UKC

Hi all,

First time posting but been lurking for quite some time here along with UKC.

I'm planning to do Cadair Idris from Minfford on Friday and can see a fair amount of snow forecast for the summit (albeit not down in the valley) according to the Met Office.

Is it a crampons and ice axe situation does any know please or just decent boots? 

Cheers

I see ive been downvoted already.

Might be a stupid question and if it is i apologise for that but rather a stupid question than a rescue due to lack of preparation.... 

Impossible to say for certain.  Most times, new snow on bare ground is soft and crampons are more of a trip hazard than a help.  Walking poles are probably your best aid.  There is always a chance, though, that there is underlying ice and crampons would be beneficial. 

If you have crampons, why not carry them ?  If not, then just be careful and be prepared to bail out if there is any sign of ice.

Cheers Graham, ill take them with me then. 

Freezing level could be a good indicator of whether snow will be hard or mushy:

https://www.mwis.org.uk/forecasts/english-and-welsh/snowdonia-national-park

Otherwise, sometimes you can't beat a good old fashioned visual assessment when you arrive.

No snow, not even a flake, on Cadair today. Some snow showers forecast for late tomorrow, on Thursday and on Friday but the summit temperatures are hovering around freezing or just above. This has been the mildest winter I can remember in southern Snowdonia - I can almost count on one hand the number of snowy days I've had on Cadair. I've taken little spikies a couple of times but never used them this winter. 

ps. but you never know... 😀

pps. I'll update you on Thursday.

I'm sure Myfyr will correct me but I can't really think where on Cadair crampons would ever be 'necessary' - the normal path is nowhere very steep, is it? 

There again if you've got 'em, no harm taking 'em. (Though they are always a trip hazard until you get used to them, and even then.)

Agree Rob. It's got to be pretty "full on" to need pointy things on the main paths.

Thanks for the insights everyone. I do have crampons but relatively little experience with them although i have been a walker for many years. Its really helpful to have an insight into the conditions and path before getting there too as I haven't been to that area before. 

When I was a young lad (no, not one of those stories about walking barefoot carrying a sack of coal to school) we used to take a walking axe in case of snow (Scotland not Cadair Idris) but if we thought we'd need crampons we'd turn back, or not have gone. Then the idea was walking axe first, crampons second.

Maybe the little spike version changes that nowadays, but the point is if you need crampons should you have a walking axe to arrest with? Dunno, just throwing it out there for completeness...

I would say if you don’t know where to wear crampons, you shouldn’t be using them

Look at the weather conditions for past, present and future then using a map put the two together to form an understanding of potential issues for that area. It advantageous to get local knowledge as well, but I would never take someone else’s opinion alone when deciding on what kit to pack or not pack. Crampons are no use without an axe, but an axe is useful without crampons.

Personally when walking I'd think crampons before axe.  It's much harder to put crampons on if things turn icy than it is to stop and get an axe out.  Also for normal walking routes, I find walking poles more useful.

No snow on Cadair Idris now. A few light showers forecast overnight and the temperature just below freezing - just as it's been all winter long. Very nice and sunny this evening but with a cold wind. Looking a decent day tomorrow with showers later on. Enjoy.👍

Thanks a lot for that Myfyr

I have to say what a great community there is on here too. 

I think it still holds true now too, if it were to be an one-or-other choice? Wielded with a suitable degree of competency, an axe will offer a solution to every snow or ice-related problem you might encounter, whereas crampons will only offer solutions to a limited subset of those problems. Of course, the sensible and pragmatic solution is to take both but I do wonder if the erosion of the 'traditional' skills in the era of modern crampons and tools becomes problematic when not faced with ideal scenarios for whatever reason?

I can only speculate - the modern crampon obviously predates us all by generations!

One might argue that, for those of us not fortunate enough to have been born with such instinctive and acute hill sense, the main path up Cadair Idris is the perfect place to learn safely when crampons are and aren't needed, and asking on a knowledgeable online forum about likely ground conditions is a healthy amount of caution if one isn't experienced enough to translate a weather forecast into likely ground conditions.

100%. Ignore the naysayers - they don't appreciate that they're among a very rare few that are born blessed with such an instinctive connection with the mountain terrain. Or, rather, they're so old that they've forgotten that it didn't come naturally to them in the beginning either.

Thankfully, they are a very rare few. These forums are full of brilliant, thoughtful and experienced advice if you learn to tune those select few out.

I agree that traditional walking axe skills like step cutting are very useful to practice, but I think the main newish development is that many people carry walking poles these days. If you're not on steep ground but you're slipping every few steps because the ground is icy then crampons plus walking poles is a great combination and would actually be pretty perfect for most of the minffordd path up cader on the rare occasions when it's under frozen snow. As the ground gets steeper put one pole away and get out the axe, as it gets steeper still put the other pole away.