UKC

This ambitious and stunning-looking new guide will equally delight low-to-mid-grade weekenders and higher performers who may think they've climbed it all, so our two-part review is written by one of each - Dan Bailey and Andy Moles.

Read more

A great shame none of the central belt crags made it in We had a fab few days around Sterling enjoying trad, sport and bouldering from natural crags, to man made holes in the ground. A great area not just for the locals.

Good honest review from both of you.  Its a pretty inspiring lump of a book which hasnt left my kitchen table since it arrived as everyone who comes over flicks through it.

I remember going out to beinn na seilg with Andy a few years ago to check routes and for him to take photos.  I couldnt understand why it was getting included but his theory at that time was that the guide needed to showcase multiple options in any one area (in that it would be a long drive for most for a days climbing in Ardnamurchan).

I do think that the guidebook team has done a great job with the photos (despite me appearing as "A climber"!) and especially getting so many photos of females climbing.  

The furniture shop?

Dumbarton Rock is in and its the only central belt crag I'm aware of as being a 'destination crag'.

I haven't been to all the crags on the book but looking at it I can't see anything I'd choose to drop for another central belt crag.  What would you have included?

Personally I'm fine with no Central Belt inclusions (apart from Dumby). There is a new Lowland Outcrops coming soon which will serve the purpose far better - as decent as crags like Cambusbarron and Limekilns are to have locally, they are not as Dave says 'destination' crags that you would travel for, unlike the majority of what is included.

You might argue that the coverage of some other areas, like Shetland and Galloway, is minimal enough that most people travelling there would want the local guide for those too, but at least this act as a showcase for them - the Central Belt crags hardly need that, as their location guarantees popularity.

In terms of what is included, I'm psyched to see some of the NE sea-cliffs given the photo topo treatment for the first time (having been left out of Gary's guides), as well as some of the Caithness cliffs and Beinn Laghail.

What a fantastic book.  Sad I know, but I’ve just spent a couple of hours ticking off the routes I’ve done – lots of reminiscing and happy memories.  However I was surprised to find that I’ve only done 551 routes out of the 1760 in the book, after 45 years of effort.  So lots more to do and a few new crags to visit.

Grade creep has once again increased my meagre tally of E4 leads with the upgrading of Kingpin.
I’d say there are a few too many high end extremes for a selected guide like this – 46 routes at E7 and above take up a fair bit of space, although I guess they provide inspiration and intrigue.

I’ve spotted a few wee errors, not least the naming of John Hall (instead of my wife!) in the photo of Final Selection.  If anyone spots any mistakes be sure to report it using the form here  https://www.smc.org.uk/publications/corrections  then the reprint will be perfect.

I think the only argument for including such crags would be to provide bail out options for visiting climbers rained off the crags in the hills further north. I suppose it comes down to whether the book is supposed to be a primarily a practical guide for visiting climbers or a showcase, verging on a coffee table book, for inspiration. I think their omission along with the inclusion of those really hard routes and rarely visited hard crags means it tends towards the latter.

I imagine I'm target audience for this guide: loves Scottish climbing but due to my unfortunate location do nothing like as much as I would like to and can't really justify buying the area guides. If I'm rained off the crags further north I'll be looking at the east coast or north west sea cliffs. I'm not driving all the way from London to visit some grotty quarry in the central belt, I've spent far too much time in the southern equivalents already!   

I had a brief glance at the guide last week and it looks magnificent. It won't be in my rucksack when I finally get to Carnmore or Creag An Dubh-loch but that's what phones are for. Can anyone comment on the accuracy or otherwise of the route and especially the approach descriptions? I've come unstuck several times using the Latters which seem to suffer from the author's great familiarity with the terrain. I've only had a close compare and contrast for the Carn Dearg route descriptions and the Wired seemed a little more precise and detailed. 

I couldn't resist counting. About 460 for me over 42 years, though I was quite surprised how many routes I wasn't sure whether I had done or not - I stopped ticking guide books or making lists many years ago!

Going through the whole book, one thing that struck me was the selection of just a part of a crag, leaving out a neighbouring section of pretty much equal quality and grade range - this might short change a visitor making a visit. Two examples would be the section of Ardmair right of Big Roof Buttress and Big Flat Wall at Latheronwheel, which I would have thought is the most appealing part of the whole crag. Also, as with Shetland, one wonders at the value as an actual guidebook for Lewis; if you were making the effort as a visitor to go there, you would want the option of quite a few more crags and therefore the definitive guide.

I was also surprised at the crags I had never even heard of.!

It must have been a nightmare making the selections.

Also in the sad camp, it took a while because I can never remember all the ones I've done on single pitch crags. 504 in 15 years for me.

Going through the book again made me notice a few more things - some more omissions of course, but in the same camp as the E7+ inclusions, the dangerous DWS stuff. Pretty much no one but Jules Lines wants to climb S3s (or even S2s...)!

But is it actually a destination crag on merit? It is just famous because of a handful of very hard test-pieces which are irrelevant to 99.9% of climbers - very few visitors are actually going to go there to climb. I think if you were going to include one Central Belt crag which would be "useful" for visitors it would probably be Limekilns with its good grade spread of quality pitches.

Or actually better, save the space and put in a couple more options on Shetland or Lewis.

I'm way more inclined to stop off at Dumby on my way north or south than any other Central Belt crag. Admittedly most likely to boulder, but some of the reasonably graded trad and sport is also very good. There are a lot of crags I'd sooner drop from the guidebook than Dumby, it's class!

The justification given for Dumby is that it has world class bouldering, trad & sport, I don't think any of the bouldering routes are mentioned though and whoever wrote it mistook the Warmup Wall for Eagle Boulder which is a bit of a howler. It's a bit subjective, but if the editorial team were playing central belt top trumps I think Dumby would do quite well.

So in that case include the bouldering and drop Garheugh!

Yes, it must have been difficult, although perhaps a enjoyable task. No two climbers would ever come up with the same selection.  Andy Nisbet had originally made a few curious choices, eg China Crag in Coire Lagan.

I think China Crag was a good choice. It's a short walk in for the Cuillin, can be out of the cloud when you can't find the Cioch in the mist. Nice routes and never been in a guide book.

I'm sure you're right.  And thats why its refreshing to see less well-known crags like The Dundonnell Slabs and Ben Loyal included.

Best crag in the UK.

Pedants corner.

Among the "wee errors" mentioned in an earlier post, I had a laugh at page 506 where Shetland mentioned as "surprisingly more than 60 miles" from northern Scotland. The shortest distance from the Scottish mainland to the southern tip of Shetland is 106 miles. It makes it the only part of the UK that is invisible from the mainland of Great Britain. That's not counting Rockall and a few islands hidden behind others, but actually below the horizon. Incidentally, St. Kilda is visible from Torridon.