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/ Climbers rescued in the Cairngorms

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Trangia on 28 Dec 2017
Happy ending, thank goodness.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-42501062

They forgot to take their map!!

Otherwise very well equipped.

Hands up! How many of us have forgotten our map, or worse still grabbed the wrong one as we set out?

Typing this with a red face..........
jonnie3430 - on 28 Dec 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Forgot Google maps on their phone too?
Dave the Rave on 28 Dec 2017
In reply to Trangia:

I must admit that I’ve done a few Munro’s without a map(or GPS), when I’ve not been in ownership of that map(skint)and the weather has been perfect. Wrong I know, but....
Lion Bakes on 28 Dec 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Had a map blow out of our hands and literally followed it till we could get hold of it again.
summo on 28 Dec 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Map each. Problem solved.
fmck - on 28 Dec 2017
In reply to Trangia:

When I was completing my last Munro, Corbett, Graham & Donald on the same day. I Had brought the Stirling OS map for the Ochils which didn't have the last Donald on it. I hoped to get there in time to buy one but with limited time before midnight we had to just go for it. We ended up of course off route with the time 11.15pm. We ended up having run to a point that looked promising reaching the correct peak with only 20 minutes to spare. At the time I was pretty much in a state that after all the years of planning & mountains I was about to blow it with such a simple error.
In my case a simple error nearly cost me a goal in life but such a small error can have much more devastating consequences.
alan moore - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Had a map but forgot the compass once:
Still, nice, easy navigation following fence lines in the deepest, snowy Southern Uplands. That is until the fences disappeared an a new windmill road appeared out of the mist. I followed the road, in the wrong direction as it turned out, past several half built turbines and in the end gave up and descended into the valley. A couple of miles down and no sign of Culter Water but at least had a map to recognise the forestry block leading down to Elvenfoot.
No option but to find a fence and slog black over Huddlestone hill. A fell runner caught me up at the top and said' that new road makes it a lot easier'!
Guess he had a compass.
Deleted bagger - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Trangia:

> Hands up! How many of us have forgotten our map, or worse still grabbed the wrong one as we set out?

Guilty as charged............

Rip van Winkle - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to alan moore:

Leading a walking group once on a route new to me. Got off the bus, walked up the road, felt in pocket - no compass. Luckily had a tiny spare in pack and used that all day. Only one client noticed!
mountain.martin - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to fmck:

Congratulations, but as a matter of interest what was the goal that you nearly missed? you could have gone up another day to finish them off.
That is a great achievement anyway.

Was completing them all on the same day a significant part of the challenge for you?

Dave Hewitt - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to mountain.martin:

> Congratulations, but as a matter of interest what was the goal that you nearly missed?

He was completing the four lists mentioned on the same day (23/5/09), the first three as a single walk up Corrour way, the Donald (Blairdenon) separately. An impressive achievement - if perhaps akin to eating several dinners at once! There have been a few remarkable things like this over the years - Brian Ringland finished Munros, Munro Tops, Corbetts and Grahams on the same day (2/6/04, Sgritheall etc) on foot as part of the same walk, and Roderick Manson managed Munros, Corbetts and Grahams on the same day (17/6/06, Seana Bhraigh etc) during a coast to coast walk. Most I know of is (almost inevitably) by Rob Woodall who finished five lists in one day (6/10/02), although some of these were less well known lists than the ones mentioned above.

Incidentally, re the thing of taking map and compass on the hill, while I'll almost always do it on something Corbett or Munro size and also on any new hill or something climbed from a new direction, it depends on whether I've been there a lot before. Even in poor weather I'm about as likely to take map/compass on some standard local-patch loop from the southern side of the Ochils as I am to take them with me when heading out to the shops. Not likely to be much needed either if doing, say, the standard path circuit of Ben Lomond from Rowadennan in summer (although I'd almost certainly take them for that if only out of habit).
fmck - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to mountain.martin:

The answer is yes. More impressive is Daves facts not figures. I couldn't tell you the exact date for my completion. I had to look it up to see if he was right. He was : (
Dave Hewitt - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to fmck:
> The answer is yes. More impressive is Daves facts not figures. I couldn't tell you the exact date for my completion. I had to look it up to see if he was right. He was : (

!

A more common mini version of the multi-completion thing is people finishing "just" rounds of Munros and Corbetts on the same day. This usually takes the form of second Munros combined with first Corbetts, although I think there's been a third Munros and second Corbetts as well. I don't have the figures easily to hand but there have been something like ten instances of the Ms+Cs thing in various forms.

Incidentally, re Rob W's five-list finish in 2002, again I have a note somewhere of what they all were, but the one I can remember (because I was present) was mainland Marilyns, on Dumyat - so a sort of part-list, I guess. It was a glorious early autumn day and there were quite a few people there - we went up the big gully from Blairlogie, very nice. Pretty much everyone then came back to our place for food and drink in the sunshine on the patio - apart from Rob, who had already scooted off towards the M74 with other lists to complete down Shap way...
Post edited at 10:55
Paul Evans - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Trangia:

On the 3 peaks, Ben Nevis & Scafell Pike both ticked no probs, sets off up Snowdon with map of Snowdon left in car. Map of Scafell not a lot of use on Snowdon in the dark....at least we had headtorches and a compass. Of course it was raining...
Sophie G. - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Trangia:

On a hill we know well, in good weather with a settled forecast, where we're doing a climb on a face we've climbed on before then walking off the way we usually walk off, the map doesn't come out at any point. It doesn't *look* like we actually need it, though we take it anyway. But if we got half a mile from the car under those circs and realised we'd forgotten it, I don't think we'd turn around to fetch it.
Sophie G. - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Trangia:
And again: the Cuillin. The 1:50 is very little help when you're actually on the ridge. The 1:25 isn't that much better. If I'm a bit stuck for nav, Mike Lates's narrative guide is much more useful than any map.
I'm not saying I won't take a map. I do, of course. I just don't use it very much when I'm in the Cuillin, and virtually not at all on the ridge itself. (I might use it for identifying distant hills in views, and/or for "Are we there yet?" moments during the walk-out .)
Post edited at 11:56
keith-ratcliffe on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Trangia:
On my first walk with a University club in 1972 our leader hesitantly navigated round the Langdale Pikes circuit. He appeared to be using the 1" Tourist map but when I had a better view back in the pub it transpired he was using the 1" Tourist map of the Peak District.
Sophie G. - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Or the Nevis plateau in a storm. If it's bad enough, you won't even be able to get a map out, never mind read it. You'll just use the cairns to the top of Maclean's Steep then get down the zigzags on a bearing. If you can get a compass out.
petestack - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

> mini version of the multi-completion thing

Munros, Tops and deleted Munros/Tops on the same day (and same hill) here... really just one list, but done my way!
Sophie G. - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Having said all that--the kind of terrain where I certainly wouldn't want to be without a map and a compass is a big wide open high plateau with lots of ins and outs and confusing features, a tendency to go white-out at 30 seconds' notice, and an edge of dangerous cliffs on nearly all sides. The Cairngorm plateau, for instance
Dave Hewitt - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to petestack:

> Munros, Tops and deleted Munros/Tops on the same day (and same hill) here... really just one list, but done my way!

Good stuff. Another one I've remembered is Hazel Strachan's completion of third Donalds (on East Mount Lowther) and fourth Munros (on Ben Wyvis) on the same day, 30/6/12. An interesting combination.

Re the maps thing, a crowd of us spent the very snowy/cold new year week of 1985/86 at Onich (a week that included 29/12/85, which is on various people's short list for the best conditions day in the past 40 years or so). On one of the less good - but still very wintry - days a friend named Mick decided he wanted to climb the Buachaille, which he'd never been on before. He did this alone, with just a large-format AA road atlas of the UK shoved inside his rucksack by way of a map, and he got up and down OK.
Iain Thow - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

A few weeks after getting my first car a friend asked "Have you climbed a hill using a road atlas yet?". I had too (and have done more since, although that did lead to doing the wrong summit of Dumyat in thick mist)
Iain Thow - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Deleted bagger:

Guilty here too, at least twice, OL Dark Peak instead of Snowdon and S Skye instead on N.
petestack - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Dave Hewitt:
> An interesting combination.

Very!

In reply to Iain Thow:

> A few weeks after getting my first car a friend asked "Have you climbed a hill using a road atlas yet?". I had too (and have done more since, although that did lead to doing the wrong summit of Dumyat in thick mist)

I did the wrong summit of Meall Greigh with the right map and still partly blame it...
http://www.petestack.com/blog/meall-greigh-wasnae-there.html

'So what happened? Well, nothing that struck me as wrong at the time... it was very cold and windy and I couldn't see more than a few metres, but the ground was dropping beyond the 'summit' and the altimeter said 1003 where the map said 1001 so I turned and legged it back to Glen Lyon. Then I got home, thought I'd remind myself what Butterfield and the SMC Munros guide had to say about these hills and discovered that Meall Greigh has two summit pimples separated by 200m of flat ground, with the single ring contour denoting the NW imposter neatly hidden by the 'a' of the hill name on the 1:50,000 map (silly, that). Knew instantly because of the way they described it that I'd goofed, so wasn't at all surprised when importing my Forerunner track to Memory-Map confirmed the bad news and just ever so slightly took the shine off a satisfying round!'
Post edited at 14:15
Dave Hewitt - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Iain Thow:
> Guilty here too, at least twice, OL Dark Peak instead of Snowdon and S Skye instead on N.

The reverse is always slightly unnerving to encounter, ie people who have perfectly good maps but don't seem capable of reading them. The most lost person I've ever met was a young bloke at the summit of Ben Cleuch a few years ago. He asked for help as he didn't know where he was, despite having a map case dangling round his neck. This contained both a perfectly good map and one of those step-by-step printout things of the route, which included a photograph of the trig point and view indicator at the top of Ben Cleuch - both of which were about two yards from us as we had the conversation. I pointed to the picture and its accompanying text and asked if he knew now where he was, and he said no, sorry, he didn't. A bit worrying. I then spent several minutes giving instructions about the easiest/safest way down, then sat down for lunch at the cairn while he headed off, initially at least in the right direction. A quarter of an hour later I followed in the same direction but there was no sign of him, either on the suggested route or (once I'd dropped out of the cloud about a third of the way down) on any of the nearby alternatives. It was November and there wasn't much daylight, and I spent the entire descent worrying about the bloke and stopping to look for him in the distance - in retrospect I should have delayed my lunch and got him down at least to below cloud level. When I got home I contacted a couple of people in the local MRT on a precautionary basis, the only time I've ever done this. As far as I know nothing came of it and he got down OK in due course, but it was an impressive piece of going-wrong-ness.
Post edited at 14:07
girlymonkey - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

> Incidentally, re the thing of taking map and compass on the hill, while I'll almost always do it on something Corbett or Munro size and also on any new hill or something climbed from a new direction, it depends on whether I've been there a lot before. Even in poor weather I'm about as likely to take map/compass on some standard local-patch loop from the southern side of the Ochils as I am to take them with me when heading out to the shops. Not likely to be much needed either if doing, say, the standard path circuit of Ben Lomond from Rowadennan in summer (although I'd almost certainly take them for that if only out of habit).

My theory on this is that if I did get injured and need mountain rescue, then I would need to give them a grid reference. I do often just take my phone with OS app for something like this, but I do feel I need a tool for finding my grid ref!
Dave Hewitt - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to girlymonkey:

> My theory on this is that if I did get injured and need mountain rescue, then I would need to give them a grid reference. I do often just take my phone with OS app for something like this, but I do feel I need a tool for finding my grid ref!

Yes, I take your point - it does make sense in terms of being able to conjure up a gridref in an emergency. I guess I've never really thought about it as in the old days people tended to just give descriptions - "a bit south of the top of Craighorn", or whatever - on the basis that the non-centralised first port of call in the rescue chain would know at least roughly where was meant. I don't have a mobile that does anything more than basic phoning and texting, no apps, so taking an actual map would be necessary in that situation (or at least having key gridrefs jotted down on a bit of paper in case of emergency).
Iain Thow - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to petestack:

Once did the classic thing of turning round at the big cairn on the N Top of B Dorain when coming up from Bridge of Orchy . 70mph wind so didn't get the map out, lots of snow and everyone else had turned back so no footprints and no track visible. Got down and remembered on my only previous visit a friend had said "This could be quite confusing in mist if you were coming from the north....". A map's only any use if you look at it. Duh!
wercat on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Dave Hewitt:
it's perfectly possible not to be able to read the map being carried. Reading specs forgotten, lost or broken....

People seeking location help sometimes flash a map under my nose but if I'm not carrying any specs I have to apologise and decline.
Post edited at 15:06
NeilBoyd - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Forgot my map on a summer mountain leader assessment day after a very late night in a Capel Curig pub. I realised early on and thought I would just wing it by looking at the other candidates' maps and by being young and enthusiastic. I got rumbled by the third navigation leg. I still passed though, as I knew the Welsh hills like the back of my hand. The assessor wrote'... a very competent mountaineer but he needs to not forget essential items of personal equipment'.
Could probably still write the same now...
Denzil - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to wercat:

> it's perfectly possible not to be able to read the map being carried. Reading specs forgotten, lost or broken....

One of the competitors had to be rescued on the Spine race after losing her glasses and being unable to read the map. Couldn’t even read her notes for the phone number of the organisers to request help, but was able to dial 999 and the police contacted them instead. Since the competitors carry trackers, the organisers were able to divert a nearby runner to assist initially.
petestack - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Iain Thow:

> A map's only any use if you look at it. Duh!

Oh, I've done non-nav (as opposed to just poor nav) too! Like (most spectacularly) heading up Glen Shira instead of Glen Fyne for Beinn Bhuidhe after not looking at the map since leaving Kinlochleven and forgetting that you've got Loch Shira before the head of Loch Fyne!

In reply to wercat:

> it's perfectly possible not to be able to read the map being carried. Reading specs forgotten, lost or broken....

Also experienced that on the Grahams between Barcaldine and Bonawe when I unexpectedly escaped a contact lens check in Oban with my contacts still in then found I could read neither map nor GPS. I have a single reading lens on a cord as well as reading glasses, but hadn't taken either because I'd expected to be wearing my regular varifocals (which I can also peep right over for close-up detail).

On the Glen Shira day I still got my peak in the end, but had to go back for a few metres of one of my Barcaldine/Bonawe Grahams!
Jim Braid - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Don't recall ever having forgotten a map or taken the wrong one but had one blow away out of a jacket pocket. It was back in the day when hillwalking jackets had big patch pockets and came down to mid thigh. Favourite map as well as it was a clothbacked map of the Cairngorms. Yes, it was a few years ago.

It was a very windy winter's day and I was on my own going up the side of Lochan Uaine in Coire Sputan Dearg to get on to Sron Riach. My plan was to go up Macdui then return by the Hutchison Hut. When I got up to Sron Riach I had a decision to make, either cut the day short by just walking back down Sron Riach or carry on as planned. Of course I just carried on up as I still had my compass with me and knew that if I walked E from the top of Macdui and took care not to walk over the cliffs of Coire Sputan Dearg I would be OK.

Never saw a soul on the hills that day. My diary entry reads "very fierce on top". Certainly sharpens the senses wandering down off Macdui like that.

As someone else has commented: I know it was wrong, but...
Flinticus - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Once used a book of walks. 'Map' a few black curves. No details. Made it to the first summit then organised a mutiny and we abandoned walk due to deep snow and incoming weather front and running out of time (mid winter). The original instigator of the walk wanted to go on. I thought that was madness and said my wife and I were heading back and anyone was welcome to follow us. Everyone did. If anyone had gone on, I think they would have put themselves in real danger.

That was early on in my walking history and before mobile phone GPS or map apps.
Wainers44 - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Trangia:

My hall of shame...

Welsh 3000s in poor weather starting at 0530, all three of us forgot our compasses. Nav was challenging at times in no visibility.

Arriving at the foot of Ben More and Stob Binnen on a snowy day with a great guidebook but no map. We followed the description to the letter....we did have 3 compasses.

Now luckily older and hopefully slightly wiser!
Trangia on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Wainers44:
> My hall of shame...

> Welsh 3000s in poor weather starting at 0530, all three of us forgot our compasses. Nav was challenging at times in no visibility.

> Arriving at the foot of Ben More and Stob Binnen

For a moment I thought "Bloody hell! You really were lost........"
Post edited at 18:51
Wainers44 - on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to Trangia:

For many moments we were....


keith-ratcliffe on 29 Dec 2017
In reply to NeilBoyd:
We had a guy on our ML assessment who was a bit of an idiot. We were having a snack break on our navigation day and he claimed that he had a photographic memory. On the next leg the assessor took his map off him and asked him to find a small lake about a mile away. He tried to take us there unsuccessfully and failed his assessment. The assessor told us later that if he had confessed to his boast he would have got his map back but by trying to fulfil it he proved he was unsafe with group leadership.
fmck - on 30 Dec 2017
In reply to Dave Hewitt:
Appoligies that was meant facts and figures. Not facts not figures. The flaming phone can be a real pain.
Iain Thow - on 30 Dec 2017
In reply to fmck:

No wonder it's a pain if it's a flaming phone (Galaxy Note?). Sorry, couldn't resist.
Sean Kelly - on 30 Dec 2017
In reply to summo:

> Map each. Problem solved.

In truth they actually forgot three maps. I don't mind who I am climbing with, at any time of year a map and compass are the first things into my rucksack. A lesson from bitter experience on High Street nearly 50 years ago when I lost my companion in thick mist and they had the map and compass!
Name Changed 34 - on 31 Dec 2017
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Do you carry a whistle?
The other thread about being lost in the Carmorms is interesting in this as a whistle would have possibly shortened the search

HNY all
fmck - on 31 Dec 2017
In reply to Sean Kelly:

I had a mate who used to let me do the navigation and didn't bother carrying a map or compass. He disappeared in thick cloud behind me on Angel peak Cairngorm. I retraced my steps to when I last seen him and zig zagged the area. I then spent some time down at the bothy asking people before walking out. I couldn't retrieve my bike as he had chained his to it. At the car park I phoned the wife and decided after 8 hours I was going to contact MRT. At this point he arrived on his bike carrying mine. He was amazed at how long he had been missing thinking he was just behind me. I always refer to it as his Cairngorm alien abduction because he has never come clean about where he was.
Sean Kelly - on 31 Dec 2017
In reply to Name Changed 34:

> Do you carry a whistle?

Yes, two in fact, one attached to the compass, and another attached to my jacket. But usually only one compass. Sometimes two maps, especially if they are to different scales, one for general nav and one for the fine detail. If bad weather is expected then a map-case as well as I can carry it hands-free so to speak.
Andy Mullett - on 02 Jan 2018
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

The reverse is always slightly unnerving to encounter, ie people who have perfectly good maps but don't seem capable of reading them.

A couple of years ago we were taking a break just below the summit of Yr Aran when a group of a dozen Sikhs with broad Black Country accents came up the path, some well kitted out, others in trainers etc... you get the picture. The guys at the front had a map, and asked us if it was far to the top, to which we replied a couple of hundred metres. They then dumbfounded us by asking if the cafe was open!! All we could do was point to Snowdon summit, just visible through the clag, and suggest that they were a teensy bit of course... which didn't go down well with some of the backmarkers... A classic moment...
ben b - on 02 Jan 2018
In reply to Trangia:
Many years ago I drove up to the Cairn Gorm ski area car park after a long week of night shifts at Raigmore had finished. I took the rising traverse path to Coire an t-Sneachda - missing the hills and thinking some fresh air would do me good and reset the body clock that much better(!). Being young and foolish, I didn't think I needed a rest was needed first.

It was March and cold and blowy, but I wandered up the very pleasant I/II line of the Fiacaill ridge to the plateau where it was getting a bit wild. Still, I knew the area fairly well and so I tootled off towards the summit of Cairn Gorm curving around the top of the goat track and away from the cornices. The weather got steadily more wild, and I hunkered down in a scoop in the snow to get out map and compass. Opening the top pocket of my pack I found what had previously felt reassuringly like a folded map (in map case) and compass was in fact a pack of Tunnock's Caramel Wafers - map and compass were safely in the boot of my car. It was now pretty much a white out.

I'm still a little conflicted, several decades later, if getting out of that one was my finest hour or my stupidest. Probably both. I had been up and working hard all night since 5pm the evening before, and my decision making and checking was really not up to much. Possibly the biggest danger was still the drive. But it is interesting to reflect on how awake you can get when you really need to be. I was still pretty wired for the drive back to Inverness, and when I unwrapped a pack of Tunnock's Caramel Wafers on Christmas morning last week (a rare treat in New Zealand) it was interesting to go through a whole range of emotions as a result of a chocolate bar....

b
Post edited at 23:39
mypyrex - on 05 Jan 2018
In reply to Trangia:

What's a map ;o)
Seriously, many years ago I used to fly a Tiger Moth. On the way back to my home airfield one day I had to turn the map over. As I did so it got caught by the slipstream and blew out of the cockpit.

Fortunately the visibility was good and I knew where I was. I do still wonder if anybody saw this map fluttering down from the heavens and what went through their mind.
BobSlocum - on 06 Jan 2018
In reply to ben b:

Keen to hear how you navigated out of a Cairngorm blizzard using the Tunnock's...
Trangia on 06 Jan 2018
In reply:

No accurate map involved, but I love the explorer and mountaineer Bill Tilman's famous quote.

"I can honestly say that I have never been lost; just mightily confused for several days"
Toerag - on 08 Jan 2018
In reply to jonnie3430:

> Forgot Google maps on their phone too?

If you haven't pre-cached the map beforehand and don't have data signal you don't have googlemaps. Even if you do cache the maps you don't get the satellite layer which is the one you actually want in most wild terrain.

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