UKC

Probably me being a bit dim however I did search the forums and couldn't see much on the topic. 

My partner and I did a walk using the free Viewranger app, and quite like the idea of having a community of people submitting walks. We've also got the free OS Maps app however, and this seems to suggest you can do the same on it.

As the full subscription of both are priced the same, and seem to give access to both Landranger and Explorer maps, is there a difference? One thing I found on Viewranger is it didn't actually say where you were, however not being a total idiot with navigation it wasn't the biggest of worry. 

If anyone has experience of both and has a preference..which one? and why? 

Cheers. 

In reply to AndyMusgrove:

Wondering the same. Dont beat yourself up

In reply to AndyMusgrove: I’ve used both and have found the OS maps app interface more user-friendly (but by no means perfect!). I use it for walking/running/biking and whilst I still carry map/compass if in potentially risky, unfamiliar situations/places I pretty much rely on it for nav. (I always carry a spare power pack for phone in such situations)... The paid subscriber version seems to do all I need ...

Essentially, however, both apps (and others) essentially do the same thing ...

In reply to AndyMusgrove:

Hi, I have used both for a couple of years (on Android as I know this can make a difference).  I don’t really use the suggested walk facility on either of them so can’t really comment on that.  In terms of the route planning facility I would probably prefer the os maps, but of course you can upload gpx files to either so you are not restricted.

in terms of use on the hill I prefer the ViewRanger app, I find it less temperamental than the os (often have to restart to get it working).  Also it has a some features I like, such as it automatically caches maps for you rather than having to specifically download and save an area for offline use.  Also the curser is quite good to get spot heights if things etc.  Both give you a live position, just be careful of this as it can be slow to update and of course gps can be funny in complex terrain.

hope that helps.  I am sure others will highlight little differences too!

oli

In reply to AndyMusgrove:

That seems a bit odd.  Mine definitely does.  Is the GPS on the phone switched on and does the app have permission to use it?  On the map screen there's a button at the bottom between the "+" and the "-" that centres the view on your current position.

The Viewranger app is much better than the OS's own app imo.  More stable and reliable, easier to use and the Open Street Map derived layers (Open Cycle Map, 'Viewranger Landscape', etc.) often show paths that aren't visible on the OS map.

However for printing a paper map at home the OS website is better than Viewranger.  (It allows you to print 1:25k or 1:50k maps to scale on A4 or A5 paper.)

In reply to AndyMusgrove:Haha. Two replies and two different views 👍🤭

You wouldn’t expect anything else though, would you, on UKC 😉

In reply to stevewilson66:

Thanks for the replies all. I had a feeling they were both filling the same gap which this seems to confirm. As has been suggested, this is only really for bumbling around easier terrain, and as a backup up to the faithful map and compass when further afield, so looks like either will be fine.  

In reply to AndyMusgrove:

Vieranger is also very useful if you go outside UK ( when er are allowed to).  You can buy or subscribe to eg France's ISGN maps.  Or, if you dont want to spend money the free openstreet maps are often pretty good.  And all can be downloaded inadvance so you are not reliant on signal.  

As others have pointed out, you just need to turn on the GPS in settings to see where you are. 

In reply to Slarti B:

Rumour has it that there are different "location sensitivity" settings on some phones which will affect the accuracy and speed of its GPS capability. Is this the case? 

In reply to AndyMusgrove:

If you find the apps much of a muchness (particularly as you enjoy navigating 'by hand' with a paper map & compass), you're probably better off sticking with the OS.  The subscription allows you to print and unlimited number of your own custom OS maps to scale off their website.

A4 maps printed on waterproof paper are brilliant for short routes that will fit on them.  (Assuming you manage to hang on to them on a windy day.)  I often print one to just carry in my hand and use with an orienteer's thumb compass when I'm exploring a new route for a run.

(This is the paper I mean - there are different versions for inkjet or laser printers: https://www.memory-map.co.uk/christmas-gift-ideas/toughprint-waterproof-pap... )

I have an A3 printer and laminator too, and have built up a fair stock of laminated A3 OS maps to use on the front deck of my sea kayak instead of messing about with a map case - that alone is well worth the price of the subscription for me.

In reply to AndyMusgrove:

I've been contemplating subscribing to the OS maps for ViewRanger this coming year, I thought it was quite good value (compared to the cost of a single paper map). But then a friend I go hiking with asked "What is better about the OS maps though?", and I wasn't sure of the answer really! What do people think?

I know on ViewRanger you have contour lines, water courses, paths, roads etc., peaks. What's extra with the OS maps that is useful? This feels weird to ask as I've always seen OS maps as the Holy Grail of maps but when I actually think about it I don't know why they are better than the free ViewRanger ones.

PS to reiterate to the OP as someone else said, you can definitely get your location from ViewRanger and it's the button at the bottom in the centre. There are a few settings in the settings for what that button does, I think you can press it a few times and it defines whether the map turns as you turn or stays static regardless of your orientation.

Thanks

In reply to AndyMusgrove:

A couple more differences in addition to the above.

On OS maps, when planning a route on a PC, the route 'snaps' to tracks and paths, making route creation must faster. Viewranger doesn't.

You can view the Viewranger map on an Apple watch, so you can see where you are on the map on your watch. Besides being simpler in bad weather and keeping your phone dry, you don't look like a tw*t that's glued to their phone while doing the Cuillin Ridge.

In reply to AndyMusgrove:

It would also be worthwhile considering Memory Map. You purchase the digital maps and can download it to three devices. It gives you position and uses surprisingly little battery with my phone on airplane mode. You can print pages to scale or otherwise. If you leave tracking on in the background you can save the track and share as a GPX file. It's worth keeping an eye out for deals on this system. I bought the 1:25k of the whole of the UK for £100 during the first lockdown. Adding that to the 1:50k version I've had for years on my phone I can zoom in from road atles to 1:50k to 1:25k. Gets lots of use.

In reply to AndyMusgrove:

I have both of these apps on my phone and I prefer the way the way the direction of travel arrow works on Viewranger much more than the little red triangle on the OS app.

In reply to AndyMusgrove:

After two years of OS App for iOS, I've changed my subscription to Viewranger.

Although the OS App has definitely improved since I started using it, there are still irritating problems. Too often I find the map greys out and fails to show the map, irrespective of signal and/or whether I downloaded the map in advance. Restarting the app tends to fix it.

So far for me, Viewranger seems more robust and I've had no maps fail. The downloaded maps never struggle to show. But like others have said, there's not much difference really.

In reply to Deleated bagger:

I share your enthusiasm for Memory-Map. I only have the 1:25k maps, but I have them on my phone, tablet and desktop - the latter two for planning and the former for in-the-field navigation. 

In reply to Fredt:

Reading your comment, I thought no one under the age of 60 thinks looking at a phone makes you look like a tw*t. Then I looked at your profile. Fair enough.

In reply to deepsoup:

I’ve never found a way to print from ViewRanger at all. Is there one?

Otherwise, I’ve found ViewRanger perfectly adequate. One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is that you can buy map ‘tiles’ in ViewRanger rather than have to subscribe, which personally I prefer. 

In reply to elliot.baker:

The OP is talking about taking out a subscription to get access to OS maps, either through the OS themselves or through Viewranger - so the same 'Landranger' 50k and 'Explorer' 25k OS maps in either case.

Except - weirdly - I noticed last year that the OS map viewable on the OS app was actually a slightly older version than the one on the OS website or the Viewranger app/website.  I've ditched the OS app since then as I was running out of storage space on my phone, so I'm not sure if that's still the case.  I only noticed because there are a couple of relatively new public rights of way not far from here that have only just appeared on the latest version of the OS map.  (Though they've existed on the ground for a few years now.)

Without the subscription the OS app/website just gives you access to a rather lacklustre 'standard' map, with a bit of added detail in the national parks.  The Viewranger 'standard' free map is based on the Open Street Map, and is definitely a bit more useful than that one.  It often shows paths that don't appear on the OS map, concessionary paths, paths across access land and others - but you have to be a bit careful with them because there's nothing to tell you whether they're a right of way or not.

The Open Street Map and several variants of it are free (as the name suggests it's a open-source kind of a thing).  You don't need Viewranger to see those. 
Eg:
https://www.openstreetmap.org
http://opencyclemap.org/

In reply to Bob Kemp:

If there's a way to print a useful plain map, I haven't found it either. 

If you plot or record a route you can print a kind of 'route card' for that, which includes a smallish map.  It's potentially a good way to share a route with friends, there's space to write directions, waypoints and wotnot, but it's not useful as a paper map in itself.

With the OS website maps I generally 'print' the map I want to a pdf.  It sometimes takes a bit of trial and error to get the area it covers just right, especially if a circular walk or whatever only just fits on.  Then I keep the pdf file after I've printed it on paper, then if the paper map gets wet or whatever it's very easy to just print another copy and I feel free to scribble notes directly onto the printed version, highlight a route etc.  (For sea-kayaking purposes I usually transfer a few details from the marine chart or the guide book onto the sea as well, lights, buoys, tidal flows etc..)

In reply to Fredt:

I don't think that's right, Viewranger also 'snaps' to paths.  In the top right corner of the map there are two drop-down boxes, the top one selects the map layer, the one below is labelled "Route Generation" and gives you the option to choose 'off', 'on foot', 'by bicycle' or 'by car'.

Unlike the OS's own website, that works everywhere on Viewranger.  With the OS it only works inside the national parks.

In reply to Le Sapeur:

You can certainly feel like a bit of a tw*t sometimes though, trying to use a touch-screen phone with wet hands in the rain.

In reply to Myfyr Tomos:

I am on Android.  I tend to go with the standard settings but I think you can change things like frequency of fix to reduce battery consumption.  

Note that it won't allow you to record a track if you are on power saving mode. 

In reply to AndyMusgrove:

I used OS Maps for a few years, then switched to Viewranger last year and wouldn't go back. Earlier this year they were bought out by OutdoorActive. I have been using that app all year, and it's fantastic. You also get Europe wide mapping included, not sure if that's of any use to you though.

OS Maps was always buggy and inconsistent to me, caught me out a couple of times too when my downloaded maps didn't work offline. Haven't faced any issues with either of the other two.

In reply to elliot.baker:

Apart from the general aesthetic, I think the OS maps are much more useful for planning routes and following descriptions of routes. They clearly show information such as access land boundaries, footpath / bridleway / byway designations, and lots of place names (eg names of individual farms) that don't show up on the viewranger map. Also the odd useful bit of information like parking areas. 

If you tried to plan a route using open street map or viewranger maps alone you'd probably end up trying to walk up a private drive and getting shouted at by a farmer in the first hour. 

Personally I tend to use a combination of viewranger and OS maps both on the viewranger app. I'll plan out where I want to go on the OS map, then check the viewranger map for more detail on potential paths I can follow over access land, as those maps do show a lot more paths than the os maps do.

I used to use the OS app a while ago, but it was just much more buggy than viewranger in general, and then they released an absolute howler of an update that made it basically unusable (and somehow resulted in the maps only displaying diagonally) so I switched.  

In reply to AukWalk:

With a subscription to Viewranger you're paying to access OS maps on Viewranger, not relying on Viewranger's own free relief or landscape maps.

In reply to deepsoup:

I stand corrected, many thanks. It seems to work OK, but the routes created still appear to be a series of straight bits, whereas OS follows the paths faithfully. I shall experiment further.

In reply to AndyMusgrove:

After much research and testing i like Locus

https://www.locusmap.eu/

It handles external maps (I load my own OS 1:25 of the whole uk ) And can cash OpenStreetMap for free. Which is user updated and has paths OS dose not always. Plus a good recording function for the push bike that i use in place of Strava now.

Backcountry navigator is average but has all the OS for free!

Lots of good info at:

http://www.cumbriasoaringclub.co.uk/kb/osm.php

In reply to AndyMusgrove:

For any printing problems, be it OS, MemoryMap or viewranger I just use "print screen". You can crop and resize if your not bothered about scale.

In reply to nathan79:

Exactly, but I think elliot was questioning whether they're was any point in buying that subscription to access OS maps given you can get free maps in viewranger. My thoughts are that while the free maps in viewranger are useful, I wouldn't want to rely on them alone.

In reply to AndyMusgrove:

I’ve recently switched from OSmaps app subscription to ViewRanger with OS maps subscription. Early days but ViewRanger seems far better with lots more features and less buggy. OS Maps app is more user friendly but probably only because it has less and hidden features. 

In reply to Bob Kemp:

I love Viewranger and just by map tiles without subscription.

In reply to blackmountainbiker:

What I do too. All my mapping use via Viewranger is with OS maps.

Can anyone advise on the age of the mapping data? I've noticed, on some trips, significant difference in forest cover and even the omission/inclusion of buildings. For example 'boat house' on Loch Builg. That's not been there for ages and even the foundations have largely been subsumed into the land. 

I noticed quite recently there are noticeable differences in contour spacing and crag definition -

O/S accurately highlighted the tightening of contours and crag illustration.  Whilst ViewRanger showed no change in contours and weak/poor crag definition.  I was forced to check it out when we nearly came unstuck using View Ranger.   Thank goodness it wasn't snow conditions.

I generally flick between the two now.

In reply to Bob Kemp:

Just do a screen shot and print it. I do this on both laptop and iPad. Its quick and straightforward. I then put it in a A4 clear plastic sleeve protector and sellotape the top so it's waterproof.

In reply to AndyMusgrove:

Much prefer the Viewranger app for use outside in a pinch (though I normally just use paper ones), prefer the OS site for plotting and printing maps to scale. On that basis, whether one is better than the other overall depends on what you value most.

In reply to blackmountainbiker:

I just downloaded on the strength of this - but it's only offering me annual or monthly subscription; no pay/tile.  How do I get that?

In reply to Removed UserBilberry:

Go to

https://my.viewranger.com/shop?locale=en

Credit Packs

Buy credit and then in Viewranger app you can buy tiles using the points from your credit pack

In reply to Removed UserBilberry:

This may not be exactly the same for a new user but what I do to buy more tiles is go to the map view (folded map icon) and touch on the ‘Maps Here’ double diamond icon in the top right. For me this screen says at the top  ‘Buy more tiles.’ You’ll get asked what scale you want, and then you can zoom in on the lap there. 

In reply to flour and Bob Kemp:

Sadly it seems it stopped on Christmas day:

https://outdooractive-uk.helpscoutdocs.com/article/74-faqs

Subscription only from here

In reply to Removed UserBilberry:

I’m still able to download map tiles but maybe it’s stopped for new users? Hard to tell from the FAQs. 
 

In reply to Removed UserBilberry:

This is a bit annoying. I think i have probably bought most of the uk  maps I will ever need on viewranger and now it looks like once my phone dies and I have to download the new app I will lose them all. I think I will refuse the inadequate compensation of 3 months free subscription and use OS in protest. It’s one thing to stop selling map tiles but to basically  take away ones I’ve paid for is pretty crap. No doubt it was all in the small print ...

In reply to Harry Ellis:

I wonder if this might be a deliberate policy with some mapping companies?

I used to use Anquet maps, and they've changed their software so old maps can't be used at least twice. I wonder if there's a relatively small consumer market for OS mapping, and once those consumers have bought mapping the income stream dries up?

That reminds me, I need to bite the bullet and try and swap the battery in my old samsung S6.

In reply to Harry Ellis:

Has this changed?. I have viewranger and quiet like it. I tend to use the tiles. My understanding is you can have viewranger active on up to 4 devices. If you use a new device you can download all the tiles on your account. You can disable viewranger one one device if you want to add an active viewranger on a new account and you already have 4 (I havent tried this but that is my understanding).

In reply to steveb2006:

Yes but from what I read above it sounds like soon you won’t be able to download viewranger only the new outdoor active app which will not support the tiles you have already bought

In reply to Harry Ellis:

And - I don't see Harvey's maps in the list of maps available on Outdoor Active:
https://www.outdooractive.com/en/k/topographic-maps/37514020/

Looks very much like loyal users of Viewranger are getting shafted by this. Or am I just being cynical?

In reply to John:

I got a neg for passing on my findings?

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/hilltalk/viewranger_or_os_maps_is_there_a...

In reply to 99ster:

I don’t think you are being cynical. Apparently I get a subscription to Outdooractive Pro+ in compensation which is worth a fiver a month for a year. I’m not sure how much I’ve spent on tiles but I’m sure it’s substantially more than 60 quid.  
I’ve already been through this once when the old OS app I used wasn’t upgraded and I lost the maps I’d bought already. That’s why I went to ViewRanger rather than the new OS app. I don’t like subscription models generally but I’m beginning to see the advantages now. 

In reply to Bob Kemp:

The complete loss of the Harveys maps is extremely irritating - that alone will stop me from moving away from the Viewranger app - let alone the money I've spent buying tiles for all over Europe, and the UK (both OS + Harveys).

In reply to 99ster:

Agreed. I guess we can keep using ViewRanger until the app is no longer upgraded- that’s my plan anyway. 

In reply to 99ster:

I wasn't aware of the fact the Viewranger app was being dropped/transitioned.

Just 2 weeks ago I spent £60 odd on Harveys maps on Viewranger. Some warning while making these purchases would have been nice. FFS.

Back to paper maps it is.

In reply to Tradical:

And it gets even more painful when you see how much you would need to pay out to get Harveys maps on their new platform:

http://www.harveymaps.co.uk/acatalog/Harvey-digital-mapping-avenza-app.html

So that's £41.98 for Snowdonia North & South.  Wow.

Yet....buy an OS paper map and the digital version comes FREE with it.

In reply to 99ster:

And they don't currently offer the 1:25k scale maps as they do on Viewranger.

I learned to read maps as a young orienteer in school, so Harvey maps are natural, and there is part of me that likes to support the underdog too.

Let's hope there is a decent way forward when the time comes!

In reply to Tradical:

I contacted Viewranger about this, and they said they were continuing in parallel with Outdooractive. Fingers crossed it stays that way.

In reply to Root1:

I intend to keep using ViewRanger until they pull the plug- which will inevitably happen sooner or later. Probably when they can no longer be bothered to update for newer operating systems.

In reply to AndyMusgrove:

I pay £25 a year to have access to the OS maps on the Viewranger app. However the OS maps are not up-to-date. I know that footpaths have been diverted 25+ years ago but still the old route is shown.

If I subscribe to the OS app and use OS maps will that show up to date detail? I have seen poor reviews of the OS app, so need some reassurance!

Alun

In reply to YM:

I think it's unlikely.  Until recently the OS app was showing a slightly older version of the map than either the OS website or the Viewranger app here.  (I noticed because there's a relatively new bridleway that has only just appeared on the OS map.)

What do you see if you look on Bing?  https://www.bing.com/maps

Maybe the OS just are out of date.  Or maybe the footpaths were never officially diverted.  There's a big farm not far from here where the official line of a public footpath goes right through the middle of a massive new barn.  They've diverted the path around it on the ground, but never bothered with the paperwork to make it official.

For up to date detail, it would be worth having a look at the Open Street Map and its variants (Open Cycle Map etc..).  The map is updated by its users in a sort of open source stylee, it doesn't tell you which paths are rights of way but it's generally more up to date about where they actually are on the ground.

You can find those maps on Viewranger ("Viewranger Landscape" is based on the same data too.)
Also here:
https://www.openstreetmap.org
http://opencyclemap.org

Where are you talking about?  Give us a grid reference and maybe someone will post a screenshot of what the OS app is showing there.

In reply to deepsoup:

The Bing map appears to be using the same OS information that is on the Viewranger app. (OS maps). Due to the lockdown I am walking the local paths and sticking to paths which are Rights of Way, so I need field boundary details. It looks like the OS maps are out of date. Do OS get information from the Definitive Maps?

In reply to Bob Kemp:

That will make me cry a bit when it happens as well - Viewranger lets me hold the mapping I've got for it (whole country UK 25k mapping) sitting locally on my phone 24/7.

Does anything else let you do that? I don't care about a subscription free, but obviously streaming maps are hopeless for navigation. I don't think OS Maps is any good at downloading large areas of mapping.

In reply to Qwertilot:

I've found the OS app good at down loading maps to my phone, the whole of the Lake District for example no problem.

In reply to Bob Kemp:

I emailed viewranger support about this as they are still allowing me to spend money on credits and download tiles.  They replied very quickly 

“You can continue using ViewRanger, it is not stopping, but we are only doing maintenance on it now, no new development. You'll still be able to install it and access the maps you own. For how long is not set, but definitely into 2022, likely longer.”

This is reassuring to some extent. As long as I can get the old app and my maps onto any new phone I get I should be able to keep using what I have paid for at least which is probably most of what I will ever use in this county at least. 
HTH

In reply to Harry Ellis:

Thanks Harry. At least that clarifies the situation. 

In reply to elliot.baker:

Very late to this thread, and I'm sure you've since answered this question, but for the benefit of anyone swithering about whether OS map layers offer anything that Viewranger / OpenMaps don't, the answer is that OS maps offer much greater detail about fixed features - like crags, intertidal ranges, water courses etc. The free Viewranger layers show tightly packed gradients where in fact there may be a cliff, so if going cross country they are not adequate for route planning. When route planning I tend to use both though - as someone else pointed out the Open Cycle Map or Viewranger layers often have paths indicated that aren't on OS maps.

In reply to MarkSteven:

But of course you can buy OS map tiles in ViewRanger. Until they shut it down that is 😕

In reply to Bob Kemp:

indeed - the incoming "OutdoorActive" replacement is, well in a word shit!

In reply to Bob Kemp:

What's this? 

I use Viewranger with the OS map tiles...what's changing!?

In reply to Flinticus:

It was bought by Outdooractive, who have promised to keep it going for now, but who will inevitably stop supporting it at some point. They offered me a reduced subscription rate, which doesn’t do much to offset what I’ve spent on ViewRanger. Rubbish really.

In reply to Flinticus:

Classic, a corp merger last year.

https://outdooractive-uk.helpscoutdocs.com/article/74-faqs

Basically, lifetime-bought maps will work only in Viewranger (as long as it still works) and you should receive some "gift" from Outdooractive as compensation. I guess not really much if you had a lot of lifetime maps...

Subscriptions should carry on through. Outdooractive has two models, Pro (2.5€/m) and Pro+ (5€/m), with the former including OS, IGN and Swisstopo maps and the latter adding the ÖEAV(AAC) Alps maps and few others of lesser interest to us.

BTW, if you are a member of AAC (ÖEAV) club, you should have free access to the Outdooractiv Pro with your membership, including the OS maps, IGN and Swisstopo (and a 50% discount on Pro+ for the Alpine maps). Hope that offer remains even after the merger.

EDIT: Yes, Outdooractive Pro includes several other countries official topo maps:

https://www.outdooractive.com/en/k/topographic-maps/37514020/

In reply to Frank R.:

A lot of marketing bullshit on that link. Lots of questions with no answers.

I wonder how long the Viewranger app will work?

In reply to Qwertilot:

I think the Outdooractive site lets you download a limited area onto your phone but to get a larger area or the whole country would take ages. I may be wrong on this, but Viewranger definitely let's you keep the whole country ( Countries in fact!) on your phone.

I currently have the whole of New Zealand and the UK on mine. Its far better than Outdooractive 

In reply to Root1:

Re: Outdooractive, it's been a long time since I used it, but I think are right, you were able to download either:

1) only a small area one at a time (30-50km side square?), even though the number of offline areas was unlimited and they should seamlessly overlap when viewing.

2) along imported route.

A lot of work to download full UK one little box after another by hand and who knows if it wouldn't just crash...

Yes, it's pretty much useless for keeping the full map on your phone offline! I just used it for the ÖEAV Alpine maps a few times and that's it, it's too bloated otherwise as a map app.

I can't understand why they don't have a full map download in the app, many other apps allow you do download the whole licensed country at once, it's just a few GB if in vector format anyway, nothing modern phones can't handle. The OSM map for the whole of UK takes just 3GB.

I still have around 25GB of offline OSM maps in my phone right now from various trips pre-Covid, never even bothered to delete them afterwards. Free and even with offline navigation, although obviously often much less useful than official maps like OS.

In reply to Frank R.:

I didn’t realise you couldn’t download full map sets. Makes OutdoorActive even worse than I thought. 

In reply to Flinticus:

Chris Townsend has a detailed piece on all this on his blog...he was saying it will be running for at least another year.

Outdoor active sounds pretty poor...one person on the the blog was saying the app version can't currently handle OS grid references...

In reply to JB:

I use Memory Map (MM) all GB OS I:50K. I can have that on several devices so have it in my PC and phones. I usually download and print my routes from my PC. For any close navigation issues I have on my phone all MM GB at OS 1:25K which was a deal only available to a phone. MM would have up to date information and present costs on these apps.

I have an section End to End to Cape Wrath behind me and all 19 National Trails. I still have my first smartphone and a newer one; these have different providers so I am rarely get stuck for a signal. However I often take my Garmin Etrex to get a grid reference if al else fails.

This might be seen as belt and braces approach but with all those trails behind me I have had my navigational moments, no phone signal for most of Offas Dyke for one.

Although I do go light weight I consider a few more techy ounces are more than made up if false trails, wasted time and energy used for extra walking are avoided.

In reply to JB:

I've signed up to a 7 day free trial of OS Mapping. 

So far I prefer VR but of course that's not the future. Immeidately I noticed that you cxannot create Points of Interest on the OS app / maps which is a big functionality omission IMO.

I use POIs on VR to record fordable sectons of burns, wild camp spots, howfs, boulders, bothies, summits etc. 

In reply to Root1:

That does sound fairly hopeless!

I have played with downloading large areas in the Ordnance Surveys Maps subscription service. The basic is squares are hopelessly small for full coverage. There is a weird workaround with creating a route round the country and downloading the map derived from that route.

That sort of works but seems a bit flaky and you can't tell how big the resulting file will be - definitely much larger than viewranger. I think it must download all the aerial photography etc as well.

In reply to Qwertilot:

OK folks, I just transitioned to Outdooractive from Viewranger. That isn't going to work for me. 

1) All my POIs have come across identical. So instead of looking at Scotland distinguishing clearly between peaks I've climbed and peaks I haven't (by POI colour) and thereby being able to pick something for a quick half day on the way home, or a weather window or something, I'm screwed. Plus other POI categories for other hobbies I have. Meh. 

2) Can't download the whole country ? Blow that. I had the whole UK at 1:50K lifetime and it was astonishingly useful. 

So I'm scanning the market after 10 adequate years. What else should I be looking at ? I've heard of Anquet, MemoryMap, OS - any recommendations/alternatives ? Drop £150 on Harveys in paper format and be done with it ? 

Yes, next step will be to google reviews. 

Y

In reply to Bob Kemp:

Oh yes, OS tiles were available in Viewranger and this is what I meant by switching between layers - I would do that within Viewranger. Like others here I've a fair amount of OS tiles purchase now via Viewranger and its not clear what happens to these with the transition to Outdooractive....

In reply to MarkSteven:

Apparently they aren’t being carried over. Instead you get a derisory offer of a reduced subscription to OutdoorActive for a year. Even if it was a better app I would still be tempted to say FU and look for alternatives. 

In reply to Bob Kemp:

Mar 19, 2021, 16:27 GMT+1

Hi ...,

Thanks for your message. There are no current plans to add the option of choosing colours for points. I will forward this to the team as a suggestion for improvement. I am not able to say if or when it would be available.

Thanks
Jacob

Beste Grüße · Best regards

Outdooractive Support Team

In reply to:

Currently it's looking like MemoryMap (just does what VR used to do for me, no messing) or Satmap's Explorer/Expedition app suite which looks less mature but local and keen. There's a discount code for the latter if you're a member of the SMC. 

Goodbye Outdoor Active/VR. Glad my spending has depreciated itself. 

Y

In reply to Yanchik:

Hi all!  Not a climber myself but came here from a web-search on the question I see many here are asking - what's going to happen with my ViewRanger … and when?

I have Anquet and MemoryMap data (plus something else I've now forgotten) on the pc, but settled for Tracklogs into which I've put a fair few £ over the years.  Then got a smartphone and went the VR route, again with a goodly chunk of 50k and 25k OS VR map tiles purchased.

Which I thought would be permanent but now find they may be on an unknown countdown to nothingness.  Not greatly happy and certainly not impressed so far!  VR has been fine for me and I was happy enough to buy what/when I wanted into the future.

If I am to be forced into a subscription scheme from one source or another then yes, I'll look at OA. But it will also make me look at what else is around at the time that's worth considering which is, I suspect, not what VR/OA would want to hear.  Instead of giving me a darned good reason/s to stay and/or not to go (certainly more than just 3 months free), they have made me at least look up and around at what's about on the ground at the time.  Which, after all, is what any good nagivator should do!

Or I may even do nothing and fudge something together at the time.  Which is, again, not what OA would like.

Following ...

I just found out about what is happening to ViewRanger today as I wanted to buy some new maps but wasn't able to. It is very sad!

I think the ViewRanger developers must also be gutted about what OutdoorActive is doing to what they created.

Surely OutdoorActive must realise they cannot take over a company with a superior product, get rid of it, and then think all of its former users will switch to them on an inferior product and a subscription service to boot that takes away ownership and creates new problems. And to expect all that after taking away their ability to use the maps they spent a lot of money buying or to even but more?

I will not use the new OutdoorActive product. I will consider switching to a different company for the new maps I need. Might even make sense to switch back to paper maps because how do I know that I won't be defrauded in a similar fashion in the future?

If the ability to use the ViewRanger maps I have purchased is removed from me I will take OutdoorActive to small claims court to get all the money I spent on ViewRanger Maps back.

In reply to ImperialJohn:

I agree with your overall sentiments but unfortunately it might be tricky taking them to the small claims court as they're based in Germany.

In reply to Yanchik:

I've looked at MemoryMap: appears to be far over-engineered and unuser-friendly, like something the NHS may use after having spend £ms on. I have it open on Scotland and using the Find Location function and entering 'Fort William' into the 'Find a place by name' box does not through up any result! Even though I can see it on the map ovr which the Find box is laid. How's it going to cope with somewhere less known in the Highlands? If I'm not doing it right, then it's also a fail.

VR has just the functionality I needed and a 'just right' range of controls / options 

In reply to Flinticus:

I don't disagree. I don't tend to use the gazeteer search feature on these apps, but I appreciate that for some folks it's got to work. At the moment I'm holding out with VR until it actually stops working. Having spent far too much effort I'm at the following: 

MemoryMap: won't give you a route elevation graphic on iOS. Which is a setback if you're in Braemar trying to plan tomorrow's ski tour without a laptop or a quick trail run somewhere. Not crucial, but a bit rubbish: I've done both things easily with VR, years ago. Otherwise OK. 

Satmap: full of promise and features but the User Interface is a bag of nails. Spectacularly hard to use or remember and very cluttered - even with the ads turned off it looks as if it would be awful. That's on iOS. The webapp version looks quite reasonable. 

Anquet: again, no route elevation graphic on iOS. My notes say it at least gives you a total ascent. There's also a lot of online moaning about updates that broke things and a lack of support/love which I know is hard to qualify, but...

Routebuddy: agressive advertising and expensive, no full-UK map offer at all.  

Fatmap and OS are both quite clever but don't do the job. The fundamental problems with OA for me are the inability to download a decent map dataset and the undifferentiated waypoints. 

There's an opportunity here for some agile developers...

Y

In reply to Flinticus:

I don't know how you're using it, but Fort William as a search term works perfectly well, both on a desktop and on an Android phone. There is an issue sometimes with the gazeteer not downloading properly - that may the problem you're encountering. 

In reply to AndyMusgrove:

The purchase of mapping tiles has always seemed to be a bit of a rip-off; tied to some mapping app that may have a short life, and not transferable to another app.

I've used OruxMaps for years. It used to be able to access OS mapping via the Bing API, until the lawyers got involved.

Fortunately, I have another source of mapping, and I can cut tile sets using MOBAC.

I've used Galileo on iPad, and Locus on Android (also with full access to is mapping from my source), but I don't find them as intuitive as Orux, but that may be just familiarity. Just had a play with Orux POIs, but, whilst you can define your own POI type, I can't see a means to specify the colour.

I barely scratch the surface of Orux' capabilities; mapping (raster & vector, including download), route entry, track recording, 3D view I use, but there are loads of sensor integration and other display, geocaching and POI functions I have never tried.

In reply to All:

New to the site and map apps. Having researched apps for several hours I had come to the conclusion that Viewranger was the right app for me and then I come across this thread. Talk about a big letdown.

Just on the offchance I thought I'd ask: if you bought OS maps (not Tiles) for use on VR, could you transfer them to another app, say the OS Maps app?

In reply to Frank R.:

Hi Frank, do you have any info on how you do this? I can't find any info online on free access with AAC membership. Most relevant link I found was https://aacuk.org.uk/p-alpenvereinaktiv-app

In reply to Juan S:

Hi Juan! Just the same link you posted. Or here in German, which says ÖEAV members get Pro included with their membership ("Pro: für AV-Mitglieder inklusive der AV-Karte") and Pro+ at a reduced rate:

https://www.alpenvereinaktiv.com/de/pro.html

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to try it out myself, not having renewed my membership yet since last year (with all my spring 2020 plans cancelled, it didn't make much sense to keep it at the time, though I will probably get it again either this summer or at least from autumn, if their "buy next year and get autumn coverage this year free" offer for new and lapsed members still holds).

In reply to AndyMusgrove:

I subscribe to OS maps @20/year and have the app on my iPhone, Over the years I have found it very useful. 

However when I go out and get a map up on the app I am repeatedly told it may cost me to use maps when outdoors, even though I have downloaded the map beforehand.

On the laptop I would like it to tell me how far along a route I have plotted I am when afterwards I whizz along it on the screen, and I would like to be able to display more than one route at once.

In reply to 99ster:

Apparently Harvey Maps are coming to Outdooractive on 1 May with a Pro+ subscription.

In reply to captain paranoia:

I believe the https://www.backcountrynavigator.com app still has free OS maps via the Bing API?

I cant see this been the case for long though.

In reply to Removed UserThorsson:

Much of the research i did with google only ever pointed to the two apps, Viewranger or OS's own.

There are many good mapping apps to choose from but none of them seem to get much publicity. I find this strange as there must be many mapping geeks and professions users out there who could write more articles on this topic.

In reply to Removed UserThorsson:

I guess that depends on the licensing conditions and all the legalese small print we all clicked "accept" without reading, but I doubt it. At least without some significant goodwill from both OS and VR or their successor...

Perhaps a time to lobby (without the Sleaze, of course!) for the release of all OS map data (incl. the 1:50K and 1:25K) under Open Government license? If the Swiss and Scandinavians cam manage, so might OS? Probably not under current leadership, though...