In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
> (In reply to NYork) GOt to disagree with you, in part.
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> I do hope that you only own steel ex army karabiners and a whillans harness, if not then all you spout is bull!
Many thanks for your reply which simply confirms my earlier point on a number of issues.
I may be making an assumption, but I suspect you have an active interest in gear. Now taking that on board.
You ask how many people would be operating in the E grades if it was not for the "new gear".
1) Grades are an abstract notion of our making, the rock does not have any concept of what E5 is, E5 is our interpretation of how differcult the climb is.Ultimately the grade of a route is a simple indicator of how many people can do it.
2) If the advances in gear have allowed an increase in the number of people operating in the E grades I doubt if this can be seen as a real increase in climbing standards because the increased activity levels tend to be restricted to the well protected climbs. The gritstone edges see queues (and arguments) for the well protected crack climbs but you don't see many scuffles from would be leaders and the top ropers on the various routes on Froggatts Great Slab.
Climbing Elder Crack with above the head protection for the full route does not make you on par with Joe Brown nor will it help you lead an unprotected E2.
The climbing population may be greater now than thirty years ago, the number of people owning gear and claiming to be climbers certainly is higher. But I doubt if the percentages of climbers operating at the various levels has changed much in the last twenty years. There may be more people at the very cutting edge of the game but I believe that is down to two things a) more climbers and 1% of a big number is bigger than 1% of a small number and b) improved fitness arising from training ( including climbing walls) and my original list of vision etc.
With regard to your informed comments regarding my kit.
Given your fixation with brands, you seem to have concentrated on the glossy tags and ignored that boring attachment spelling out the life expectancy of the product.
I can't remember if my 1972 whillians harness had any guidance about life expectancy, but it did not matter it wore out. Those labels giving guidance on product life span are a safety net to avoid liigation for those of us lacking common sense and sound judgement
And alas I no longer have any stubias,hiatts or cassin krabs on the rack, I don't know about you but I tend to leave the older gear behind when bailing out because we did not have the benefit of Rockfax to reclaim abandoned gear left in retreat.
Yes I still have a Moac on the rack, albeit rethreaded, again that product life expectancy thing.
Now there would be a brand for sad old gits like me, "Retro Replicas", Moac Nuts, original EB,s Troll Mk 2 harnesses, Orange Whillians sacks and REAL CLIMBING MAGS
To sum up, I always thought style was something to do with how you climbed, I suspect that to some other people style is to do with what brands you wear when you go climbing.
And quite frankly I wouldn't swap places for all the taped
goretex jackets in the Outside clearance sale.