UKC

How many people take their dogs with them on a winter hill/mountain walk?

The sort of walk where you need crampons and ice axe (and maybe goggles) but you're not doing any technical climbing

Like all of these things.......it depends. Depends on the dog, the weather, the conditions. And I also think you’ve got to be prepared to change your plans if conditions or the weather changes. I’ve said this before here - a dog can’t make a decision to back off, so you have to be prepared to compromise for him. Having said that, mine loves a big day out in the snow, but I know both of our limits.

We don't take the dog if we have to use crampons much (although they are in the bag). Otherwise we have had great days in the hills although the last few years have been a bit thin when we have been out. Some care needed with the dogs balling up with snow and we do take a small group shelter rather than bivi bags just in case as well as some dog food and a coat for the beasty.

I take mine if it's not going to be too long a walk. Though she is a whippet and therefore is basically a ball of clothing springing through the snow like a deer.

He's a lab so doesn't feel the cold in coolish conditions, haven't noticed snow balling in his paws but have only done low level snowy walks with him.

Interested in how they cope in icy conditions that require crampons, but not steep. Frozen path for example. On low level stuff I find he makes his way across, quite amazing really, but not been in places where I require crampons. 

What about neve?

I did (last dog) and do (current dog).

Carry a good dog coat and two person storm shelter rather than bivi bag.

Dog wears a harness. Has been handy extracting from snow filled burns and hollows. 

Wouldn't like to do find us with a lot of terrain needing crampons. On a rare occasion I had to pull dog up frozen slope though not far and not steep. Not a great experience but the rest of the walk fine.

I’ve taken both collies with snow underfoot. I always pick an easyish route with good escape options so you don’t get stuck with a dog on technical ground eg sharp edge.

Dont be afraid to turn back. If you’re in your full clobber with goggles etc, perhaps the dogs not enjoying it?

The most extreme that I’ve done with a dog and wearing crampons is the descent from Eel Crag to Sail on the coledale horseshoe. Here my daughter led with a safety rope. When she stopped and was safe, the dog followed with a karabiner from collar to rope. Worked well. A harness would be even better for this.

I forgot to say - a bit of old tight leg to keep the ears down if windy does a good job.

but I love it when his ear flaps in the wind...! He seems to love it

Unlikely to be out in serious whiteout blizzard style conditions, and I'd happily turn back if it got dodgy (I'm generally quite risk adverse), but looking for a bit of a view on what others have done

He's never worn a harness and I've rarely found this to be a problem. He's pretty heavy (not fat, he's just big, about 35kg) so lifting him isn't the easiest thing in the world

Our German Pointer comes out with us on winter walks, wearing a ruffwear harness so if she needs to be lifted it's easier. If crampons are needed we back off because it's not fair to put her in that situation, and at 25kg she's a big lump to haul. The only time we've run into problems was on Glaramara a couple of winters ago, but retracing steps sorted things. She *loves* a bit (okay, a lot) of snow.

Excuse the massive URL but here's a shot of her in flight just before Christmas up on the side of Gimmer: https://scontent-lht6-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/5cfd33d6e520d5888cdccc43e2a656e...

Obligatory plug for Baldric's @instagram page...

https://www.instagram.com/baldricwonderdog

Without a doubt one of the more hardcore hounds on the planet.

Been winter mountaineering and easy climbing with my Lakeland terrier for 7 years now , just rope him up and off we go . Most times we camp on the tops in sub zero temperatures, he sleeps in my bag with me ,  he loves it .

Good video of him On YouTube, dave king ... lords rake snow climb 

Love that pic, that's exactly what I want to be doing!

youtube.com/watch?v=oLZ4QiYRnrw&

My dog has 4 sets of crampons - they are called claws, and I've seen her use them to good effect on steep ground.

She's a border collie x retriever and has been out with me in  -8 deg C quite happily.  What she didn't like though was here 1st encounter with heavy hail!!

Bear in mind that wind blown snow is much much worse at dog height than your head height and make allowance.  IE you might be doing OK but need to turn back for the dog's sake.

I had my collie on a multi day ski tour some years ago and had to de-ice her eye / face a number of times using my breath/lips to melt the ice: couldn't just pull it off!

If overnighting be prepared to share your pit, it is only fair

Dogs often try and help you dig snow holes but aren't really much help...they just go down so far, then curl up in their little hole whilst you slave for a couple of hours making a palace for them.  Seems fair enough I guess

Other folk have mentioned a bothy bag....essential kit.  If camping make sure your tent has minimal wind flap.  My dog suffered very much one night with the noise driving her demented [literally; crazed look, eyes 'gone',] had to bail out in the dark/blizzard, and she wouldn't camp again for years.

Dogs claws work very well up hill, they are unlikely to have issues unless really icy.  However, down hill is a different matter.  Mine liked to tuck right behind  my legs on the steep downs.  Not good as she threatened to knock me over, or I was in danger of putting a crampon through her paws.  [carry a dog first aid kit].

Think very carefully about stream crossings.  As an inexperienced pup she once threw herself into a river, not fancying the swinging, rickity bridge.  She was swept downstream a bit but got across.  Obviously soaking wet: not good in the middle of winter and a snow hole night ahead!  We both learned from that one.  Plan for bridges on your route and put dog on lead in good time.  Especially labs who love water !  Now is not the time.

Train dog to be carried draped over your shoulders.....stream crossings where you need to carry the dog, deer fences to cross etc, and if injured [dump the contents of your sack, 'cept what you both need to get off the hill].  Dogs love to play in the snow but recognise when this isn't a good thing and bring dog to heel / be calm.

Dog needs to ignore livestock and especially deer and mountain hares.  I have known dogs disappear for hours after deer.  Some never come back, or are lost for weeks.  If you loose contact in poor weather etc you have to rely on the dog finding you, which if the wind is wrong they may not be able to do.  Prior training essential!

It is very rewarding going off in winter with your hound, but it puts a lot of responsibility on you, perhaps literally on your shoulders....

Loving the responses here, thanks

Any recommendations on currently available and cost effective harnesses? I looked at the Julius K9 stuff but wasn't convinced it would be much good for lifting 35kg of dog...

He's not had one before, always used a collar, but I can see the benefit in certain situations

We like the red Ruffwear one for our fiend.

Do you know which exact model it is? There was a doubleback or something similar but it was pricey. Webmaster looks OK, still more than I would like to pay though... Wasn't sure how robust it would be for lifting a big dog though

Ours is a Webmaster. Still going strong after four years in all weathers. Yeah, quite pricy, but we've found that with some of this stuff you seem to get what you pay for. 

Was this question sparked by the lost collie in Glen Etive?

No. Planning a winter skills course and thinking about using the skills on a walk with my dog

got a link to the story? Hadn't heard about that

One thing which I don't feel I know anywhere near enough about is what to do if I do need to rescue my injured dog whilst out in the hills - you've reminded me to rectify this. Even simple things like ordering some vetroll for the first aid kit so she can be bandaged if necessary.

Google 'Lost collie Meg' if you want a tragic story. Happened on Beinn Sgulaird (munro down Glen Etive / Glen Crenan.

As long as it's on a lead then yeah, why not. 

Years ago went up a hard neve'd up Ben Vane taking our family dog Honey. It was a skating rink and our route up was basically a grade 1 snow slope all the way to the summit. A slip would've been tragic for anybody but she managed it without flinching. Near the top there was a spring with a plunge pool and she was straight into it, swimming around in -10 conditions. 

Dogs are harder than us.

Yeah, they're massively hard. Ours is a black lab so has a warm and waterproof coat already. He's slept out with me in below-0 conditions (all liquid items froze heavily) and was the first time he actually bothered to sleep on a mat, usualy straight on the floor

I think his claws might give him grip up the hill, it's the downhill bit and stopping a slip that I was worried about. I've seen him bambi his way across ice before, which is both amusing and impressive, but only on the flat

He's usually off the lead in the hills (on the usual basis of no sheep, scared people, cliff etc), but for something like this I would probably put him on lead if it was a bit dodgy - I usually walk him with lead that goes round my waist, I prefer handsfree walking. If I want a bit more length I clip his lead to my riggers belt