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I need to replace my fluffy caterpillar of a rope, I've got a dry treated mammut rope at the moment http://www.dicksclimbing.com/collections/frontpage/products/dick-s-climbing... at the moment and was thinking of replacing like for like, but I saw Simond do a similar one for £20 less, and 10m longer http://www.decathlon.co.uk/rope-98-x-60m-id_8249403.html . I use my rope for everything from grit cragging to scottish winter routes so need something dry treated and durable.
What's the consensus on the quality of simond ropes compared to mammut?
Thanks
Post edited at 19:16
In reply to MysteriousCeorl:
This question is asked on a monthly basis. Have a Search and you'll find your answers.
This question is asked on a monthly basis. Have a Search and you'll find your answers.
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In reply to MysteriousCeorl:
Sorry if my reply sounded a bit cheeky. I checked your link and tried to order a 100m 8.9mm diam. version, which was only £119 delivered, but during the time it took me to complete the order, it was sold out, aaargh!
In short - the ropes are very good.
Sorry if my reply sounded a bit cheeky. I checked your link and tried to order a 100m 8.9mm diam. version, which was only £119 delivered, but during the time it took me to complete the order, it was sold out, aaargh!
In short - the ropes are very good.
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In reply to MysteriousCeorl:
I haven't had a rope by them but have had various hardware beiners , slings etc and they are very good quality ...not to mention a nifty pair of trousers that are top dollllaaaaa!
I haven't had a rope by them but have had various hardware beiners , slings etc and they are very good quality ...not to mention a nifty pair of trousers that are top dollllaaaaa!
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In reply to Fraser:
I've not used their ropes but buy lots of stuff from Decathlon, and generally think their stuff is great and exceedingly good value. Nevertheless I spoke to a tech guy from one of the well known rope manufacturers who said they couldn't work out how Simond could be producing ropes at that price. They bought one and did some testing on it on their rig and as he put it to me, they were very unimpressed with the results. You can obviously take that with a big pinch of salt as his employer is in competition with Simond/Decathlon and all PPE gear has to meet UIAA and CE test so is "safe" in that sense, but he wasn't going to climb on that rope!
I've not used their ropes but buy lots of stuff from Decathlon, and generally think their stuff is great and exceedingly good value. Nevertheless I spoke to a tech guy from one of the well known rope manufacturers who said they couldn't work out how Simond could be producing ropes at that price. They bought one and did some testing on it on their rig and as he put it to me, they were very unimpressed with the results. You can obviously take that with a big pinch of salt as his employer is in competition with Simond/Decathlon and all PPE gear has to meet UIAA and CE test so is "safe" in that sense, but he wasn't going to climb on that rope!
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In reply to MysteriousCeorl:
I bought a skinny Simond single rope out in France this summer, it's been great.
It's been put through a lot of abuse with alpine routes on both snow and rock, mountain routes back here and a summer of grit with a good few falls taken on to it. One resulted in the rope getting snagged into a vertical 'wrinkle' which tore the sheath away leaving just the core but held good and proper. Had it cut down and has been fine since. It is beginning to get a bit of a fur in places but given its usage I'm not disappointed in the slightest. £75 well spent (got it two days before brexit, might have been a bit more after!!)
I bought a skinny Simond single rope out in France this summer, it's been great.
It's been put through a lot of abuse with alpine routes on both snow and rock, mountain routes back here and a summer of grit with a good few falls taken on to it. One resulted in the rope getting snagged into a vertical 'wrinkle' which tore the sheath away leaving just the core but held good and proper. Had it cut down and has been fine since. It is beginning to get a bit of a fur in places but given its usage I'm not disappointed in the slightest. £75 well spent (got it two days before brexit, might have been a bit more after!!)
Post edited at 23:04
In reply to TobyA:
Interesting Toby, cheers for that info. I've not owned one of their ropes but have climbed extensively on a couple and found them both to be very good. One was a chunky work-horse style @ 9.8mm, the other a performance one @ 9.0mm.
On this basis, I was happy to try out the 8.9mm I mentioned above.
Interesting Toby, cheers for that info. I've not owned one of their ropes but have climbed extensively on a couple and found them both to be very good. One was a chunky work-horse style @ 9.8mm, the other a performance one @ 9.0mm.
On this basis, I was happy to try out the 8.9mm I mentioned above.
Post edited at 07:52
In reply to MysteriousCeorl:
I have a 9mm triple rated rope, have not had a issue with it. Only got a few slighty fluffy bits after a rappeling to bail on a alpine route. Tied it to a 8.5mm beal double rope, both ropes has similair fluffyness, where they where rubbing on the rocks. So not much difference there either.
I have a 9mm triple rated rope, have not had a issue with it. Only got a few slighty fluffy bits after a rappeling to bail on a alpine route. Tied it to a 8.5mm beal double rope, both ropes has similair fluffyness, where they where rubbing on the rocks. So not much difference there either.
In reply to TobyA:
Could UKC get access to a rig and perform stress tests on a group of ropes? Would be interesting to see how Simond compared, and how many other manufacturers would voluntarily submit their ropes for comparison. Commercial rivals conducting private tests then making vague, off the record claims to a UKC reviewer who repeats them in public is obviously not an ideal situation.
Could UKC get access to a rig and perform stress tests on a group of ropes? Would be interesting to see how Simond compared, and how many other manufacturers would voluntarily submit their ropes for comparison. Commercial rivals conducting private tests then making vague, off the record claims to a UKC reviewer who repeats them in public is obviously not an ideal situation.
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In reply to TobyA:
Well Simond don't (or certainly didn't) produce their own ropes - as far as I know they are manufactured by Cousin (I think, though I'm not absolutely sure???) So the comment would be better worded '... don't know how they can sell for that price.' One can only guess that it's some sort of lost leader or at least a conscious decision to undercut competition? Or am I too cynical?
@ Fraser. I've had a skinny Decathlon rope. It was (in fact is, as I don't seem to be able to kill it off) one of the most hard wearing ropes I've owned. My only gripe with it is that I don't find it as elastic as say, a Beal Joker or Stinger, and consequently falls are harder. My Beals also handle better/nicer. However it's quite old now and has almost certainly been superseded so I'd imagine these criticisms may have been addressed.
Well Simond don't (or certainly didn't) produce their own ropes - as far as I know they are manufactured by Cousin (I think, though I'm not absolutely sure???) So the comment would be better worded '... don't know how they can sell for that price.' One can only guess that it's some sort of lost leader or at least a conscious decision to undercut competition? Or am I too cynical?
@ Fraser. I've had a skinny Decathlon rope. It was (in fact is, as I don't seem to be able to kill it off) one of the most hard wearing ropes I've owned. My only gripe with it is that I don't find it as elastic as say, a Beal Joker or Stinger, and consequently falls are harder. My Beals also handle better/nicer. However it's quite old now and has almost certainly been superseded so I'd imagine these criticisms may have been addressed.
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In reply to jon:
As the rope liked to is identical to the Cousin Transalp, Simond previously sold Cousin ropes and there aren´ t that many French manufacturers anyway I´ d bet good money that it was actually made by one of the oldest climbing rope manufacturers in the world.
That TobyA´ s acquantance is talking bullshit ..........
As the rope liked to is identical to the Cousin Transalp, Simond previously sold Cousin ropes and there aren´ t that many French manufacturers anyway I´ d bet good money that it was actually made by one of the oldest climbing rope manufacturers in the world.
That TobyA´ s acquantance is talking bullshit ..........
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In reply to GrantM:
But they have all already been independently tested and the results published, what´ s the point?
> Could UKC get access to a rig and perform stress tests on a group of ropes? Would be interesting to see how Simond compared, and how many other manufacturers would voluntarily submit their ropes for comparison. Commercial rivals conducting private tests then making vague, off the record claims to a UKC reviewer who repeats them in public is obviously not an ideal situation.
But they have all already been independently tested and the results published, what´ s the point?
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In reply to TobyA:
I don't doubt your story, but, without detail, this sounds like classic FUD. In what way were they unimpressed? Why wouldn't they want to use the rope?
> ... I spoke to a tech guy from one of the well known rope manufacturers who said they ... were very unimpressed with the results ... [and] he wasn't going to climb on that rope!
I don't doubt your story, but, without detail, this sounds like classic FUD. In what way were they unimpressed? Why wouldn't they want to use the rope?
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In reply to TobyA:
Dislike from me Toby, I can't stand this kind of 'gossip' when it comes to technical matters. If they think there's a problem they should publish their test results.
> Nevertheless I spoke to a tech guy from one of the well known rope manufacturers who said they couldn't work out how Simond could be producing ropes at that price. They bought one and did some testing on it on their rig and as he put it to me, they were very unimpressed with the results. You can obviously take that with a big pinch of salt as his employer is in competition with Simond/Decathlon and all PPE gear has to meet UIAA and CE test so is "safe" in that sense, but he wasn't going to climb on that rope!
Dislike from me Toby, I can't stand this kind of 'gossip' when it comes to technical matters. If they think there's a problem they should publish their test results.
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In reply to MysteriousCeorl:
I have a simond wall rope. Although it is UIAA rated for single use I find it gives a very harsh catch, so much so that I've become reluctant to use it when leading routes at my limit where I'm likely to fall off. I think I'll stump up the extra and a rope from a bigger name next time.
I have a simond wall rope. Although it is UIAA rated for single use I find it gives a very harsh catch, so much so that I've become reluctant to use it when leading routes at my limit where I'm likely to fall off. I think I'll stump up the extra and a rope from a bigger name next time.
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In reply to bigbobbyking:
If you think there is a problem with the rope you should ask the BMC technical committee to investigate. You seem to be implying that the rope falls outside it's specification, so if the rope is not too old, you should let them know.
All rope manufacturers do a 'budget' or 'entry level rope', and they tend to be a similar spec, including Simonds. In my own experience I find budget ropes fine at first but they don't last as long as more expensive ones. If you want a long lasting rope don't just go for a brand, go for the higher specced ones.
If you think there is a problem with the rope you should ask the BMC technical committee to investigate. You seem to be implying that the rope falls outside it's specification, so if the rope is not too old, you should let them know.
> I think I'll stump up the extra and a rope from a bigger name next time.
All rope manufacturers do a 'budget' or 'entry level rope', and they tend to be a similar spec, including Simonds. In my own experience I find budget ropes fine at first but they don't last as long as more expensive ones. If you want a long lasting rope don't just go for a brand, go for the higher specced ones.
Post edited at 11:43
In reply to Mike Stretford:
The rope has felt catchy from brand new. Tbh I hadn't really considered that it might be faulty in some way, I just thought it was a budget rope and this was a consequence of that. Looking into it now its rated impact force (which I assume is the relevant number) is similiar to other single ropes. It's not had a lot of use, although it is now 8 months old. Is this the kind of thing the BMC technical committee are interested in? I might drop them an email.
For reference: my Decathlon rope http://www.decathlon.co.uk/rock-rope-10-mm-x-25-m-id_8360074.html
A similar entry level offering from Mammut http://www.rockrun.com/rock-climbing/software/climbing-ropes/mammut-promo-1...
The rope has felt catchy from brand new. Tbh I hadn't really considered that it might be faulty in some way, I just thought it was a budget rope and this was a consequence of that. Looking into it now its rated impact force (which I assume is the relevant number) is similiar to other single ropes. It's not had a lot of use, although it is now 8 months old. Is this the kind of thing the BMC technical committee are interested in? I might drop them an email.
For reference: my Decathlon rope http://www.decathlon.co.uk/rock-rope-10-mm-x-25-m-id_8360074.html
A similar entry level offering from Mammut http://www.rockrun.com/rock-climbing/software/climbing-ropes/mammut-promo-1...
In reply to bigbobbyking: If you strongly suspect it is out tof spec then you should have it checked and they should be interested. From your profile you have a fair bit of experience so would be used to the differences belay devices ect can introduce?
In reply to Mike Stretford:
^ What a load of bollocks...
> If you strongly suspect it is out tof spec then you should have it checked and they should be interested. From your profile you have a fair bit of experience so would be used to the differences belay devices ect can introduce?
^ What a load of bollocks...
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In reply to Jim 1003:
The BMC do investigate climbing equipment were there has been a failure or a fault is suspected.
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/technical-reports
That's just a fact.
The second sentence is a subtle way of asking if the poster has enough experience to rule out other factors, or should see what other people think.
https://www.petzl.com/GB/en/Sport/Influence-of-the-belay-device?ActivityNam...
So what's your problem Jim? Keyboard commando needing to fire a few shots off?
The BMC do investigate climbing equipment were there has been a failure or a fault is suspected.
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/technical-reports
That's just a fact.
The second sentence is a subtle way of asking if the poster has enough experience to rule out other factors, or should see what other people think.
https://www.petzl.com/GB/en/Sport/Influence-of-the-belay-device?ActivityNam...
So what's your problem Jim? Keyboard commando needing to fire a few shots off?
Post edited at 15:26
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In reply to bigbobbyking:
The Mammut spec at RocknRun looks a bit whack, specifically the static/dynamic elongations.
Does the Mammut rope really have zero static elongation when loaded, and only 7.6% dynamic elongation (vs 31.9% for the Decathlon)?
A look at the Mammut website suggests R&R have transcribed the details (of what appears to be an obsolete product; maybe why it's on sale at £40?) incorrectly. cf.
https://www.mammut.ch/GB/en_GB/B2C-Kategorie/Equipment/Ropes/Single-Ropes/1...
Yes, that's the relevant number.
The Mammut spec at RocknRun looks a bit whack, specifically the static/dynamic elongations.
Does the Mammut rope really have zero static elongation when loaded, and only 7.6% dynamic elongation (vs 31.9% for the Decathlon)?
A look at the Mammut website suggests R&R have transcribed the details (of what appears to be an obsolete product; maybe why it's on sale at £40?) incorrectly. cf.
https://www.mammut.ch/GB/en_GB/B2C-Kategorie/Equipment/Ropes/Single-Ropes/1...
> Looking into it now its rated impact force (which I assume is the relevant number)
Yes, that's the relevant number.
Post edited at 17:52
In reply to Mike Stretford:
I think there is lot more cooperation between gear producers than might at first be presumed - Kolin Powick from BD definitely said this recently http://enormocast.com/episode-114-kolin-powick-uses-science-to-keep-you-ali... so I don't think they have much interest in trying to criticize each others products (what brand hasn't had a recall for example).
But ropes do vary in quality and functionality - anyone here remember Marlow and Cairngorm ropes?
I think there is lot more cooperation between gear producers than might at first be presumed - Kolin Powick from BD definitely said this recently http://enormocast.com/episode-114-kolin-powick-uses-science-to-keep-you-ali... so I don't think they have much interest in trying to criticize each others products (what brand hasn't had a recall for example).
But ropes do vary in quality and functionality - anyone here remember Marlow and Cairngorm ropes?
In reply to Mike Stretford:
There's not been any failure it's somebody who is not that keen on his rope for an unknown reason, there is no fault apparent, if the BMC investigate that I'll show my arse in Woolworth's window...
> The BMC do investigate climbing equipment were there has been a failure or a fault is suspected.
> That's just a fact.
> The second sentence is a subtle way of asking if the poster has enough experience to rule out other factors, or should see what other people think.
> So what's your problem Jim? Keyboard commando needing to fire a few shots off?
There's not been any failure it's somebody who is not that keen on his rope for an unknown reason, there is no fault apparent, if the BMC investigate that I'll show my arse in Woolworth's window...
In reply to Jim 1003:
*Woolworth's* window? I think you're safe with that bet!
> ... if the BMC investigate that I'll show my arse in Woolworth's window...
*Woolworth's* window? I think you're safe with that bet!
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In reply to Jim 1003:
Ok, you didn't read any of the posts in that conversation properly. You cheeky Brexiteers with your total disregard for details.... what will we do with you
> There's not been any failure it's somebody who is not that keen on his rope for an unknown reason, there is no fault apparent, if the BMC investigate that I'll show my arse in Woolworth's window...
Ok, you didn't read any of the posts in that conversation properly. You cheeky Brexiteers with your total disregard for details.... what will we do with you
In reply to TobyA:
Sure you get what you pay for. In the case of climbing ropes the specifications are on the packaging, and the specs for the Simond ropes are similar to the 'entry' level ropes from the other brands. If they don't meet the specs on the packaging then it's a problem and should be reported, if the ropes do, this conversation you had was just waffle (I suspect the latter).
> But ropes do vary in quality and functionality - anyone here remember Marlow and Cairngorm ropes?
Sure you get what you pay for. In the case of climbing ropes the specifications are on the packaging, and the specs for the Simond ropes are similar to the 'entry' level ropes from the other brands. If they don't meet the specs on the packaging then it's a problem and should be reported, if the ropes do, this conversation you had was just waffle (I suspect the latter).
Post edited at 11:21
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In reply to MysteriousCeorl:
The Simond rope you linked to isn't dry treated so no good for you. You're after a mid to top end rope which they don't do.
I've been looking myself and Dick's rope you linked to looks like a good deal, though I may go for
http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/beal-booster-iii-97mm-60m-p-472.html
> I need to replace my fluffy caterpillar of a rope, I've got a dry treated mammut rope at the moment http://www.dicksclimbing.com/collections/frontpage/productsat the moment and was thinking of replacing like for like, but I saw Simond do a similar one for £20 less, and 10m longer http://www.decathlon.co.uk/rope-98-x-60m-id_8249403.html . I use my rope for everything from grit cragging to scottish winter routes so need something dry treated and durable.
The Simond rope you linked to isn't dry treated so no good for you. You're after a mid to top end rope which they don't do.
I've been looking myself and Dick's rope you linked to looks like a good deal, though I may go for
http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/beal-booster-iii-97mm-60m-p-472.html
Post edited at 15:33
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