UKC

Waterproof fabric other than goretex

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 David Cowley 27 May 2021

Down to my ME Lhotse as my only shell and was wanting something more lightweight for summmer walking and cragging. Been looking at ME Garwhal which I can pick up for £142 never had any experience of paclite but wondering what other fabric is like ie drylite, pertex sheild etc. Thinking it may be a bit more breathable as I'm quite sweaty but not sure on waterproofness 

Any experience and advice on other fabrics appreciated 

In reply to David Cowley:

I’m a bit out of date on these things, but paclite is a goretex product with a lighter face fabric. Goretex Pro claims to be about 40% more breathable than paclite, however they seem to have the same rating for waterproofness.

My current walking jacket is Goretex Active, which is paclite weight with breathability rated the same a Pro. 

 sjminfife 27 May 2021
In reply to David Cowley:

I like Ventile which is a bit left field. I do find it is waterproof and comfortable.

Steve

 JimbotheScot 27 May 2021
 bouldery bits 27 May 2021
In reply to JimbotheScot:

My personal experience of eVent is that I found it about as effective as wearing a jacket made of plastic, single-use forks. 

Others have had different experiences though.

I have positive experience of Pertex Shield+ as a lighter waterproof fabric. I really rate my Montane Atomic. 

Post edited at 18:18
 SFM 27 May 2021
In reply to David Cowley:

I’ve found Pertex Shield to both effective and comfortable. Not sure yet about durability as on a lightweight running jacket. 
Currently eyeing up a Patagonia Torrentshell as a replacement for an ageing (and shite) Event jacket. 

 DaveHK 27 May 2021
In reply to sjminfife:

> I like Ventile which is a bit left field. I do find it is waterproof and comfortable.

> Steve

Not exactly lightweight though.

 LastBoyScout 27 May 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

I've got a pair of eVent gloves and they're pretty good, but not as breathable as my GoreTex ones.

 VictorM 28 May 2021
In reply to DaveHK:

> Not exactly lightweight though.

Also, not technically waterproof unless you go for the heavyweight double layer jackets. I love single layer Ventile/Etaproof for durable and do it all windlayers but I would never wear it as a rainshell.

There's a lot of good fabrics on the market nowadays. My advice would be to have a look into membranes that are hydrophilic instead of microporous/hydrophobic. This increases breathability, and they are generally also more stretchy than classic PTFE membranes such as GTX. On the upside, generally they are also more recyclable because the vast majority of them are made from monomaterials. On the 'downside', they are generally coated with PFC-free DWR's and therefore less water-repellent. 

I have good experiences with Fjällräven Eco-Shell, but other examples are TNF's Futurelight, Mammut Drytech, etc. 

 Forest Dump 28 May 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

I love my bombproof Montane eVent!

In reply to sjminfife:

> I like Ventile which is a bit left field. I do find it is waterproof and comfortable.

> Steve

I used to have a ventile jacket which I used for cycling. Very rugged (survived a heavy fallon my shoulder) but rather heavy and while it didn't leak exactly, it used to get wet, inside and out, in persistant rain and take a long time to dry once it was wet.

 GCO 28 May 2021
In reply to David Cowley:

I have a ME Zeno for lightweight use and a Lhotse for heavier duty. I like the Zeno, which has lit zips too so can be vented easily. I can’t recall being in a really heavy downpour with it though. 

 Hat Dude 28 May 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

> My personal experience of eVent is that I found it about as effective as wearing a jacket made of plastic, single-use forks. 

> Others have had different experiences though.

Me for one, absolutely no complaints about the eVent jacket that I've used for 5 years

In reply to David Cowley:

Not strictly waterproof, but feels dry, if you know what I mean: buffalo worn next to skin (no baselayers). Brilliant and cheaper and more durable than fancy gore Tex.

 DaveHK 28 May 2021
In reply to sharpendadventures:

> Not strictly waterproof, but feels dry, if you know what I mean: buffalo worn next to skin (no baselayers). Brilliant and cheaper and more durable than fancy gore Tex.

This is a classic 'what I have/like' rather than what was asked for recommendation! 

I've tried it BTW and it's horrible and clammy IMO.

 Gordonbp 28 May 2021
In reply to DaveHK:

And takes years to dry.....

 abr1966 28 May 2021
In reply to David Cowley:

I had a Berghaus Paclite smock I used for many years....very good bit of kit, especially if we'll maintained...

eVent......only had it once on a Rab jacket....didn't rate it at all and have stuck with goretex ever since!

 sjminfife 28 May 2021
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

Thanks. My double layer was good until I lay in oil wearing it and then after cleaning it would leak a bit.

 Trangia 28 May 2021
In reply to David Cowley:

The Paramo jacket's material is very good, and in my experience better than Gortex. So long as you clean and proof it regularly it really is waterproof, lightweight and very breathable. I have been using Paramo jackets now for the last decade, and wouldn't go back to Gortex

In reply to sharpendadventures:

As a big Buffalo fan it pains me to disagree with your recommendation. Buffalo is fantastic......... in winter. Must be near to freezing before I even contemplate mine. I don't find it clammy if worn next to the skin as designed and in my opinion it does dry quickly but no way for summer use.

Good luck to the OP. I hate Goretex and have tried Triplepoint Ceramic, Event, Paramo and currently have a Rab Neoshell. Get wet in all of them but I do sweat a lot.

Paramo was the worst by far as soaked through to the skin and the best waterproof I have is my very simple discontinued Mountain Bike Jacket made by Pace using Event. 

For summer use I would emphasise light weight and breathability so wish the OP well in his quest.

Post edited at 18:41
 wercat 28 May 2021
In reply to David Cowley:

in the 90s I used Craghoppers jackets with Sympatex as I coudn't bear the creakiness of Goretex stuff.  They were pretty good.  My favourite in very harsh winter conditions is ventile as the more icy it gets the more windproof and it isn't creaky like Goretex shells.

 David Cowley 28 May 2021
In reply to Prof. Outdoors:

Thanks. I too sweat a lot which led me to think about rab kinetec for breathability and comfort. How it will perform in heavy rain with a heavy sack on could be an issue with only HH of 10,000 but probably be just as wet with condensation in a HH 30,000. Also been reading about montane paclite plus being quite breathable for a 2 layer jacket

I'm fully aware I'm going to be damp in rain no matter what so maybe I should just get what will feel the least clammy or only go out in dry weather. 😁

It's re assuring to hear plenty of people have similar issues and it's not just me

Thanks all for the sharing your experiences 

In reply to David Cowley:

Try an omm Kamleika. I've got a smock I bought 2nd hand in eBay and I really rate it.

In reply to DaveHK:

He asked for a waterproof. Though not technically a waterproof, people wear them for the same reason, to stay dry and comfortable in wet weather, so why don't you get off your high horse, arschloch. I've found it to be amazingly comfortable and warm in weather that would soak you to the skin with even the best waterproof fabric. Pros and cons.

Post edited at 23:00
In reply to sharpendadventures:

A full on waterproof will ensure you are not "soaked to the skin" no matter how much it's raining. My old Goretex Pro does this, it just doesn't leak, period, and it does not tend to wet out and sweat me either. I can't remember what my fancy new Rab uses, Pertex Shield maybe? It's lovely snd stretchy... and gets completely drenched in minutes.

The issue with Buffalo is actually what you already mentioned: it keeps you warm. It does not cover the same role in layering as a waterproof, it covers multiple roles. I cannot speak for the OP but that makes it useless for me because my body runs *super* hot when doing exercise, any form of insulation that is intrinsic to my shell layer rather than removable is *very* unwelcome.

 DaveHK 31 May 2021
In reply to sharpendadventures:

> He asked for a waterproof. 

Instead of chucking insults about you'd have done better to read the OP.

He asked for a lightweight waterproof for summer walking and cragging. Good luck making the case for buffalo for those activities! 

Post edited at 21:39
 VictorM 01 Jun 2021
In reply to Alkis:

> A full on waterproof will ensure you are not "soaked to the skin" no matter how much it's raining. My old Goretex Pro does this, it just doesn't leak, period, and it does not tend to wet out and sweat me either. I can't remember what my fancy new Rab uses, Pertex Shield maybe? It's lovely snd stretchy... and gets completely drenched in minutes.

You will start to see this with Gore-Tex in the next couple of years as well. As the industry is moving away from PFC DWR's it's getting harder to make polyamide/polyester fabrics truly water-repellent. Good for nature, not so great for us humans but then again I think it's a fair exchange. 

In reply to VictorM:

That's why I'm not in a hurry to replace my 12 year old Gore-Tex Pro really.

In reply to sharpendadventures:

> Not strictly waterproof, but feels dry, if you know what I mean: buffalo worn next to skin (no baselayers). Brilliant and cheaper and more durable than fancy gore Tex.


...as long as you're active and creating enough heat to make it 'work'. Sit still for a length of time in a breeze with it wet and it's suddenly not much fun at all due to it becoming a very effective evaporation fridge. Also too hot in summer (which is always my problem with waterproofs - they might keep the rain off, but you just get soaked in sweat instead).

 VictorM 01 Jun 2021
In reply to Alkis:

> That's why I'm not in a hurry to replace my 12 year old Gore-Tex Pro really.

And fair enough really, using what you have instead of buying new shiny things is the most environmentally friendly thing you can do.

Now only to heed my own advice... :/

In reply to David Cowley:

My dad has the alpkit argonaut. 350g. £90.

I bought it for him on a trip to lakeland and he said it performed really well - we were inside a cloud a lot of the days which is a really good test of breathability. Hydrostatic head is 10k (a lot of shells can be rated at twice that) but it seemed to shed water well in a downpour.

Others may be able to give a more comprehensive review about what it’s like when no longer brand new.

Post edited at 08:32
 oceannash909 04 Jun 2021
In reply to David Cowley:

I have a montane Alpine shift jacket, Its very lightweight but still burely enough for scrambling and climbing. I went through the same situation and thought process as you where I have a Mammut Nordwand pro jacket, however found it way to heavy for ultra running, so I got an Alpine shift, however I didn't want an ultra light running jacket like the montane podium as I think it would get destroyed when hiking and climbing. The fabric on the Alpine Shift is burely but light, it's comfy even next to skin, and they use Montane's own diamond light pro membrane. Definitely recommend


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