/ Problems with DMM Renegade 2

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petecallaghan - on 06 Aug 2018

Has anyone experienced comfort or usability problems with a DMM Renegade harness? 

After a year or so of use I have decided to retire my DMM harness because of a couple of problems. 

The main issue is that the top webbing attachment of the front gear loops collapse the webbing when loaded. This causes bruising and a rash after a day of multi pitch climbing. I typically rack my wires and cams on the front loops, so they carry a reasonable amount of weight. 

See for some pics

Another irritant is that the end of the leg loop strap keeps getting caught on gear hanging down on the front loops, snagging when I step up and often needing me to pause and free the gear. The webbing overlap should be sewn or shrouded to avoid creating a hook. 

Finally, the webbing at the back becomes uncomfortable in the kidney area when used on big multi pitch routes with hanging belays.

I like the 7 gear loops, but not enough to put up with these weaknesses. 

I have reported my experiences to DMM  but have yet to receive a response

Post edited at 13:22
teh_mark on 06 Aug 2018
In reply to petecallaghan:

I've been using the Renegade for almost a decade now and haven't had any of the issues you mention. I rack the majority of my gear on the front loops too and can't say I've noticed any problems.

Fit is obviously paramount when it comes to harnesses; maybe you're just not the right 'shape' for DMM harnesses?

timjones - on 06 Aug 2018
In reply to petecallaghan:

I'd say that the legloops should not be pulling the waistbelt down like that when you are just standing around.

Have you tried using it with the legs a bit looser?

petecallaghan - on 06 Aug 2018
In reply to timjones:

Ah - I've just edited my post to make it a bit clearer. It's the gear loops that cause the webbing to twist, not the leg loops

In reply to petecallaghan:

Hi Pete,

Much like teh_mark I've been using the Renegade for the best part of a decade and no such problems.

One question: why place so much gear on your front two gear loops? I've always thought the main draw of the Renegade was so that you could spread it all out, but if you've got that much on your front two what have you got on the other five?! For what it's worth, I keep my wires on the front two, cams on the middle two, quickdraws on the back two, then belay device/nut key/screwgates on the back, which makes for a much more even distribution.

That said, it may just be the case that the harness doesn't fit right for you, although I'd certainly try to even things out before writing it off.

NigelHurst - on 06 Aug 2018
In reply to petecallaghan:

I've not had the twist problem, have you tried moving the floating strap thingy so it sits differently

petecallaghan - on 06 Aug 2018
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

I rack draws in 3s and put one set of short draws on the front left loop with the wires. 

I put sling-draws and quickdraws on the middle two loops (plus cams >= Camalot 4), if carrying hexes or v big cams they go on rear rhs. Boots, water bottle, nutkey on the middle rear, back lhs has long draws, and lockers. 

Last time I racked double cams and triple wires, the majority of the draws went on a bandolier/cleaning sling, which also speeds up hand over when alt-leading. I spread the wires and cams over the front and middle loops (wires on left, cams on right). 

On balance, this does put most of the weight at the front loops, but that makes the gear more accessible than if racked further towards the rear. 

petecallaghan - on 06 Aug 2018
In reply to NigelHurst:

I can only really move the webbing an inch or so either way, once the harness is fully tightened on my waist. 

timjones - on 06 Aug 2018
In reply to petecallaghan:

Looking at the photo I would still tend to suspect that it is the tightness of the belay loop that is initiating the issue. The waist belt shouldn't be pulled downwards at the loop like that. 

JRJones - on 06 Aug 2018
In reply to petecallaghan:

I used to use one, and had exactly this problem, though maybe not quite as badly. I also tend to carry quite a bit of weight on my front loops.

I think it's because of the floaty padding waistband, and also due to the front end of the front gear loop being attached above the webbing. I don't think this was the case with the renegade 1, maybe someone can confirm?

Anyway, I've now swapped to a BD one with fixed webbing and have had no similar issues.

jezb1 - on 06 Aug 2018
In reply to petecallaghan:

Looks like the harness doesn’t fit you properly.

mmmhumous on 06 Aug 2018
In reply to petecallaghan:

Haven't any issues with the back or leg loops, but definitely had the issues with the front gear loops/webbing. 

Didn't have any issues with my Renegade mk 1, but found I didn't  that change in fit and move to sloping gearloops on the mk2 didn't suit me... I'm now climbing in a Renegade 1.5 (Mostly a Mk2, but with the webbing/loops from my mk1).  

Luke90 on 06 Aug 2018
In reply to petecallaghan:

Is it possible you're just carrying too much stuff for any normal harness to be comfortable?

Boots and water bottle?

Double cams and triple wires?

Is that ever really necessary? If I needed to carry boots and water bottle, I'd put them in a small pack (and probably dump that on the second, frankly). I can't imagine that very many routes in the world call for double cams as well as triple wires. Perhaps aiding on big walls might require that much gear but aren't there more specialised harnesses for applications like that?

petecallaghan - on 07 Aug 2018
In reply to Luke90:

> Boots and water bottle?

> Double cams and triple wires?

> Is that ever really necessary? 

Not normally! But I've just returned from a trip to Lofoten, where one route in particular does suit lots of wires and cams, with long pitches. In this case, the load on the harness was reduced by using a bandolier for draws. 

I do sometimes use a small pack, but if not the boots / water bottle go on the rear loop. 


Mark Haward - on 07 Aug 2018
In reply to petecallaghan:

Hi Pete,

Never had this problem, even on long alpine routes ( 20 + pitches ) carrying lots of gear. 

    Is the elastic retainer linking the thinner belt to the broader webbing in use or possibly buckled / deformed? I guess that now the belt has become misshaped it now returns to this position as a default. Looks like you may need to find a new harness that fits you better...


Paul Baxter - on 07 Aug 2018
In reply to petecallaghan:

I have the same problem as you with heavily loaded front gear loops folding over - I've been wondering if it's a fit issue. To get a tight waistband on me, it has to be adjusted to about the smallest it can go to; I've been wondering if this causes, or exacerbates the issue.

petecallaghan - on 07 Aug 2018
In reply to Paul Baxter:

That does sound similar - I have to tighten it to close to as small as it can go. 

petecallaghan - on 31 Aug 2018
In reply to petecallaghan:

This is what DMM said: 

>Hi Pete, 30.5 inch is definitely at the lower end of the medium range. Sorry to read you have been having issues with the fit. The problem you describe on UKC may be caused by the elastic on the tip of waist belt being un-threaded, which will allow the gear loop to pull the waist belt out of line with the webbing. Couldn't see if this was the case from your photo. The 'rise' - length from from the middle of the crotch seam on trousers to the top of the waistband - varies from person to person and this will affect the interaction between of the belay loop between the leg loops and waistband. Designing a harness that fits everyone perfectly with regard to this, as I'm sure you'll appreciate, is extremely difficult. The small most likely will fit you better on the waist but to be entirely sure of the overall fit, including the rise, I'd advise you try any harness on in the shop. Of course the leg loops are smaller on the small which is a further consideration. Hope this has been some help.

3patallen - on 03 Sep 2018
In reply to petecallaghan:

nope. think its a brilliant harness. 30.5" is a quite small for a medium...I'm a 34" and its a really decent fit.

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