UKC

Replacing damaged slings on cams

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 Morty 03 Oct 2021

Is there anywhere that replaces damaged slings on camming devices? 

In reply to Morty:

The company that makes them normally. DMM have a relatively pricey service if you send them to Llanberis. BD do it for free for UK based climbers, but you do have to pay the shipping to send them over. They seem to pay to send them back. Not sure the situation with other companies.

There are companies or maybe a company that will resling any cam in the US, friends have used them, but at least for a long time I don't think anywhere in Europe would do it.

 Morty 03 Oct 2021
In reply to TobyA:

That's great - thanks.  I have a few older cams that I'd like to service by replacing the slings. It sounds like a bit of a nuisance having to send them to several different manufacturers though.  I'll probably just DIY it.  

Cheers. 

In reply to Morty:

What do you do when the rope on your hex, moacs, large nuts, etc get old. Buy some more rope.

When cam slings get old, buy some more tape. Sure not as nice as bar-tack stitching from the factory, but better that than a sling that might snap.

Personally I insulating tape either side of a water/tape knot having had one somehow undo itself at a crucial point years ago. Yes, I know that's not UIAA certified method, but unless the stickyness of the insulating-tape somehow weakens the webbing-tape more than 50%, it'll still break in the knot anyway.

 cragtyke 03 Oct 2021
 Morty 03 Oct 2021
In reply to CantClimbTom:

> What do you do when the rope on your hex, moacs, large nuts, etc get old. Buy some more rope.

> When cam slings get old, buy some more tape. Sure not as nice as bar-tack stitching from the factory, but better that than a sling that might snap.

Thanks for such an obvious reply - just in case I was thick - cheers. 

FFS. 

 Morty 03 Oct 2021
In reply to cragtyke:

> The Chris Tan method.

Nice one - this looks useful. 

 RobertKett 03 Oct 2021
In reply to Morty:

Needlesports supply cord in precut lengths (i.e. with the ends properly heat- sealed) specifically for reslinging cams, hexes, rockcentrics. Tie it off with a triple fishermans' knot (they illustrate how):

https://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Climbing-Running/Rock-Trad-Climbing/Cord-Tape

It works fine.

In reply to CantClimbTom:

> better that than a sling that might snap.

Has that ever happened?

In reply to Howard J:

OK, then we would never have to re-sling anything... ever, no matter how old or damaged?

In reply to CantClimbTom:

You'd replace something that was damaged or showing excessive signs of wear, obviously. But is it really necessary to replace slings simply because of their age?  My understanding is that these time limits came in with certification, when it was made obligatory to set a date at which safety equipment must be retired, but that the dates chosen were fairly arbitrary.  I know there is some degradation with age, but has there actually been a case where an undamaged sling has failed? I'm not talking about ab tat left out in all weathers, but one that has seen ordinary use over many years.  Do we worry about this too much, especially in view of the difficulty in getting cams re-slung? Is a new sling from knotted cord actually better than an old factory-stitched one in otherwise good condition, apart from its age? 

Having said that, I recently saw a picture in my Facebook feed from 15 years ago and realised I was still using the same ropes, and they weren't new then.  I've replaced them.

In reply to Howard J:

Yes I get that and I agree with you there are plenty of examples of kit replaced unnecessarily for arbitrary age, but the original post did say "damaged slings" so I *assume* there must be at least signs of wear

 PaulJepson 07 Oct 2021
In reply to Howard J:

After a couple of seasons on grit or granite, the slings on a cam can look veeeeery tired. The cam itself is good for years but the sling isn't good for many. Why create so much waste when it's only a little loop of fabric that needs renewing? 

I've reslung my camalots a couple of times and it is an absolute asset to be able to do so.

 PaulJepson 07 Oct 2021
In reply to cragtyke:

> The Chris Tan method.

It's important to note that this should only be used on cams with a 'captive eye' (e.g. Wild Country Technical Friends or old BD Camalots). For cams with a cable thumb-loop, you should not rely on re-slinging yourself. 

BD did some testing here: https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_EU/stories/experience-story-qc-labreslinging-camalots-and-c3s/

 cragtyke 07 Oct 2021
In reply to PaulJepson:

Yes I've seen that before, interesting that they got failures at about 10kN with the thinner slings, which is the same as new Friends with the sling extended and stronger than Dragonflies.

In reply to CantClimbTom:

> the original post did say "damaged slings" so I *assume* there must be at least signs of wear

Yes, but their second post simply talked about servicing them by replacing the slings, which suggests it's just routine maintenance.

I agree entirely that you should replace them if they're damaged or if they're so worn that you've lost confidence in them, but I'm asking are there any real-world examples of slings failing due to age?

 cragtyke 07 Oct 2021
In reply to cragtyke:

Looks like Ocun do 30cm nylon slings in 16mm and 20mm for something a bit wider.

 PaulJepson 07 Oct 2021
In reply to cragtyke:

Mammut do their very good contact sling in 30cm also but it only comes in blue. The Ocun ones have a few different colours so you can match your cam if desired. The mammut ones are tidier,  as the ocuns have a really big stitching overlap and mammuts stitching is integral.

I've used both on cams before and always ended up going back to a professional resling. It's just a bit shit.

 spenser 07 Oct 2021
In reply to Howard J:

It's worth noting that slings are more severely compromised by being worn across their width than if you were to bang a nail through them (or if you were to cut part way through a brand new sling).

Some good info here:

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/tech-skills-retiring-textile-equipment

Coming from an engineering background dealing with safety related equipment on a regular basis I would suggest that being a tightwad relating to equipment affecting your safety and the safety of your climbing partners is a bad idea. If you can't get them reslung properly in the UK they're in excess of 10 years old and have probably seen a rather large amount of use.

In reply to spenser:

Thanks for that link.  It answers my question about real world failure. "No incidents of direct tape failure have yet been reported to the BMC Equipment Investigation Panel, since another component of the safety chain normally fails first, and seriously compromised slings are usually easily identified and discarded by the user."

It feels wrong to throw away gear simply because it's reached a certain age when it's not showing much signs of wear.  It appears to be very difficult to get cams re-slung in the UK.  

 Donotello 07 Oct 2021
In reply to RobertKett:

Black diamond - ‘Dyneema/Spectra doesn't hold a knot. Never use a knot with Dyneema/Spectra.’

Needlesports - ‘here’s a page full of dyneema for reslinging nuts hexes and cams.’

Post edited at 22:31
 spenser 07 Oct 2021
In reply to Howard J:

Note that it goes on to say that there have been other failures elsewhere.

The reason that you won't find anyone to do it in the UK is that they would be required to CE mark old gear, most likely without original design documentation and of unknown history, anyone willing to do that would be an absolute fool! 

 deepsoup 07 Oct 2021
In reply to Donotello:

> Black diamond - ‘Dyneema/Spectra tape doesn't hold a knot. Never use a knot with Dyneema/Spectra tape.’

> Needlesports - ‘here’s a page full of dyneema cord for reslinging nuts hexes and cams.’

FTFY

 jkarran 07 Oct 2021
In reply to Morty:

I threaded Mammut 6mm slings through mine when they needed refreshing. You can clip both loops normally or pull it into a larksfoot to extend them. Works well and very neat.

Jk

 mike reed 08 Oct 2021
In reply to Morty:

youtube.com/watch?v=0gWOiqPAZDw&

Interesting video on the life of slings etc etc

In reply to Morty:

I’ve a set of WC friends which I bought new in 1981, reslung them with tape and tape knots in 1990 after tons of use, again sometime around 2010. I guess they’re due a resling  now. Tapes and cords are to an extent, weakened around knots, but my take on this is that compared to other potential objective failure modes in use, it’s pretty minor.

Post edited at 09:41
In reply to spenser:

> Note that it goes on to say that there have been other failures elsewhere.

"...with the majority involving failure of badly weathered (abraded, frozen, thawed, UV damaged) in-situ slings. The other common mode of failure involves the melting of a sling from friction generated by pulling a rope through, or lowering off directly"  Neither situation applicable to slings on cams.

 PaulJepson 08 Oct 2021
In reply to paul__in_sheffield:

A knot will take 40%-60% of the strength away from tape when new so I guess if you're using 22kn tape then you've still got a pretty strong unit. 

 PaulJepson 08 Oct 2021
In reply to jkarran:

I found it a bit faffy. They hang too long (cams are generally on a loop about 10cm rather than 15cm), too many strands (4 instead of 2), partners got confused about what they can and can't clip, and there's always the danger of you fudging it up. If I was DIY-ing it, I'd much rather go with a closed-loop system to avoid any risk, even if it reduces the strength a bit with a knot.  

Yes you can always say "I've been using them for 10 years and I've never once clipped the wrong thing" but there's a first time for everything, and that first time could kill you. You're essentially adding a failure-point. 

I have a couple of old technical friends that I re-tied with 5.5mm dyneema cord. This is fine but would be a bulky pain for a full rack. 

Depending on how many brands the OP is rocking, it might be worth sending the majorities to the manufacturer to resling and DIYing the odd random one. 

 jkarran 08 Oct 2021
In reply to PaulJepson:

> I found it a bit faffy. They hang too long (cams are generally on a loop about 10cm rather than 15cm), too many strands (4 instead of 2), partners got confused about what they can and can't clip, and there's always the danger of you fudging it up. If I was DIY-ing it, I'd much rather go with a closed-loop system to avoid any risk, even if it reduces the strength a bit with a knot.  

I used very short slings (basically same as standard once doubled) but would actually have preferred longer personally, they weren't available in 6mm back then. Never worried about screwing it up, a quick look/tug is all that's needed which is automatic for me anyway.

> Yes you can always say "I've been using them for 10 years and I've never once clipped the wrong thing" but there's a first time for everything, and that first time could kill you.

I could certainly say 5 years without incident, I've barely touched them in the last 5. I climbed 10 years before I modified them with floppy slingdraws because they're useful but require care, as does climbing in general, something I'm comfortable with.

> You're essentially adding a failure-point.

I've never been very taken with the 'adding a failure point' argument especially where it's understood and doing something useful.

jk


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