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An unusual complaint

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 Flinticus 29 Jun 2021

Too hot and still! 

For day time hill walking with my dog. All week according to the Met Office 

I've the car, my partner is away with her parents for a week and my dog is ready to go. But no way can she walk in 20c heat with her fur and actually take any pleasure in it and not risk heat exhaustion. Then the flies! 

And I'm not a big fan of anything over 18c. Where's my Scottish summer?? 

If I wanted hot I wouldn't be living here.

Post edited at 19:29
9
 colinakmc 29 Jun 2021
In reply to Flinticus:

 Not to worry, I’m going off out tomorrow. That means (regardless of air mass, wind direction or forecasts) it’ll be damp with extensive hill fog. Make your plans now…..

1
In reply to Flinticus:

2 threads running concurrently, both complaining about the natural environment/things beyond our control!! You'll be accused of being a grumpy old man 😠😡. Your inner peace might be better served by an acceptance of those things beyond your control. Namaste🙏 

1
 girlymonkey 29 Jun 2021
In reply to Flinticus:

Yep, similar problem here. The dog got a walk through the woods next to the river up to North Third reservoir for a swim, then back through more woods. It was pleasant and he was happy, but I would have liked to have been able to take him up the hills. It was also too hot for my morning run! 

I definitely suit a more normal Scottish summer better!

OP Flinticus 29 Jun 2021
In reply to buxtoncoffeelover:

You had to say 'namaste'! Which is code for 'I'm more centred than you' 😛

OP Flinticus 29 Jun 2021
In reply to colinakmc:

Can you go out Saturday? Over towards eastern Cairngorms  

 ogreville 29 Jun 2021
In reply to Flinticus:

Set off at 3am? Still enough ambient light this time of year. Youll be back at the car before it gets too hot

Post edited at 22:47

Thankyou 

In reply to Flinticus:

It's actually being remarkably cool in the UK in the last few weeks, barely topping 20 C. NIST define "normal temperature" as 20 C, because it's right in the middle of the temperature range of the planet. 20 C is hardly warm, let alone "hot". In my book, 

< -30 C  "exceptionally cold"

-30 to -20 C "extremely cold"

-20 to -10 C "very cold"

-10 to 0 C "freezing"

0 - 10 C "cold"

10 - 20 C "cool"

20 - 30 C "warm"

30 - 40 C "hot"

40 - 50 C "extremely hot"

> 50 C "exceptionally hot"

My last two dogs (hairy Golden Retrievers) coped with 35+ C in Texas in the summers, although they did molt like crazy! Any dog should be absolutely fine at 20 C.

I do things the English make an extraordinary fuss about minute changes in temperature, and yet hardly ever mention the humidity or the wind direction, which IMO can make a much bigger difference to how warm or cool it feels. For example, I find a spell of freezing weather with the sun out, and little wind, can feel very pleasant. Sometimes -5 C can be "sunbathing weather", whereas +1 or 2 degrees with a cold, damp NE or ENE wind can feel absolutely brutal.

Above 20 C, I usually wear shorts, which is the first/best way to keep cool in warmer weather. Below 20 C is getting a little cool for shorts. Rock climbing can be OK up to about 40 C in dry heat, out of the sun. Above that, climbing gear in the sun can be getting too hot to touch. Typical tropical, hot, humid weather 30 - 35 C with near 100% humidity, is almost impossible to climb in, because one is literally running with sweat. Venues close to water (e.g. DWS) are about the only places that make sense in such conditions.

14
 Dax H 30 Jun 2021
In reply to John Stainforth:

Temperature is a very personal thing.

Your list has 20 as cool and you say sub 20 is too cold for shorts.

For me 20 is very hot and I struggle to both work and play. Perfect shorts and tee-shirt weather is 10. 5 is tee-shirt and long trousers and below 5 is put a vest under the tee-shirt.

With regard to the dogs, they get used to the temperature we live at. At home we never close the windows and only put the heating on a few days a year. The dogs seem quite happy with this and like me they struggle when summer comes despite having their summer hair cut. At this time of year I take them for a walk at 5am and after 9pm.

This isn't me saying I'm a hard northern bloke, I struggle like hell in warm weather and in anything like 25+ I can't function at all. Either I'm conditioned to the cold from working outdoors for the last 35 years or my internal thermostat is broken. 

2
 CantClimbTom 30 Jun 2021
In reply to Flinticus:

Take the dog to the groomers for a short hair cut.

Doesn't help with flies but does solve one problem

 SouthernSteve 30 Jun 2021
In reply to John Stainforth:

Regarding dogs. The current advice for dogs working hard (running etc) is to consider their risk of overheating at over 18˚C. In a hot environment such as Texas, dogs may have adapted. However the previous advice stands in the UK. Seeing faithful enthusiastic dogs that have exercised excessively with their owners die in ICU is tragic (runners in my experience). Run–walk (allowing assessment of dog as you go) and lots of access to water is my recommendation or leave the dog at home.

In reply to CantClimbTom:

Cutting the coat may cause increased heat absorption when radiant heat is the problem.

In reply to Flinticus:

I am with you, a recent Marathon starting misty and wet and then getting hot had me struggling. I might be OK if I had trained in any sun! An earlier start would have been excellent.

Post edited at 07:08
OP Flinticus 30 Jun 2021
In reply to John Stainforth:

Given the experience of temperature is a personal thing, you're suggesting a scientific scale to measure my experience? 10 - 20 is 'cool' yet. for me that is no where near homogenous enough to fall within the same bracket. A difference of 10 degrees is significant to me. And below 20 too cool for shorts?? 

I should have said there wss no wind at all. I do appreciate the difference that can make! 

I learned to pay attention to my dog from experience. Sure she would accompany me in warm temps but my goal is not to test her attachment. Coupled with exertion and a lack of water and shelter on the hills, hot spells are not good for her. 

I am planning now a late hike and dawn walk. We were up at 4.20am walking Monday morning.

 CurlyStevo 30 Jun 2021
In reply to John Stainforth:

18 deg is about the perfect temp for exercise for me, 23 is ok with the right clothes but I’ll sweat 25-28 is lazing about weather and above 30 is a waste. Over 35 in unbearable and not enjoyable at all for me,

 Graeme G 30 Jun 2021
In reply to John Stainforth:

> I do things the English make an extraordinary fuss about minute changes in temperature

Yes. But what about the OP?

 graeme jackson 30 Jun 2021
In reply to Flinticus:

It's much cooler today. Depending where you live, Tinto might be a pleasant slog

OP Flinticus 30 Jun 2021
In reply to graeme jackson:

Work... 

In reply to Dax H:

I suppose the perception of temperature is a personal thing, although temperature itself is an absolute. I didn't say that 20 is cool, rather that it's right on the borderline between "cool" and "warm". Nor did I say that sub 20 is too cold for shorts - I said it was getting "a little cool for shorts".  

Globally, 20 C is more or less the standard for restaurants or offices; much cooler or warmer than that, and customers or office workers start complaining that is "too cool" or "too warm". Also, 20 C is very often used as an average temperature for scientific purposes ("room temperature" or "normal temperature") I was very surprised by 20 C being described as "very hot"; I've never heard that before. For me, 25 C is perfect T-shirts and shorts weather, where as below 15 C, I definitely prefer long trousers.

The UK has a remarkably moderate climate. There are vast quantities of dogs living in places with a continental climate, where the temperature goes way below freezing in the winter and up to 30 - 35 + in the summer. My eldest daughter breeds dogs in Croatia, where it is typically 30 - 35 in the summer, and these dogs have gone to owners all over the world from the tropics to Alaska, and all are thriving.

Most Brits who go on holiday in the tropics or the Caribbean or the Med seem to love it, whereas the moment they are back it Britain, 22 C is regarded as a "heat wave", and "tomorrow the mercury is going to hit a sizzling 24 C". Foreigners literally do not know what on earth we are going on about. Even my other daughter in California, where temperatures in the last week have been 40 + C,  doesn't get the British fuss.

Post edited at 11:01
2
 thomasadixon 30 Jun 2021
In reply to John Stainforth:

40 degree heat in California is not bad at all, there’s no humidity!  Different climate completely, you can’t just compare temperature.

OP Flinticus 30 Jun 2021
In reply to thomasadixon:

And 40 degrees has people dropping dead in Vancouver according to the Guardian.

My dog is fine walking in the woods or along the beach etc. but not fighting uphill through ferns, bracken and heather, with no wind, water or shade. Normally she is way ahead of me and eager. Last year (or the year before) she refused to go on a hill walk but was perfectly fine playing along the beach. When she's hanging back and needing to be cajoled I know the game is up. I suppose the temperature is one aspect of the environment but the most prominent. 

 girlymonkey 30 Jun 2021
In reply to Flinticus:

There is a lot of chat in the canicross world about temperatures for dogs to exercise in. The Brits in the groups are always aghast at the temperatures that people run their dogs in elsewhere. It does just come down to what they are acclimatised to. Humidity seems to be a bigger factor for our dog than heat, but heat is also a problem. We can't run our dog (canicross, so he is pulling into a harness) if it's warmer than 9 degrees and it's easier if humidity is under 80%. We always canicross places with water to dunk him in too. Walking is obviously less of an issue, but still becomes a problem for him over about 17 degrees. He doesn't do slow, even when he is too hot, so if we don't regulate his activity in the heat he would actually kill himself with hyperthermia!

OP Flinticus 30 Jun 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

https://www.vets-now.com/summer/when-is-it-too-hot-to-walk-a-dog/

As you say, its not just the temp. Its the activity level, access to shade, water (for drinking and dunking) and humidity and wind. I see too many dogs struggling out of sight behind their owners! They can and do keep going till they drop with heat exhaustion.

In reply to thomasadixon:

... which was one of the points I was making.

In fact, there is a way of comparing how heat feels at different temperature, which is what the Americans call the Heat Index. So their forecasts often show the predicted temperatures and then the 'feels like' temperature (the Heat Index), which factors in the effect of humidity. In subzero, dry climates they and the Canadians factor in the strong effect of the wind into to what is called the Wind Chill. Wunderground show the Heat Index as well as the temperature in their forecasts. For example, in Houston at the moment (9.20 a.m. their time) the temperature is 28 C, but "feels like" 34 C.

(There are also Wunderground reports for the UK.)

 SouthernSteve 08 Jul 2021
In reply to Flinticus:

This has just been published, particularly highlighting the risks for the flatter faces dog. 

http://www.ukbwg.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/NEW-RESEARCH-REVEALS-HOT...

Roadrunner6 08 Jul 2021
In reply to Flinticus:

In the US with a black lab I just have to plan around waterfalls and ponds all summer. I did a 30 mile loop last week with two huskys and my lab but we followed streams and waterfalls almost all the route.

 mbh 08 Jul 2021
In reply to John Stainforth:

>Nor did I say that sub 20 is too cold for shorts - I said it was getting "a little cool for shorts".  

When I want to go out running, I look at the weather forecast and, more or less, if it predicts over 5, I wear shorts.

If it predicts sheeting rain as well, then obviously I don't even go out. That would be ridiculous.

If it is going to be hot (over 20ish!) then I go out early. Running in heat is horrible.

Andy Gamisou 08 Jul 2021
In reply to Flinticus:

Been out climbing today in 38°c.  Just got in recently from having the dogs out in 28°C at 8:00 pm.  I'll take them out again tomorrow at around 5:30 when it's maybe cooled to 22°C.  Couldn't be that you're simply getting soft

OP Flinticus 08 Jul 2021
In reply to Andy Gamisou:

Always been soft. Get softer in the heat. Need the cold to firm things up! 

OP Flinticus 08 Jul 2021
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Sounds good. The tiny burns on many Scottish hills dry up after a few hot days. Clearly the glens are usually better.


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