/ Rand has peeled after 1 day on brand new La Sportiva Katanas

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Ayrton - on 02 Sep 2015
Not happy - its only on one shoe, but anyone else had this? Its just above the toe on the inside of the shoe where the rubber sole joins the rest of the rubber.

Do I complain to Amazon where I bought them or to La Sportiva?
Fraser on 02 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

The vendor I think.
joeldering on 02 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

Delamination happens sometimes - contact the vendor and they should sort it out (I have found Amazon's chat help to be very quick and good!)
GravitySucks - on 02 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:
Seems to be an increasingly common problem with the Katana's I have owned many pairs of these and been very happy with their performance, however I have noticed delamination of the sole from the rand on a number of pairs recently, usually after just enough wear to not justify sending them back to the manufacturer, if they have delaminated after just one day then its a no-brainer, take them back to the shop and ask for a replacement or an alternative ? I was currently considering giving them one more chance but with your evidence I might try and find a new favourite - such a pity
Post edited at 12:52
JDC - on 02 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

My last pair of katana's have worn right on the point of the toe as the sole has delaminated from the rand - pretty much as GravitySucks describes - after just long enough that it isn't worth sending them back. It's not the usual point that shoes wear through for me (normally further back, on the side of the big toe, rather than this which is right on the point of the big toe).

rexybo - on 02 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

This happened to me too. Tried the supplier (Lyon, I think) but they blamed it on use. You might have more luck if you can prove how new your shoes are. It's a shame, as I liked the shoes, but I won't be buying another pair.
MattJ753 - on 02 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

My last 3 pairs of Katanas seemed like they weren't glued at the tip of the big toe, where sole and rand meet.

So when they wear (even just the first millimeter of wear) the beginnings of a flap starts to appear. This isn't a problem at first, but the flap gets bigger and bigger as they wear more.

With other shoes, although they wear through eventually, the rand stays stuck to the sole all around the toe area until eventually a hole appears.

It's really frustrating as it means I chuck them away ages before I should have to, just because the stupid flap at the toe has got too big and catches on the rock. But I like Katanas so I buy more.

Interesting to see others having similar problems. Surely this can't be hard to sort out?
spidermonkey09 - on 02 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

My Miura lace ups wore through at the toe significantly sooner than I think they should have recently- perhaps indicative of a wider problem with Sportiva build quality?
humptydumpty - on 02 Sep 2015
In reply to dashed:

Me too - have a pair of the green/blue ones which have worn through the sole at the point of the big toe and sole has detached from the rand a couple of inches on each side of that. This took less than 3 months.

Normally (last 3 pairs, yellow ones) they just wear all the way through the sole and rand at the big toe after 4-6 months.

Definitely the shortest lifespan I've got from a shoe, but also the best fitting I can find.
GravitySucks - on 03 Sep 2015
In reply to humptydumpty:

Sportiva must realise that they have a problem but are keeping their head firmly in the sand. Much as I love these shoes I don't think that I can bring myself to buy another pair which are destined for an early demise, especially as they are hardly at the cheap end of the spectrum, quite the reverse!

Everyone moans about the build quality of 5.10's and yet I have never had a problem with them maybe it's time to go back, unless someone can suggest a better alternative ?
Quiddity - on 03 Sep 2015
In reply to GravitySucks:

> Everyone moans about the build quality of 5.10's and yet I have never had a problem with them maybe it's time to go back, unless someone can suggest a better alternative ?

Scarpa
NottsRich on 03 Sep 2015
In reply to GravitySucks:

Perhaps a group letter/email to the manufacturer might be in order?
Ayrton - on 03 Sep 2015
In reply to NottsRich:

Do manufacturers ever comment on this forum about their products?
In reply to NottsRich:

Hi Rich,

I've notified Lyon Equipment, La Sportiva's UK Distributor, and am awaiting a response - I'll post an update as soon as I've received a reply.

Rob
climbwhenready - on 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:
That's interesting, I had exactly the same problem as you describe. To stick to the facts:

A few months ago I got a new pair of Mythos, and the rubber sole peeled off most of the way round on both shoes within a week. I took them back to the shop who sent them back to Lyon Equipment, the distributor (who do not deal with end users). To the shop's (and my) surprise, Lyon elected to repair the shoes instead of replacing. The shop and I both considered the repair job inadequate - they had essentially dabbed some small spots of glue around some of the peeled rubber (and not the rest). The shop gave me a new pair of Mythos (when they got new stock, they were out of my size) and said they would be complaining to Lyon.

Edit: for what it's worth, the replacements have not had this problem, so up to now I put it down to a batch issue.
Post edited at 14:06
Mr Trebus - on 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

Same thing happened to the toe on mine after one go on an indoor crack. They were sent back to Lyon and they gave me a new pair.

zimpara - on 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

Yup.
First millimetre of use and the rand delaminates.
Don't take them to the slate quarries.
I will buy another pair probably. After I've reglued my rand several times. They're just that good.
GravitySucks - on 07 Sep 2015
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

I realise that I am an eternal optimist ;-) but I don't suppose our friends at Sportiva / Lyon Equipment have bothered to respond to your enquiry ?

I need a new pair of shoes and if there is a hint that they might be doing something to tackle this problem I might not have to desert ship for Scarpa or 5.10, however if recent experience is anything to go by I wont be holding my breath ....
GravitySucks - on 07 Sep 2015
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

I guess that'll be a 'no' then ?
Fiona Reid - on 08 Sep 2015
In reply to zimpara:

FWIW I have the same issue with my Red Chili Spirit Speed shoes.

They been used for outdoor climbing only since April but were bought over a year ago (sat under bed unused) so doubt I'll get anywhere with the retailer. I thought at first I'd maybe caught pine so dismissed it but the other boot is doing the same thing so looks like an issue with the glue etc.

> I will buy another pair probably. After I've reglued my rand several times.

What did you use to re glue them?

NottsRich on 08 Sep 2015
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

> Hi Rich,

> I've notified Lyon Equipment, La Sportiva's UK Distributor, and am awaiting a response - I'll post an update as soon as I've received a reply.

> Rob

Hi Rob. That's very kind of you. I just want to point out that I'm not involved in this - it was just a suggestion to those with this problem. I'm sure they'll appreciate your help anyway.

Rich
Steve nevers on 08 Sep 2015
In reply to GravitySucks:
> Everyone moans about the build quality of 5.10's and yet I have never had a problem with them maybe it's time to go back, unless someone can suggest a better alternative ?

Evolv seem to last quite well, but need to be aired well or they tend to reek.

Saying that they don't make the Geshido anymore (which is a great edges/all rounder) and theres a new model Shaman coming (current models tough as nails but the toe is huge so crap for thin cracks).
Post edited at 12:30
climbwhenready - on 08 Sep 2015
In reply to Fiona Reid:

I reglued some old shoes with superglue. It gave them another 4-6 months before the rand peeled somewhere else.
Fiona Reid - on 08 Sep 2015
In reply to climbwhenready:

Many thanks, will give that a go. Fingers crossed it will stick them back together.

db79 - on 09 Sep 2015
My last pair of Miura lace ups had the rand peeling off after about 6-8 weeks. Tried to superglue it back on, which helped for about half a session before they peeled again. Love the shoes, but think I'll be trying something else if this is a common issue.
aultguish on 10 Sep 2015
In reply to Fiona Reid:

Gorilla Glue. Still holding the sole on a pair of Salomon walking boots for the last 5 months, which are seeing far more use than you can imagine.
GravitySucks - on 10 Sep 2015
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

I'm guessing by the collection of rolling tumbleweed and the deafening silence from Sportiva and Cecil the deceased Lyon Equipment that they dont give enough of a sh*t to bother responding. Sportiva have had my last £100+ Scarpa seems to be the way to go although I could be tempted back to 5.10 decisions decisions ...
Duncan Campbell - on 10 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

Surprised that Lyon haven't commented. I have just switched to La Sportiva after 5.10 ditched the whites and because I wanted better quality. The sole peeling issue that I know others have had on many shoes and I have had on my first pair (seems like my second pair may also though too early to tell) smacks of poorer quality.

Do others find it is the left shoe or has it been both?

My left shoe has peeled whilst the right is absolutely fine.

Be good if Sportiva could sort this as they really are excellent shoes
JDC - on 10 Sep 2015
In reply to Duncan Campbell:

Both shoes for me.

Also disappointed that no response - I'd actually initially put it down to sloppy plopping on my part but after all the responses on here I'm not buying another pair.
In reply to Duncan Campbell:

Hi all,

Firstly, apologies for my own delayed reply - I've just returned from a few days in the Valle del'Orco in Italy.

I'll chase this up today and endeavour to get a response from Lyon ASAP. If it is any consolation I have had exactly the same problem, hence I have a great personal interest in the answer provided (and will make sure we get one).

Thanks once-again for everyones thoughts/feedback.


Rob
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Hi all (again),

I received a reply from Lyon yesterday saying that they were going to get a response online by the end of play today, so hopefully we'll hear back shortly.

Rob
JDC - on 11 Sep 2015
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Still waiting....!
GravitySucks - on 14 Sep 2015
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Have you considered using a Ouijaboard ? Is there anybody there ?

Is there anybody there ? .....who gives's a sh*t if their very expensive product falls to pieces in a short space of time ?
Tom Last - on 14 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

Just to add another to the mix, it happened to me too - gone back to 5:10.
John Postlethwaite - on 14 Sep 2015
In reply to Duncan Campbell:

I switched to La Sportiva following the sad demise of the whites and loved the shoes (Miura's). But have encounted similar problems (right foot). I initially thought it was something to do with my style of foot placement. But it would seem not.
Looks like I wont be buying any more.
astley007 - on 14 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

I have used katanas for years, and have had the same problems as all here with the last couple of pairs, one requiring a very early use resole and the next pair I have glued several times.
Like the climbers posting on here they fit my feet really well.
So if I am going to change what do climbers on here recommend as an alternative?
Cheers
Nick
zimpara - on 14 Sep 2015
In reply to astley007:

I haven't found much else that has a big comfortable toe box and a tight heel.
Do the miura's also delaminate?
In reply to GravitySucks:

Having spoken to Lyon, La Sportiva's UK distributor, on Friday they have looked into it in great detail (hence the delayed reply), but the results were that there has been neither a rise or spike in returns of Sportiva rock boots over the past 12 months.

Whilst I am amongst the many who have been affected by this problem I can only assume that either we are in the minority, or that many of those posting haven't returned the product, hence Lyon will not have taken that data into account.

Either way, my recommendation is if you have a pair you deem faulty then return them to the shop you bought them from - if there is a genuine problem then they should be replaced.
galpinos on 14 Sep 2015
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

The general vibe on the thread appears to dissatisfied customers who hadn't actually returned their boots so it doesn't surprise me if Lyon haven't seen an increase in returns.
johncook - on 14 Sep 2015
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing: Certain shop/s will not accept returns, citing poor use/ customer error! I then contacted the importer who said my problem was known, had been corrected on the next batch and, on presentation of receipt, supplied replacements. No argument, no fuss, accepted responsibility, just real customer service.
Bad publicity, like this thread, can make a huge difference to sales if not dealt with properly and promptly.

climbwhenready - on 14 Sep 2015
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

> Having spoken to Lyon, La Sportiva's UK distributor, on Friday they have looked into it in great detail (hence the delayed reply), but the results were that there has been neither a rise or spike in returns of Sportiva rock boots over the past 12 months.

> Whilst I am amongst the many who have been affected by this problem I can only assume that either we are in the minority, or that many of those posting haven't returned the product, hence Lyon will not have taken that data into account.

> Either way, my recommendation is if you have a pair you deem faulty then return them to the shop you bought them from - if there is a genuine problem then they should be replaced.

That's a disappointing response, given their attitude towards a faulty product that was returned to them - see my post earlier in the thread. They were not willing to replace it, despite the retailer agreeing it was faulty.
GravitySucks - on 14 Sep 2015
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

That's it ! ??

That is their considered response to what is at least anecdotally a very common problem ? Bury their heads in the sand and hope it will all go away ?

I haven't returned any of the pairs that this has occurred to, usually because I have worn them for a month or so and expect the tired old 'usual wear and tear' excuse, so I have put it down to a 'one off' or a 'bad batch' but the evidence from this thread seems to point to a more major design issue. Since they obviously aren't prepared to enter into a dialogue the answer seems simple, don't buy products from a company that treats its customers with such contempt.

I wont be returning my next pair of shoes to Sportiva ... as the will have been made by Scarpa.

A very poor response from what appears to be a very poor company, I expected better.
1
Dan Dyson - on 14 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

Yeah my last 3 pairs of Katanas have done this as well as two pairs of katana lace ups. Literally within a few weeks of use.

Now I buy scarpas.
Rory Shaw - on 14 Sep 2015
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

My rubber is peeling off my miuras after omly a couple of months of light use... only on the left shoe.
Got to be a manufacturing error - they will be going back this week

humptydumpty - on 14 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

Any Scarpa-switchers on this thread want to recommend a model with similar fit to Katanas? Would also be interested to hear what size of each shoe you take, if you can be bothered.
gribble - on 14 Sep 2015
In reply to humptydumpty:

Similarly, I've also had rand issues with Katanas. Shame, as they were my favourite shoe, but I've stopped wasting the rather large amount of money on them. I switched to Vapour V which have worked very well indeed. Sadly they are now an defunct model!
colin struthers - on 15 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

Agree, I had a pair of Katanas from V12 that delaminated at the toe after being used 2 or 3 times. The shop sent them back but the manufacturer claimed this was down to my climbing style, 'excessive toe drag' being their response. Odd that this does not happen when I wear other manufacturer's boots.

V12 were very good and pressed them to do a re-sole but when they came back they were then too tight to get my feet in.

Katanas are close to the top of the price range and should be better than this. I won't be buying them again.
Ayrton - on 15 Sep 2015
In reply to colin struthers:

Here is the reply from LA Sportive to my follow up email after my first one was ignored.

"Yes....? Was there a question or concern?"

Caley Young
Distribution/Warranty Dept.
La Sportiva NA Inc

JDC - on 15 Sep 2015

I was thinking of sending mine back on the basis of the Lyon response above, but on the basis of reports of their customer service so far, I'm just wasting my time. They've been used a few months (rather than a few times!) so not a hope of any action.

If Lyon are refusing to acknowledge there is an issue and aren't honouring warranty claims then perhaps the best approach would if everyone experiencing issues emails them photos - at least then they may take it seriously.

I've dropped them a mail myself to: outdoor@lyon.co.uk
humptydumpty - on 15 Sep 2015
In reply to dashed:

I've had all mine resoled, so no photos available.
Kieran_John - on 15 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:
I had the same problem too, Go Outdoors were useless and suggested I send them back to La Sportiva who I contacted and weren't overly...positive about what the outcome of sending them back would be, so I just kept them at work as a spare pair.
Post edited at 13:16
GravitySucks - on 16 Sep 2015
In reply to Kieran_John:

Just bumping this to the top to annoy Sportiva / Lyon Equipment, as they have certainly anoyed me with their shoddy response about a their apparently shoddy product.
hamsforlegs - on 16 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

I had this years ago (10ish?) with Katanas. Most annoying. There then seemed to be a good patch for a few years.

Recently I've had the same problem with testarossas, miuras and katanas. The katanas are the worst, as they become useless quite quickly. I find I can keep them alive on indoor stuff where you can be artificially precise on big holds. Outdoors, smearing, scumming and standing on small edges can see them deteriorate very badly in just a couple of outings.

The response to this is a bit disappointing - it's a known issue among climbers, so I find it hard to believe that Sportiva hasn't heard of this through their own staff, reps and contacts who use the products and spend time with other climbers.
Simon Caldwell - on 16 Sep 2015
In reply to the thread:

Of the many people who have had this problem, how many have complained to the retailer/manufacturer? It doesn't look to be many. Unless they're told about a problem, how can they be expected to know about it?
1
GravitySucks - on 16 Sep 2015
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Sportiva must be well aware of this issue, they have been told and told and told .......

Just try putting 'Katana delamination' into google and see how common this problem really is !
Mikkel - on 16 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

Just return to Amazon as faulty. You don't have to speak to anyone and they will request a credit to your account before the goods are even back in their warehouse.
SGD - on 16 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

On the flip side my other half had the same thing happen to one of her approach shoes. She contacted Lyon to ask if they could recommend a product to stick the rand back on with.

Lyon replied asking for some photo’s of both shoes which she duly did. The following day they responded asking if we could send them the shoes for further examination.
We did and a week later they sent her an email to say a brand new pair was on their way but they were being shipped in especially as they were no longer sold or stocked in the UK.

Not what we expected at all – we only asked about some glue!
BTphonehome on 16 Sep 2015
In reply to All:

Add another two pairs to the ever growing list. Massive shame as they are a great fit. Both me and my girlfriend bought a pair in March (his and hers - very sad I know!) and within a couple of months we were both experiencing the same problems as outlined by others above. Large section of sole/rand separating around the front of the shoe plus some smaller sections around the forefoot. In fairness I haven't pursued refund/replacement as these were bought from Germany and now 6 months old so wasn't sure how far I'd get.

Interestingly, I'm just back from the wall where I've been looking at a few pairs to decide what I'm going for next. In conversation with the owner about the problem we've had he promptly produced a pair of 2 month old Katana lace, ready for return, with a huge flap on both feet where the sole/rand at the toe sections has come apart.

Disappointing all round really. Might chance a resole but won't be buying new again (be interesting to see if Llanberis Resole have had a lot through with same issue).

FWIW to folk asking about alternatives - by far and away the best wear I've had from a shoe was a pair of Scarpa Vapour V's but the heel pinched for a couple of months before becoming comfortable. Tried on the EB Django's earlier - felt like a decent fit out of the box but can't comment on performance. Anyone have any other recommended alternatives with a similar fit?

Sorry for the lengthy read!
GravitySucks - on 17 Sep 2015
In reply to Sportiva:

Problem, what problem ? admittedly it could be difficult to identify the issue when your head is lodged firmly up your ......
Durbs on 21 Sep 2015
In reply to GravitySucks:

I stopped using Katanas for this reason - they just didn't last. Annoying as it took a while to find anything that fit my foot as well - but I can strongly recommend Tenaya Oasis; cheaper, more comfortable (though a struggle to get on), and perform better IMHO.
Stefan Kruger on 21 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

I've climbed exclusively in Katanas and Miuras since 2006 or so. Over the last few years, the toe delam problem has gotten unmanageable, especially on Katanas - La Sportiva off-the-record admitted they had a manufacturing issue, and I then switched to Miuras - these were a bit better (had to send back a few pairs). They claimed to have addressed the issue now. The shop I bought most of my shoes from (Dick's Climbing) has been very supportive and helpful in getting shoes replaced.

La Sportiva has had this problem for years. Shame, as they're the best-fitting shoes I've ever had, so as a sucker I keep going back for more.
GravitySucks - on 21 Sep 2015
In reply to Stefan Kruger:

I would be interested to hear what exactly Sportiva have admitted to and what they did to fix it (and when) because it is still happening and apparently getting worse.

Sadly they dont appear to want to talk to their customers.
Neil Pratt - on 21 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

not just their climbing shoes - I had a pair of Trango Evos go after 3 months, shop replaced them with Trango Cubes which have lasted slightly longer but still well under a year. Wife has a set of Evos with a peeling rand well under a year, and I've chatted with at least two other people who've had similar problems with Trangos. It's a pity, as I love the fit and style of Trangos, but I can't afford to burn through £250 worth of boots in under 6 months and have it described as "fair wear and tear".
machine on 27 Sep 2015
In reply to Neil Pratt:

My Trango Evo S have started to fall apart after their 3rd use. Not happy.
torquil on 28 Sep 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

I just had this thread mentioned to me by one of my customers and thought I'd give my 2 pence worth. (for those that don't know me, I run Llanberis Resoles.)

I see lots of Sportivas through here and lots of them are the Katana lace, and yes I see lots of them with delamination at the toe. If this had happened to one of my resoles I'd definitely be re-glueing them for free and if it happened to a new pair of shoes I'd be contacting the makers for sure.

Once the rubber peels its important to do something about it straight away as that portion of rubber will wear down really quickly and once its worn way it much harder to tell how it was caused - i.e. whether it was a genuine delamination or just wear and tear. If you catch it early then it should be obvious that it's a delamination due to a fault in the shoe. If you are in any doubt then feel free to email me a photo and I can give you my opinion.

Also once it has worn away there is no point reglueing it - you'd need a resole or new shoe. If you catch it early then a re-glue will solve it easily. I'd normally only charge £5 for a quick reglue like that if you can't be bothered with returning them to Sportiva.

In Sportivas defence I'd like to say that in general I find their shoes the best made shoes out there and certainly the best to resole (along with Scarpas). Strangely the Katana Lace is probably the best shoe of all to resole, they hold their shape really well and can be done multiple times, I'd happily resole them all day long. Conversely Anasazis, which rarely delaminate from new, are really prone to delaminating when resoled.
Stefan Kruger on 28 Sep 2015
In reply to GravitySucks:

If you recall, the design changed - it used to have a little round logo 'disk' on the under side; now there's a circular hole instead. When this changed, LaS told me that they had manufacturing issues - and this seems to be when the problems started. They claimed that after the first batch, this was resolved. It seemed to get marginally better, but only marginally. They have become more hard line in accepting returns now.
GravitySucks - on 29 Sep 2015
In reply to Stefan Kruger:

> They have become more hard line in accepting returns now.

Good to see that they are such a customer focused company ? ! It's like going back in time twenty years when you should consider yourself privileged to give your money to Sportiva.
machine on 02 Oct 2015
In reply to machine:

I took my Trango Evo S back to the shop I bought them from as the rand has split from top to bottom on the front of the left boot and the little badge has fallen off the side. The shop sent them back to Lyon who replied with something along the lines of "this is general wear and tear you must have kicked a sharp piece of rock which has split the rand as a result we will not be replacing or fixing your boots". I have used these 3 times length of time worn in total I recon is about 18 hours. I paid £170 for these plus £20.00 to return them = £190.00 so for the privilege of wearing these boots it has so far cost me £10.55 per hour walked and now I am left with a pair of boots that are neither good for use or ornament. La Sportiva advertise these boots as a “multi purpose light weight alpine boot for classic 3 season alpine climbing and hiking" and are rated at B1 but it seems that they are no match for the mighty Fairfield horse shoe or Great End. Lyon seem to think that 3 short days is an acceptable life span for this style of boot. If so then these boots arnt fit for purpose and I shall be pointing them in the direction of the sale of goods act 1979 sections 14(2) , 14(3). I have contacted La Sportiva directly about this issue and am awaiting a reply. Im going to dig my heels in on this one. Lets just hope they don't delaminate before I get a reply.
Madsenita on 05 Oct 2015
In reply to Ayrton:
Hi

Your vendor always will be your first point of contact (whoever and wherever he is)
I agree that first use is no good, but after a few climbs, specially indoors, shoes tends to wear A LOT quicker than you think! Basically, indoor climbing walls are 'sandpaper' to climbing shoes.... Depending on you climbing style, if you drag your feet up the wall..... forget it!
6
GravitySucks - on 05 Oct 2015
In reply to Madsenita:

I feel that you are missing the point, these shoes are not wearing out, they are falling to pieces, ok I exaggerate a tad but not much, the sole is coming away from the rest of the shoe! This is not the product of lazy / clumsy footwork, it is a fault in the design of the shoe. I have many years experience of climbing and consider my footwork one of my stronger attributes, given that I am fundamentally weak, I rely on accurate and controlled foot placements to operate at a moderately advanced grade and yet this delamination has occured on a number of occations now and I am rapidly losing faith in Sportiva as they seem incapable of holding their hands up and admitting in public what they appear to have already admitted to in private.

I'd prefer not to have to switch vendors as this shoe has worked very well for me in the past but Sportiva dont seem to care if their customer base are pissed off, prefering to blame the customers themselves for inappropriate use etc but if that were the case then surely other vendors would be experiencing the same levels of shoe delamination which does not seem to be true.

The thing that annoys me most about this (other than the £300 I give them every year) is the deafening silence from Sportiva and their equally reticent importers Lyon Equipment. They couldn't give a .......
machine on 05 Oct 2015
In reply to GravitySucks:
I've been in contact with Lyon Equipment today about my substandard boots and its like flogging a dead horse. They really don't care.
Post edited at 22:12
Leearma on 05 Oct 2015
In reply to Ayrton:
To the open and last post as I'm not reading the other 67.

I would suggest that your shoes are suffering a manufacturing defective and not a design fault. With one days use you raise the issue with the company that sold the shoes and made a significant amount of cash from the sale. Note that if a business is any good this type of failing will be factored in. That is retail.

Of outdoor product - tents, clothing and particularly footwear are a nightmare to manage people's expectations. Footwear, rubber, rock and users...not a combination made in heaven.

With regards to the criticism of Lyon, if they entreated into a conversation with every person that made a grumble about poorly designed and faulty equipment, bla, bla, bla, there would be no La Sportiva or Lyon. That is not to say that they handle duff product, it is just there are many claims but few justified.

When Lyon gets it wrong, they hold their hands up. If anything they have told their manufactures to get a grip in the past.

They rely on their retail partners to handle returns in a responsible manner...not just agree with the consumer and wack them back to Lyon for them to be the bad guys.

The retail market is very different place to the market when I was first got involved and to be honest I don't think much of the shops... there are plenty that talk the talk but do they really walk the walk... and glad to say I have nothing with outdoor distribution anymore. Oh nearly forgot, the internet, king of cheap and poor service and killing retail...

A closing point on spending 300 sheets on rock shoes, delivered in the friendliest manner I can muster is change the brand or get better and sponsored!

And a true and honest closing point to all of you who read this that deal with returned product... keep the faith you will find a way to use the skills you learn to earn more money and have more time off and escape the smelly foot ware and clothes... back slaps all-round you ignored heroes.
Post edited at 22:13
6
Steve Perry - on 06 Oct 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

Interesting thread. I bought some Katanas a few years ago and must say they were the best fitting shoes I've had and really great to climb in but they lasted no more than a few months for exactly the same reason as everyone else. I very nearly bought another pair thinking they were from a bad batch but didn't....phew!


Ysgo - on 06 Oct 2015
In reply to everyone with complaints about quality from Sportiva:

Scarpa
Steve Perry - on 06 Oct 2015
In reply to Ysgo:

> Scarpa

Used them ever since.
machine on 06 Oct 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

I attended a contract law course a few years ago and I contacted the lecturer who is an expert in this field. This is what he advised

I think you have a rock solid case, the problem is enforcing it without too much time and trouble. The shop with whom you have a contract are responsible for selling you a product which is in contravention of Section 14(2) of the Sale of Goods Act regarding Satisfactory Quality the shoes are obviously not "durable" and for that price your expectations are certainly not being fulfilled. The manufacturers statements appear to be an attempt to put you off. Tell the Shop you wish them to assume their responsibilities under the legislation( Although I am semi retired I understand Consumers in Europe now have a 2 year Warranty) otherwise you will commence an action in the Small Claims Court- check the up to date costs and procedures -they have changed since my experiences. Also tell the manufacturer of your intentions and that you will make known through Social Media the developments. This is the embarrassment factor which sometimes works. In my experience these people will hang out till the very last before paying up or replacing the shoes. Do you know a good Cobbler who can attest to the fact that they were badly made? Be persistent and keep records of any exchanges. Good luck.


Kind Regards


JDC - on 07 Oct 2015
In reply to machine:

I really don't think this is a rock solid case. The problem is demonstrating that wear is premature rather than normal wear and tear. It's very subjective. I know how much wear my shoes have had, not a lot, and I'm unhappy. But present my shoes as evidence and they look a bit tatty. All rock shoes do after a few weeks.

For me, it's simply not worth the hassle of sending them back as I know I'll just get "normal wear and tear" excuse from Lyon. However, I didn't realise it was a widespread issue until this thread so I'll simply not buy them again.
2
nufkin - on 07 Oct 2015
In reply to machine:

> Do you know a good Cobbler who can attest to the fact that they were badly made?

Isn't this a problem? There can't be that many people qualified to objectively judge whether a used climbing shoe is badly made, or just misused. I'd imagine people at Lyon would probably be among them, which presumably is why shops send them any returns for assessment, but obviously they might not be regarded as impartial.

Do shops have to replace items breaching Sales of Goods contracts, or can they choose to repair them?
machine on 07 Oct 2015
In reply to nufkin:

I believe they can choose to repair them as long as its to a satisfactory standard.
humptydumpty - on 07 Oct 2015
In reply to machine:

> I believe they can choose to repair them as long as its to a satisfactory standard.

Only a couple of months in, but so far I'm finding resoles tend to be more durable than the original Sportiva job. So as long as the repair's done by a third party it could be a good bet
machine on 07 Oct 2015
In reply to dashed:

My boulder x looked a right mess when I took them back to the shop they looked as if they were years old not 1 week old and I had a right old fight to get them replaced but my persistence paid off. However the second pair only lasted 6 outings before the leather split. My Trango Evo S that I currently have an issue with are the same. I've worn them 3 times but they look as if they have been in a fight with a grizzly bear and lost. In fact the words used by Lyon were unfortunate accident and they used an example of a buckled wheel in a car crash as an explanation as to why they wouldn't be replacing them.

I've also contacted La Sportiva in Italy 4 times now and they have not replied to any of my Emails. I then sent a mail to La Sportiva in Boulder Colorado who replied straight away but unfortunately they have no durostiction in the UK and Europe but they did apologise for the situation we find ourselves in. I plan to phone La Sportiva Italy and see what they have to say about this situation. I am also going to contact a few people that may have a bit of pull to try and help out. Too many people are losing money and climbing time due to this issue.
nicboarder - on 07 Oct 2015
In reply to Ayrton: yes, on womens katanas. Took em back to wall and was given a refund as it was clear there was something wrong with them. I later found out that the distributors wouldn't give the wall the money back. Won't be getting katanas again.

zv - on 08 Oct 2015
In reply to Ayrton:

I really feel La Sportiva should respond to this thread. Judging by all these stories, I think they might have lost many potential customers. I am one of them - a happy Scarpa user who was tempted to try the Futuras. I think I'll stick to my Instincts.
machine on 10 Oct 2015
In reply to zmv:

I have now sent 4 emails to La Sportiva in Italy and have sent one in Italian just in case they don't have Google translate but I am yet to receive a single reply.

contact emails if you want to go direct are

Outdoor@lyon.co.uk
lasportiva@lasportiva.com (Italy)
custserv@sportiva.com (Colorado)

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