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PLB/ Tracker Rescue Times?

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 jonnie3430 30 Nov 2018

Hello,

I'm trying to choose between PLB or tracker as a Christmas and birthday present for solo adventures in the highlands. Does anyone know of statistics anywhere that show how long it takes for a rescue to get to a casualty after they have set off plb/ tracker? 

I'm trying to figure out how useful a tracker is, as it works if you're unconscious, compared to a plb, where you need to be conscious to set it off. 

I know trackers have high subscription fees, but plb can only be used when conscious.  Or can I just use my phone?

MarkJH 30 Nov 2018
In reply to jonnie3430:

> I know trackers have high subscription fees, but plb can only be used when conscious.  Or can I just use my phone?

Realistically, neither can be used when unconscious to call for help.  A tracker may give a 3rd party more information when  they alert a rescue team. You need to ask how long it will take someone to become worried.  The set of circumstances that lead to you becoming (and remaining) unconscious for the multiple hours needed for rescue teams to be summoned but without expiring in the meantime probably isn't one that is worth worrying about.

For pure emergency use, buy the unit that has best coverage (particularly at high latitude), most reliable signal, and is best integrated into UK SAR infrastructure.  That is the plb

 

 

Post edited at 13:54
OP jonnie3430 30 Nov 2018
In reply to MarkJH:

I've been strongly recommended the Garmin inreach mini, but it's strength seems to be the ability to send messages, which I'm not so fussed about.  Your point about both needing conciousness is noted and appreciated. 

MarkJH 30 Nov 2018
In reply to jonnie3430:

> I've been strongly recommended the Garmin inreach mini, but it's strength seems to be the ability to send messages, which I'm not so fussed about.  Your point about both needing conciousness is noted and appreciated. 

 

I had been thinking about the SPOT trackers using globestar satellites, which have a fairly low orbital inclination and so can struggle at high lattitudes (particularly on the N side of steep slopes).  I think that Garmin uses Iridium which is much better in that respect (near polar orbits). PLBs use Cospas-Sarsat, which have good global coverage and are integrated with SAR coordination.

In any case, the time to get the distress call out will depend on where you are and what part of the sky you can see.  McMurdo reckon on an average of 5mins, but up to 90mins for a satellite to receive and relay the message.

After that it will depend on the policy of the SAR authorities.  When I was first learning to use an EPIRB  a good many years ago, I was told that the UK authorities would take a number of steps to rule out a false alarm first, and that a response might not start until this had been completed (up to a day, depending on circumstances), and to expect to be self-sufficient for a few days.  With modern GPS beacons (very well defined search area) and widespread use in less remote areas, I suspect that this is no longer the case and reaction times will be very much shorter.  I would  imagine that an attempt to reach the alternative contact listed on the registration document will still be made, so I wouldn't treat it as being as good as a phone call.

 

 Dave B 01 Dec 2018
In reply to jonnie3430:

I was chatting to the MCA last week. For a modern 406 plb time to notification is very quick. Pretty much as soon as the GPS location is picked up. They do go though some steps to ensure its not an obvious false alarm, e.g reading your registration to see what activities you have put on it, but they won't delay the initial stages of responding while checking.

Remember response time isn't rescue time 

Post edited at 07:25
 marsbar 01 Dec 2018
In reply to jonnie3430:

My advice would be to avoid becoming unconscious during solo adventures. 

1
 PPP 01 Dec 2018
In reply to marsbar:

I have no medical experience and I do not know MRT response times (I take even helicopter takes an hour or more to get to the place?), but I highly doubt of the survival if one was unconscious and waiting for help! 

As long as it's a tool to help family feel more confident about one's solo adventures, I think PLBs are great. If it's being used as an option to push harder stuff, I am not so keen on that.

 

 Gone 01 Dec 2018
In reply to Dave B:

That is certainly what the MCA would like you to think, but when the fishing boat  Louisa sank off Shetland, they sat on the emergency beacon report for nearly an hour while pondering the terminology of whether it was an initial fix or a refined fix, not that it would have made any difference. Delayed the lifeboat by 49 minutes compared to if it had been done properly. (By contrast, the lifeboat launched 7 minutes after the crew were paged, in the middle of the night). 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/597867e5e5274a402b000004/MAI...

Post edited at 12:33
 marsbar 01 Dec 2018
In reply to PPP:

I try to keep my 16 hour outdoor first aid up to date, but that wouldn't help me either if I was on my own.  

 Solaris 31 Dec 2018
In reply to jonnie3430:

Just been researching your question myself, and I've come to the conclusion that unless I was going to be in remote areas without mobile phone contact, and unless I was going to be doing that a lot, the expense of subscription (even the cheapest) to a satellite system is not worth it. In other words, PLB's best unless you are a professional and you will be out of reach of the mobile network.

There's useful info here, including a chart of ongoing costs, though obviously it's based on US charges rather than UK ones.https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/topics/camping-and-hiking/best-personal-loca...

There are details of the cost of subscribing to the Garmin/InReach system on the Garmin webpage.

Post edited at 19:06
 kevin stephens 31 Dec 2018
In reply to jonnie3430:

I bought a PLB for sea kayaking in the summer, which I could also use for off-piste skiing etc.  There is currently a delay of up to 12 months for registering your details on the PLB data base by the coastguard at Falmouth who administer it.  This doesn't mean that a distress signal wouldn't be acted on, or forwarded to the appropriate authority if abroad or in the mountains, but they wouldn't have access to the owner's name, contact details, typical activities or if relevant type of craft - this could conceivably cause delays or confusion

 Roberttaylor 01 Jan 2019
In reply to kevin stephens:

It does say about a delay on the website but I got my registration confirmed in a week.

PLB all the way. One became activated while on a friend's bag (we were sunning ourselves by a lake in the Alps). His dad got a phone call, he called us, we deactivated it.

MCA have my phone number, my mum's mobile and home numbers and numbers for a climbing friend (who is unlikely to be climbing with me but will probably know my plans) and my uncle (with whom I'd leave details of any expeditions) 

R

 kevin stephens 01 Jan 2019
In reply to Roberttaylor:

I sent mine off in September, still waiting 

 Roberttaylor 01 Jan 2019
In reply to kevin stephens:

I did mine online, did you send off a paper form?

 kevin stephens 01 Jan 2019
In reply to Roberttaylor:

Yes a paper form, maybe the on line option is a recent addition?

 rogerwebb 01 Jan 2019
In reply to jonnie3430:

There are a lot of areas in the highlands where the phone signal is weak or none existent.

I have no direct experience of a plb based call out but tracker instigated ones have resulted in a rapid alert  although how long it takes to get to you is dependant on too many other factors to give a general estimate. I have no reason to believe a plb would be less efficient. Where the tracker does have the advantage though is it gives people a a better chance of finding you if you are unconscious or dead. At least in those situations the team is starting in the right place.

Either is better than none and if nothing else will let you get away on the hill with less stress on your relatives. 

 SteveD 02 Jan 2019
In reply to jonnie3430:

The benefit of a spot tracker or inReach is that you can let folk know you are ok, I got mine for Scottish meanders, as I was often out of phone signal for days on end, a quick push on the 'OK' button let my wife know all was good.  A PLB is only useful for summoning help.

I use a Spot Tracker and have never had issues with reliability.

Steve

 toad 02 Jan 2019
In reply to jonnie3430:

I use one when im out and about on my horsey

 Guy 02 Jan 2019
In reply to SteveD:

You have a very understanding Wife!

 SteveD 02 Jan 2019
In reply to Guy:

I know, off to the Alps for a month this year

 

 ScraggyGoat 03 Jan 2019
In reply to jonnie3430:

PLB vs a tracker which is best, depends upon what you want.

Trackers have the advantage of letting your loved ones know where you are, the possibility of recovering your bodily remains in a more timely manner, and the ability to relay simple messages, to whole texts/photo's depending on model (and cost).  Alongside the ability to request outside help.  The down-side is apparently (according to some) a sub -optimal satellite configuration; friends have experienced glitches (i.e. several hours) in non-emergency messages being relayed. There have been occasional battery issues due to being used constantly for tracking, and overall year-on-year cost. Other downsides could be loved ones might notice you haven't been moving for some time and 'panic' that you are in trouble, when in fact either the battery has died (as has a happened resulting in a MRT call-out), or you could be happily sleeping in the sun. 

If you were to suffer from a medical condition that might stop you thinking 'straight' and/or render unconscious such as diabetes a tracker might be the better option.

PLBs have the advantage of being a dedicated emergency beacon, transmitting an internationally recognized distress signal, using a (apparently) better satellite configuration.  Furthermore most contain a radio-wave distress frequency as well as the sat / gps signal.  This can be detected, and 'homed' in on by search and rescue helicopters,  and by some classes of lifeboat.   If there just so happens to be a SAR chopper airborne in line-of-sight when you pull the 'pin' it will pick up that beacon activation well ahead of the gps satellite relay.  So for example; if someone takes a tumble on the west side of the Cuillin, resulting in life threatening injuries and a PLB was triggered (in-conjunction with a 999 emergency call, if possible), should the Stornoway chopper  be on training (i.e. not 'tasked') over the Minch, there is the good probability it will pick up the radio frequency signal, then firstly report the beacon activation to the MCA RCC (and technically await instruction), in reality unless otherwise tasked the crew would use their initiative to try and get a triangulation, if that triangulation is found to be over a known accident black spot such as the Cuillin (rather than a common false alarm location; like a yachting marina), it is likely the crew will 'self-task' (while seeking MCA RCC approval) and try to 'hunt down' the location/caz. This could all potentially happen ahead of the satellite picking-up and relaying the message. 

Though in reality most rescues will be triggered by the sat/gps relay.

Once on scene (weather and terrain conditions permitting) they can use the radio signal essentially as a bearing to fly down, then turnaround and repeat probably from different directions until they have a visual fix.

By background the radio-wave beacon distress signal is an historic (pre-gps) tool when location determination was reliant on triangulation, but one still very usefull in the maritime environment where a man-overboard, or boat could be being moved by tide/wind at several knots an hour, i.e. the caz location is not fixed but moving.  Hence a PLB is the preferred device for maritime users.

PLB are of course no use in stopping your remains turning green should you be unable to pull the pin, and your family have no way of following where you have got to, and what time you might be back for tea, cake and medals.  

Post edited at 11:16
 Mattia 03 Jan 2019
In reply to jonnie3430:

I like using my inreach. Messages sent from open ground usually take a minute, never more than 5. Replies are received within the same time frame. My assumption would be that when sending an SOS call, this would be received more or less instantaneously. Authorities can be notified about the issue at hand and provide a status update with regards to rescue times etc. A GPS location is always embedded in outgoing messages.

Preset messages can be sent for free, so I tend to send these messages and embedded GPS points to my partner roughly every half day/ day when hiking.

I know this doesn't really answer your question but as a fellow walker and solo camper I feel the inreach is worth looking into. I pay the subscription every month I use it and this works out about half the year. 

 drunken monkey 03 Jan 2019
In reply to Gone:

Just read that entire report - thanks for sharing.

An absolutely sobering read.


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