/ Thoughts on the click up?

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L MattClimb - on 11 Apr 2019

So I've been having a look, and a play around, with ABD's that are on the market, and along with the standard GriGri and Eddy, I also had the chance to fiddle with the Click Up. From what I could see, it's a harder learning experience and isn't as intuitive; but once I got the feel of it I preferred it over both the GriGri and Eddy, and has a major advantage of weight.

Other than the main disadvantage I've read online which is overheating on long abseils, are there any other things to consider when choosing an abd (For personal climbing)?

Also, Carabiner recommendations to go with? The one they stock with it has the weird ACL, where there is a chance if you let it go slack your rope/abseil loop can push against the wire gate and push it open into the main area of the crab. I've been using a black diamond gridlock with my regular belay plate, but it's quite a narrow design, so it might be a squidge with the click up.

Any advice would be appreciated

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Dave Cundy - on 12 Apr 2019
In reply to MattClimb:

I bought one six months ago, following a recommendation from a friend.  Its a brilliant piece of design.  The only thing i have yet to master is releasing it after it has gone into auto-lock mode.  But then i've only used it for a couple of weeks so far.  I haven't tried abbing with it but have no regrets so far.

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rgold - on 12 Apr 2019
In reply to Dave Cundy:

> The only thing i have yet to master is releasing it after it has gone into auto-lock mode.  But then i've only used it for a couple of weeks so far.  I haven't tried abbing with it but have no regrets so far.

Keeping your hand on the brake strand, place the heels of both hands on the underside of the device and shove it away from your body.  You can do this almost instantaneously while belaying.  It also works at the end of a rappel when, because of rope stretch, the device is still under tension after you land.

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girlymonkey - on 12 Apr 2019
In reply to MattClimb:

Along a similar lone as the click up, have a look at the black diamond atc pilot. 

I like the click up, but prefer the pilot. I find it smoother.

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Chris Craggs - on 12 Apr 2019
In reply to MattClimb:

The Click-Up is my preferred belay device by a mile - straightforward and effective. I tried the Mk 2 recently but didn't get on with it, it has a 'halfway' locked position that is hard to release  if there is any load on the rope.

You need a 'hardened' krab with it or the rope chews through it pretty quickly,

Chris

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SGD - on 12 Apr 2019
In reply to Chris Craggs:

I too use and like the Click up and agree with Chris in that you really need a hardened belay krab as you will start to see significant wear on the krab where the device makes contact when it locks. We changed to the supplied krab when we noticed this to an Elderid Bullet which appears to be much better in this respect but as the profile is not as round then we did notice more slippage through the device.

The reason I say 'like' above is we have changed to a BD Pilot which I prefer. One of the reasons for the change was the click up has a tendency to pig tail your rope if you do not use it exactly as specified in the instructions. i.e. if when lowering your brake hand is not perpendicular underneath the device this will add a twist into to rope. User error I know but something we do not seem to experience with the Pilot.

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mountain.martin - on 12 Apr 2019
In reply to MattClimb:

Had the click up for a couple of years and really like it. 

I did use it with a different krab a few times and it annoyingly clicked up a lot when you didn't want it to. I think this was with a thinner krab, changed to a chunkier one (before I found the original supplied one again) and this cured the problem.

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Dave Cundy - on 12 Apr 2019
In reply to Chris Craggs:

As the krab supplied with it is coloured, I wonder if it has been anodised specifically to harden the surface and hence, prolong its life.

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gilesf - on 12 Apr 2019
In reply to rgold:

"Keeping your hand on the brake strand, place the heels of both hands on the underside of the device and shove it away from your body.  You can do this almost instantaneously while belaying.  It also works at the end of a rappel when, because of rope stretch, the device is still under tension after you land."

Really? Am I missing something obvious. If the device is loaded then you'll either be lowering the climber back down, in which case it stays in the locked position but you apply pressure to the back of the device to lessen the braking force on the rope, or, the climber is getting back on, in which case the load on the device will be reduced and 'unlocking' it is a simple one handed operation.

I've used mine at the wall and outside for about three years, I've had no problems with the supplied crab and definitely never had to use two hands to 'unlock' it.

I will say I don't abseil with it, and wouldn't either.

Post edited at 10:43
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misterb - on 12 Apr 2019
In reply to MattClimb:

Mammut smart is easier to use i think

Had a click up a few years ago and it was ok but not as slick as the smart

Bd pilot looks the same design

I like the thumb hook control on the smart

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Neil Williams - on 12 Apr 2019
In reply to misterb:

I think out of the brake assist devices the Smart is presently my favourite, as it works completely intuitively and basically acts like a tubular device (so is easy to learn) while providing the additional safety of a brake assist device.

That said I don't presently use one - my present device is a classic Bug!

Post edited at 12:56
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Iamgregp - on 12 Apr 2019
In reply to MattClimb:

I've used the click-up for a few years now and am really pleased with it.  It does takes a little bit of getting used to at first as if you snatch the rope too much it clicks up and you can't give slack  (me and my partner made a rule - every time this happens that's +1 beer you have to buy the other.  We soon sorted our technique and it rarely happens now).  However after a few times out you soon get used to feeding the rope more smoothly  and this is no longer a problem. 

I've used a few other ABD's and if I'm honest with you I think the feel of it is more intuitive than some of the others out there as it's a very similar action to using an ATC, which I think may be a big reason for its popularity (I'm seeing them more and more at the crag these days)

There is a fair bit of friction when lowering in clicked up mode so it can get very hot on lowers, for this reason it's not supposed to be used as an abseil device, I'd use an atc or something for abseiling.

Use the carabiner it's sold with - the reason it is sold with this is that the profile of that particular is correct for the physics of the device so the manufacturers know that the device will definitely click up when you need it to, and rarely when it's not supposed to.  Other carabiners may work just as well, others worse, but we don't which do and don't so for that reason it's always sold with the 'biner.  I've used a click up for 3 years, and I've never had my belay loop push against the wire gate and open it like you describe, it just doesn't happen.

Ok, so real negatives on the device - It does twist the rope a bit, if you've got a rope that's already a bit kinked (guilty) this isn't gonna help.  Our other (not taken out of the packet wrong) non twisted ropes are fine.  Also, the having to use the supplied 'biner is a bit of a pain, ours is getting quite worn now, and I can't just replace it with one of the dozen others we've got knocking around. It doesn't stow flat on your harness when you're not using it.  Sometimes the device gets caught up in the gate of the 'biner and you have to rattle it loads to get it free. 

I'd say the negatives are minor irritants, however, it's a good device and I've no thoughts of swapping ours for something else.

That said, some of the new ABD's (pilot, revo, that Salewa one) weren't on the market when we got this, so not sure if any of those is better or not...

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rgold - on 12 Apr 2019
In reply to gilesf:

> "Keeping your hand on the brake strand, place the heels of both hands on the underside of the device and shove it away from your body.  You can do this almost instantaneously while belaying.  It also works at the end of a rappel when, because of rope stretch, the device is still under tension after you land."

> Really? Am I missing something obvious. If the device is loaded then you'll either be lowering the climber back down, in which case it stays in the locked position but you apply pressure to the back of the device to lessen the braking force on the rope, or, the climber is getting back on, in which case the load on the device will be reduced and 'unlocking' it is a simple one handed operation.

> I've used mine at the wall and outside for about three years, I've had no problems with the supplied crab and definitely never had to use two hands to 'unlock' it.

> I will say I don't abseil with it, and wouldn't either.

I've used the Alpine Up since they first came out.  My comments are about that device.

If you have to pump slack quickly to the leader for a clip, you might lock up the device.  The more used to it you get, the less likely it is to happen, but sometimes you can be surprised by a fast pull when the leader is out of sight.   The method I described instantly gets you out of this short-roping situation.

I abseil with mine all the time, and the method I described helps to unclip at the bottom.

I've never had any problem with the supplied carabiner and am still using the original one.

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L MattClimb - on 12 Apr 2019
In reply to misterb:

> Mammut smart is easier to use i think

> Had a click up a few years ago and it was ok but not as slick as the smart

> Bd pilot looks the same design

> I like the thumb hook control on the smart

I've tried both the pilot and the smart, preferred the smart even though the pilot feels nicer on gear loops as it's less lumpy. While I found it certainly worked well, it just felt a little weird pushing up, as it's the opposite to a GriGri or an Eddy. Certainly a good suggestion, and the price they are at are very nice

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L MattClimb - on 12 Apr 2019
In reply to Dave Cundy:

It has been anodised to harden it, though I'm potentially going to throw a grivel carabiner on it due to the weird ACL design they went for

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Martin Bennett - on 12 Apr 2019
In reply to MattClimb:

I use a Click Up for wall and sport belaying and find it so re-assuring I don't feel happy if my belayer isn't using one. Like you I like the BD Gridlock crab and always use it with conventional or guide belay plates. Your correct in thinking it's inappropriate for the Click Up though - I tried it but went back to the crab supplied with the Click Up which seems fine to me. A friend has suggested that the BD equivalent is better but I've yet to try it.

I dunno what The other respondent meant by using 2 hands to release it. For lowering once it's "clicked up" you simply grip it firmly and rotate it a few degrees to an appropriate angle and lower away. To release it once partner is on the ground (or climbing again after resting on rope) just push it up in the direction of the active rope - one hand is all that's needed.

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L MattClimb - on 12 Apr 2019
In reply to girlymonkey:

how is the grippiness when leading? Was talking to someone who tested the pilot for one session, and he said it grabbed the rope a lot while paying out.

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girlymonkey - on 12 Apr 2019
In reply to MattClimb:

I have been using it on a high ropes course which I have been working on, so not lead as such. I do have to pay out a little as they jump and it's great for that, but can't say for full lead. I have had the click up be grabby on lead though, and my feeling from the pilot is that it should be less so. 

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rgold - on 13 Apr 2019
In reply to Martin Bennett:

> I dunno what The other respondent meant by using 2 hands to release it. For lowering once it's "clicked up" you simply grip it firmly and rotate it a few degrees to an appropriate angle and lower away. To release it once partner is on the ground (or climbing again after resting on rope) just push it up in the direction of the active rope - one hand is all that's needed.

If you read my follow-up post, you will see it is about neither of these two situations.

It sounds as if most folks are using these devices in the gym.  I use mine for multipitch trad climbing with half ropes, and the situations that have to be dealt with might be a bit different.

Post edited at 05:15
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gilesf - on 13 Apr 2019
In reply to rgold:

I don't go to a gym but I use my click up at a climbing wall.

Whatever style of climbing you're doing, more than a couple of people here are struggling to understand why you would need to use two hands on the click up to release it, I can only imagine you're doing something wrong, or using it incorrectly.

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GridNorth - on 13 Apr 2019
In reply to MattClimb:

I like the Click Up but it does seem to have a tendency to twist the ropes more than other devices. Even when I follow the instructions  to the letter it does not seem to help and it's not always possible to keep the rope between your feet and pay out in a straight line.

Al

Post edited at 10:57
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HansStuttgart - on 13 Apr 2019
In reply to GridNorth:

cons:

1. Hard to do a partnercheck correctly. Is is not easy to see whether the rope is in properly and whether the clickup is right-side up. They should paint one side green and the other red....

2. Dependence on specific carabiner.

3. Lots of friction with older, stiffer ropes.

Pros:

belaying action like an ATC.

I recommend the smart over the clickup.

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GridNorth - on 13 Apr 2019
In reply to HansStuttgart:

I wore out a Smart and at the time I liked it a lot although it doesn't hang nicely on a harness.  The thumb shape once caught on another climber and I dragged her half way across the climbing wall floor

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rgold - on 13 Apr 2019
In reply to gilesf:

> I don't go to a gym but I use my click up at a climbing wall.

> Whatever style of climbing you're doing, more than a couple of people here are struggling to understand why you would need to use two hands on the click up to release it, I can only imagine you're doing something wrong, or using it incorrectly.


As established by your incomplete listing of occasions unlock the device, neither of you seem to have yet encountered the range of situations that can arise when doing multipitch climbs with half ropes (so Alpine Up rather than Click Up, but the operating principles are identical), and seem to think that lowering is the only time the brake lock has to be released.

Post edited at 16:38
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beardy mike - on 13 Apr 2019
In reply to MattClimb:

I'm with RGold on this one. I also have the Alpine up and use it for everything, sport, alpine, trad, ice climbing. Once you're use to belaying with it (which I found took maybe a day) I find it intuitive and easy to use. I don't really like smart style devices purely because I don't like having my hand tied to the device. My main criticism is that when ropes are wet or iced they are a pain to feed into the device at the top of a pitch to start belaying as you have to fight the ice on the ropes and your grip never seems enough with gloves on to get the buggers through. Still my prefered assisted lock device although I've not tried the new grigri. You definitely need to use the supplied biner for the Alpine up as others are just the wrong shape to work...

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rgold - on 14 Apr 2019
In reply to rgold:

An addendum to my previous reply.  It isn't clear whether the issue is the occasional need to release a locked-up device,---which is surely obvious---or whether the head-scratching is about my recommendation to use both hands rather than just the left hand as CT recommends in their official video. 

I find the two-handed approach is much faster and easier with the Alpine up, which is locked up on two ropes and needs a decent shove to free it.  Maybe the one-handed release is ok with the Click Up, which is the device mentioned in the thread, but I think the two-handed shove is still going to be quicker, something a short-roped leader is going to appreciate.  

The two videos I've seen on the internet that illustrate releasing the Click Up both assume there is no rope tension.  But if the leader has grabbed an armful of rope for clipping and the belayer lets the device lock, there is now a tug-of-war going on and the rope going to the leader is not slack as in the videos.  In this case, I think the two-handed shove works best.

In case the Alpine Up is used for abseiling and you land at the stance with ropes still under tension because of rope stretch, the two-handed shove is far better than struggling with just the left hand.

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Mark Stevenson - on 14 Apr 2019
In reply to MattClimb:

Just for some balance...

I was belayed with one when working routes (and dogging them really badly) at the  Chee Dale Lower last Summer. In that scenario, it was noticeably poorer than compared with a Gri-Gri.

For proper sport climbing (i.e. hard redpointing with lots of working moves followed by attempts with fast clips and potentially big falls) nothing really comes close to a Gri-Gri. So my view remains that all these alternative single rope belay devices are slightly pointless. If you want a device that autolocks, buy a Gri-Gri. If you don't really need one, just use a normal belay plate.

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Robert Durran - on 14 Apr 2019
In reply to Mark Stevenson:

> Just for some balance...

> So my view remains that all these alternative single rope belay devices are slightly pointless. If you want a device that autolocks, buy a Gri-Gri. If you don't really need one, just use a normal belay plate.

If you are used to a Gri-Gri it is no doubt excellent, but if you are used to a normal device it is a total nightmare whereas a Click-Up is truly brilliant.

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Neil Williams - on 14 Apr 2019
In reply to Robert Durran:

The Grigri + solves the main issue with it for novice users, namely that panicking and pulling the handle hard on lowering results in the climber decking.  I understand another new one is on the way, though I don't believe it will have this safety feature, sadly.

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jimtitt - on 14 Apr 2019
In reply to Robert Durran:

> If you are used to a Gri-Gri it is no doubt excellent, but if you are used to a normal device it is a total nightmare whereas a Click-Up is truly brilliant.


However if you master the use of all the available devices the Grigri is undoubtably better. Mark has it right.

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Robert Durran - on 14 Apr 2019
In reply to jimtitt:

> However if you master the use of all the available devices the Grigri is undoubtably better. 

Maybe, but I'd rather be master of one type than potentially fatally confused by two!

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rgold - on 14 Apr 2019
In reply to Robert Durran:

And the Alpine Up is the best assisted braking device for half ropes.

Post edited at 18:15
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afx22 - on 14 Apr 2019
In reply to MattClimb:

Chipping in, I was lent a Gri Gri Plus.  I practiced and practiced at home, then I tried to use it at an indoor wall, twice, and found it a royal pain the butt.  I was unable to get the hang of paying out rope as quickly as I needed and it would continually lock up, preventing the climber from climbing.  I appreciate there’s a skill involved that I lack.

The first time, I reverted to a DMM Bug.  The second time I used my mate’s Alpine Up.  Having not used the latter before, I found it super intuitive for paying out.   Unlocking it, after the leader had fallen, took a couple of goes but once I’d learnt to wiggle it correctly, it was easy.

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Tom Ripley - on 14 Apr 2019
In reply to Robert Durran:

> If you are used to a Gri-Gri it is no doubt excellent, but if you are used to a normal device it is a total nightmare whereas a Click-Up is truly brilliant.

I’m amazed that a climber of your experience and ability can’t get their head around something as simple as a Grigri. 

Next you'll be telling me you never bothered to learn a bowline, because you might tie a figure of eight wrong. 

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icnoble on 14 Apr 2019
In reply to MattClimb:

We used the click up since they came out but changed to the Edelrid Jul 2 which we prefer. 

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Robert Durran - on 15 Apr 2019
In reply to Tom Ripley:

> I’m amazed that a climber of your experience and ability can’t get their head around something as simple as a Grigri. 

I probably could if I really, really tried, but I just don't see any point in doing so when something as good as a Click-Up is available. 

> Next you'll be telling me you never bothered to learn a bowline, because you might tie a figure of eight wrong. 

More that I might tie a bowline wrong. Just like I'd probably get. Gri-Gri wrong; I don't think I'd ever forget how to tie a figure of eight or how to use a normal belay device.

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beardy mike - on 15 Apr 2019
In reply to Tom Ripley:

> I’m amazed that a climber of your experience and ability can’t get their head around something as simple as a Grigri. 

This is a totally spurious argument. A grigri is undeniably different to use than a tuber and yes when you are used to it, is most likely the single best assisted device on the market. But it doesnt handle like a tuber, do double ropes or have the versatility of the alpine up. Different tools for different jobs innit. If you are used to a tuber and use one most of the time, why bother changing the way you belay just so you can experience a grigri?

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In reply to MattClimb:

Hi Matt

We did a dedicated review of the Click Up back in 2013 - https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/climbing/belays/the_click-up_belay_device-4710

It also featured in our group test in 2017 where we gave it best in test - https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/climbing/belays/assisted_braking_belay_devices-9402

We have recently got the Click Up + and I have reviewed that which will be published shortly. However (spoiler alert) I agree with Chris and would stick with the Click Up as your potential choice.

The Gri-gri verses Click Up arguments are a bit like Apple OS verses Windows - it all depends what you are used to. I maintain strongly that for people who have never used an assisted braking belay device then the Click Up is easier to master than a Gri-gri if you are used to a conventional Tuber/ATC type belay action. It is also perfect for working sport routes and, for me, much better than a Gri-gri, which illustrates the Apple/Windows point again.

Someone said that it wasn't good for abseiling. It is really not supposed to be used for abseiling at all. We gave them this feedback in 2013 and I think it has been taken on board - the device simply becomes too hot . The Alpine Up has a handle and therefore doesn't suffer from the same problem. Then Click Up + has more plastic therefore may not become as hot however I still wouldn't recommend it for abseiling.

I noticed another comment about the anodising of the crab - this is a weak point. The anodised layer of the supplied crab does wear out and leave slightly sharp edges. This means it needs replacing much sooner than the device itself. You can use other-brand replacements but they will usually not be precisely the same diameter which leads to some slippage so is not to be recommended (although I have done it - lots). We have fed back to CT that they really need to supply it with a more wear-resistant crab.

The twisting rope issue does occur however it is mostly connected to the way you hold the device when lowering. If you line it up in a straight line with the rope going in and out then you can minimise the twisting.

Alan

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L Wiley Coyote2 - on 15 Apr 2019
In reply to MattClimb:

I've used all sorts of devices down the years from the original Sticht plate through various ATC-style devices to GriGris and have to say that for single rope climbing the Click Up is now my absolute favourite. I  bought a Click up for  Mrs C, who is definitely not technically-minded and who I did not trust to use a GriGri without yanking back on the brake lever and dropping me. She took to the Click Up very easily and when I tried it I was amazed how easy it was to use and now never use anything else for sport. I'm not even sure where my GriGri is these days. I still use the ATC for twin rope trad as the Alpine Up seemed a bit clunky. I tried the Click Up2 when a mate got one but have to say I did not find it an improvement.

Post edited at 23:53
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