UKC

/ Hill and moorland leader training

Please Register as a New User in order to reply to this topic.
mgdaviso - on 22 Aug 2018

ok, so I'm keeping this deliberately vague for various reasons as I don't want to identify any parties invloved....  for context, I'm a Mountain Leader (Summer) and my "friend" has attended a training course for their Hill and moorland leader award earlier this year.  We were having a discussion about it the other night and some of these things came up:  the provider stated:

You cannot have a rucksack that has side pockets.

You cannot be credible unless you are wearing boots that cost at least £200.

You have to have this type of whistle.

You have to be able to sustain 4km an hour over all terrain for 8 hours a day.

Lunch break should be 2 minutes maxmimum.

If you carry a phone, you have to have two spare batteries for it.

The provider seems to have been ripping into the candidates about their kit and driving them unecessarilly hard physically.  There was some other stuff that went on that I'm not going to go into as it could identify persons involved, but it just doesn't sit right with me.

My friend spent money on a compass and headtorch as part of the equipment list only to turn up and be told they were not the right ones so rightly, they are a bit pissed off and have come away from the course rather demoralised.

so my question for the masses is: are there any providers on here who will agree or disagree with what has gone on here?

Wulfrunian - on 22 Aug 2018
In reply to mgdaviso:

The provider sounds bang out of order. I'd be on the phone to Mountain Training if I was your friend.

Welsh Kate - on 22 Aug 2018
In reply to mgdaviso:

I'm not an MT course provider, like you I''m a summer ML, but this sounds to me like complete and utter b******ks (is that the right number of asterisks?!)

In their (presumably sub £200 boots), I'd be contacting Mountain Training with some robust feedback.

annieman - on 22 Aug 2018
In reply to mgdaviso:

I suggest that your "friend" asks this provider for clarifications, in writing, on these issues. I doubt if there is anything in the Kit list other than the person needs to be able to meet a certain level of competance and to carry the appropriate equipment. Rucksack - personal choice, Whistle - some are better than others, Boots need to be suitable for the terrain AND comfortable, 4kph x 8 = 32km that sounds like a Scottish hill day (more like over 10 or 12 hours), Lunchbreak depends on the situation, nice day then take the time to enjoy it. If its wet then take long enough to refuel, it is important, 2 mins is not enough time for a pee, Turn the phone onto Airplane mode and it'll last all day. Compass and head torches, on "training" I take time to discuss the pros and cons of the variety that are available.

Download the candidate handbook

Things to consider

1) is your friend winding you up?

2) use the complaints procedure in the handbook

3) find another provider for assessment

 

jezb1 - on 22 Aug 2018
In reply to mgdaviso:

> You cannot have a rucksack that has side pockets.

Well you don't want to look D of E

> You cannot be credible unless you are wearing boots that cost at least £200.

Sounds cheap

> You have to have this type of whistle.

Bet it was a Fox 40

> You have to be able to sustain 4km an hour over all terrain for 8 hours a day.

Meh, that's SF pace, I'm sure we can beat that ;)

> Lunch break should be 2 minutes maxmimum.

Lunch is for wimps

> If you carry a phone, you have to have two spare batteries for it.

That's what Sherpas are for

 

All of the above sounds balls to me, but sometimes things get mixed up second hand. Your mate is best off discussing this with the provider and if the discussion isn't satisfactory they should get in touch with Mountain Training directly - they're super helpful. 

(I'm an ML provider)

 

profitofdoom on 22 Aug 2018
In reply to Welsh Kate:

> I'm not an MT course provider, like you I''m a summer ML, but this sounds to me like complete and utter b******ks (is that the right number of asterisks?!)

One asterisk short!

Though secondhand, the OP's report sounds like b*****ks to me too (especially 'boots that cost at least £200', and the 2-minute maximum lunch break)

Paul at work - on 22 Aug 2018
In reply to mgdaviso:

Nearly all of that is rubbish as far as I'm concerned as a Hill and Moorland Leader provider. I suggest that your 'friend' doesn't go back to that provider for assessment.

lpretro1 on 22 Aug 2018
In reply to mgdaviso:

I'd have a hard job taking 2 spare batteries for my phone - its a built in battery! This all sounds complete tosh

Bulls Crack - on 23 Aug 2018
In reply to mgdaviso:

Hill and moorland training? Is a distinction made in the training?  Does it cover heathland and downland? (Otherwise you wouldn't be able to cover all open access areas!)

Post edited at 08:12
Clint86 - on 23 Aug 2018
In reply to mgdaviso:

Interesting thread.

Toerag - on 23 Aug 2018
In reply to Bulls Crack:

It's anything 'properly off road' below ML-type ground. You need it or equivalent standard knowledge for what the Scout organisation call 'terrain 1'. You need ML or equivalent for 'terrain 2'

Terrain One describes terrain which meets all of the following criteria:

a. Meets any of the following criteria:

? is below 800 metres but more than 500 metres above sea level or;

? is more than 30 minutes but less than three hours travelling time from a road which can take an ordinary road-going ambulance or a building which is occupied (such as a farm) or another means of calling help (such as a telephone box). and contains no element of mountainous steep ground (routes or areas where the average person would need to regularly use their hands at least for balance if not for actual progress. This does not stop people from using their hands as an aid to confidence.) and 
b. Is not a road, or path adjacent to a road, on which you would expect to see traffic. 
and 
c. Is not Terrain Two as defined by Rule 9.30. 


Terrain Two describes terrain which meets all of the following criteria: 
a. Meets any of the following criteria:

? is over 800 metres above sea level or;

? lies more than three hours travelling time from a road which can take an ordinary road-going ambulance or a building which is occupied (such as a farm) or another means of calling help (such as a telephone box),

or:

? contains an element of mountainous steep ground (routes or areas where the average person would need to regularly use their hands at least for balance if not for actual progress. This excludes climbing activities but may include areas where ropes are used for confidence and security.)

and 
b.  Is not a road, or path adjacent to a road, on which you would expect to see traffic. 

mgdaviso - on 23 Aug 2018

thanks for the responses... of course some things can get muddied second hand, hence why I didn't go flying off to Mountain training to organise a moderation visit... I've since spoken with friend again and they state they will be going back to the provider for assessment as "better the devil you know" rather than someone they don't.  My experience of Outdoor providers have all been pretty positive as outdoor people do tend to be pretty laid back and easy-going, hence why I thought it an odd experience for them.  The thing that disappoints me is that this person has a) come away with a negative view and b) they have been slightly discouraged by the experience.  I guess we'll have to see when the assessment comes around.  Thanks for the input folks.

 


Please Register as a New User in order to reply to this topic.