/ Threading skyhooks/grappling hooks

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NottsRich on 05 Jan 2013
How do you thread Petzl skyhooks and a BD grappling hooks that don't have slings on them already?

With the skyhooks I've seen 2 common methods (note where the sewn joint is and it's implication on if the tape hangs between rock and shank, or outside the shank.) Which is better, and why?

With the BD grappling hook I've struggling to find any information at all. What methods are recommended? I'm talking in terms of which order you thread the holes, where the knot goes, and if you wrap around the shank or not, as in this photo:

Or only use one hole as in this photo:

As I'll be threading them with cord myself I'd like recommendations and tips that aren't for sewn slings please! Cheers.
uncontrollable - on 05 Jan 2013
In reply to NottsRich:

You want the hooks to be able to align as close as possible with the rock for stable placemenst so consider using flat tape and I would go for the threading option shown in the Needlesport link

for longwinded discussions on the subject check the american bigwall forums
The Ex-Engineer - on 05 Jan 2013
In reply to NottsRich: I've seen numerous different methods and I don't think it really matters. However, I do think using cord is both a poor and pointless idea - tape is simple and proven over decades.

My Talon and Cliffhanger are threaded very simply with short loops with an overhand knot jamming in the hole (as per this photo from Google image search )

My Grappling Hook is tied with short loops tied with water knots as shown in with both strands of the loop exiting from the 'inside' of the hook.

NottsRich on 05 Jan 2013
In reply to uncontrollable: Thanks for the tip. Out of interest, why the Needlesport method?
NottsRich on 05 Jan 2013
In reply to The Ex-Engineer: Why is cord a pointless idea? My knowledge of tying tape is that it's more prone to slipping (Dyneema aside). I feel more comfortable with a double fishermans on cord than with any tape knot.

Also, why the difference in tape attachment between the Cliffhanger and the Grappling Hook? I like the overhand knot jammed in the hole, it seems quit reassuring. Why does the Grappling Hook not use the same method?

Lastly, the tales on those overhands look veeery short to me. Are they suitable? The tales on the waterknots look better!
The Ex-Engineer - on 06 Jan 2013
In reply to NottsRich: I'm certainly no expert, the sum total of my hooking experience on the sharp end is three moves on a C2 pitch in the valley about six years ago.

When I acquired some hooks myself a couple of years ago I read a bit online and had a play with a few different methods of threading them. The methods I ended up with made the most sense at the time and seemed to be what some fairly hardcore aid climbers did. IIRC when using both holes, the tape (BD Supertape) seemed to sit better with the grappling hook than the cliffhanger.

The photos aren't mine, just ones found from Google image search. My tails are probably not much longer.

As previously mentioned I don't think it matters greatly but if you do want more detailed discussions I'd echo the recommendation to head to US aid climbing forums. Otherwise, have a play and see what you think.

Tape works and ignoring what hundreds of aid climbers with many decades of experience all do seems pretty pointless to me.
Hannes on 06 Jan 2013
In reply to NottsRich: I used an old furry nylon BD nylon sling to thread my BD talons. I first tied a loop with the opening of about the size of my thumb using a normal tape knot. Then I took the single long piece of sling and tied an overhand knot after threading it through the hole putting the knot on the backside if you will (the side away from the hook). I thought it was the neatest option as it made the amount of tape running between the body of the hook smaller so hopefully had less chance of disturbing it.

If this doesn't make any sense let me know and I'll fish one out and take a photo of it.
NottsRich on 07 Jan 2013
In reply to Hannes: Hi Hannes, I think that makes sense, but would appreciate a photo if you do get a spare minute. Also, thanks for the tip about furry nylon slings. I assume flat tape rather than tubular tape is best? Thanks.

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