit, the comfort and breathability are excellent. Such a revelation to be puffing up hill and feeling relatively dry, with no hint of clamminess. Making use of the venting I've found is key to comfort and it's nice to just put the jacket on at the start of a walk and leave it on all day. No faffing about with layers in the wind etc. Only rained a couple of times so far, but I remained dry. The lighter grade fabric appears to be just as windproof as the regular stuff, but it is pretty fragile - mine has scuffed up quite noticeably where the rucksack buckle sits, which is disappointing after so few wears. Time will tell as to how long it lasts.

I reckon the additional warmth provided by the Velez over a 'traditional' shell is akin to that of a light weight fleece. So far I've been out in single digit temperatures with just a thin long-sleeved baselayer under it and last week was out in the Glyders (around -3 deg with supposed -12 deg windchill) with just an ME Integrity hoodie underneath and was fine. I just chuck a gillet on top for lunch stops.

So far I've been impressed (apart from the scuffing issue) but would only consider Paramo in colder weather and reckon the full weight garments will be too warm for me.
gneiss boots on 03 Jan 2018
In reply to Robot:

the jacket is made of light and standard weight material and so is quite different to the Enduro with its heavier fabric throughout. I am not so convinced by the new (to me - my Velez light smock is 8+ years old) lightweight fabric and so would highlight the Velez Adventure smock as made throughout with standard weight material. You may be set on a jacket though?
Denzil - on 03 Jan 2018
In reply to Robot: I have a Velez, a Velez light and an Enduro. Velez light gets used spring through autumn when walking - did very well on 5 day backpacking trip on Jura in October. Enduro gets used in Winter unless temperature is high, and gets used when I’m working for Moors for the Future across the Peak over most of the year since it copes well with varied activities - might be surveying ground (fairly active) or airlifting (shorts bursts to get to next dropsite, then standing in downdraught). Often just a merino baselayer underneath, though sometimes needs a thin fleece in addition. Torres works well - have both jacket and trousers, and use them when working as a body for SARDA once I’ve got to my location. I do have Buffalo expedition saloppettes which get used in full on winter conditions with SARDA. Buffalo and Paramo gear work together really well, I’ve found I can mix them either way round.

Robot - on 03 Jan 2018
In reply to nickcj:
Gotcha nick haha, Was this a purchase for the spring/summer days instead of the ENDURO? Looks a great piece of kit.

In reply to Wulfrunian: Thanks for the information. Is the wear showing around the bottom of the jacket? Or the chest buckle? I assumed where the harness would sit would be normal analogy fabric? (EDIT: apparently the lower jacket is the lighter fabric)

In reply to gneiss boots: I do have my heart set on a jacket. I'm also starting to rethink the lighter fabric unfortunately, I expected scrambling to of course damage the thin material, but not your rucksack after so little wears, as mentioned by Wulfrunian.

In reply to Denzil: Denzil is it the newer ENDURO you have? I've read the new one is slightly longer than earlier design. Is it the similar fit to the VELEZ? So even with all the venting options the ENDURO is going to be too hot outside of winter?
Post edited at 19:11
nickcj - on 04 Jan 2018
In reply to Robot:

Needed a new windproof for running and cycling but interested to try it with the ostro fleece at some point.

The new enduro is definitely longer!
Robot - on 04 Jan 2018
In reply to nickcj:

Nice! Yea the fleece/ windproof sounds interesting. The fleece has a hefty price tag I thought.

How much are we talking nick? I tried on the ALTA III at go outdoors and that jacket was way too long for what i'm after.

I tried on the VELEZ today, the light material around the hood really makes for a quiet hood experience (even for paramos standards already being quiet)

The VELEZ sits notably higher on the waist than i was expecting, but it certainly didn't feel uncomfortable.

Denzil - on 04 Jan 2018
In reply to Robot:

> In reply to Denzil: Denzil is it the newer ENDURO you have? I've read the new one is slightly longer than earlier design. Is it the similar fit to the VELEZ? So even with all the venting options the ENDURO is going to be too hot outside of winter?

I’ve had the Enduro a couple of years at least, and the Velez much longer. The length of both jackets is almost identical. I’ve not found my Enduro too hot for spring and autumn - the full length zip means you can open the front for ventilation.
Solaris on 08 Jan 2018
In reply to Robot:
I looked at the (2017) Enduro vs. Alta III recently and couldn't see any good reason to spend >£100 more on an Enduro; nor could the sales person in the Paramo shop. (Oh, come to think of it, they did mention better velcro on the cuffs - wow! But they were wrong about the Enduro having more pockets: it has fewer.)

The advertised weight difference is 5 gms; the pockets on the Alta are better: more of them and more waterproof ones, and I like having hip pockets to put my hands in on walk-ins/-outs; you can tighten the Alta's waist but not the Enduro's (good for warmth when walking or stopped); and the extra length doesn't make any climbing difference to me.

Both would be equally insulative, I'd have thought, though iirc, the pit zips on the Alta are shorter than on the Enduro.
Post edited at 23:57

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