UKC

I was up The Ben yesterday and as usual the shelter is a mess... empty bottles, half eaten sandwiches/crisps and rubbish left inside. There is even an old antique style chair with material cushioning which is soaked through and will just go mouldy!!!

Why does this keep happening?

Is there anything we can do to prevent it happening?

Sorry for the rant, but so sick of this.

Euge

P.S.  yes... I did bring a bag full of rubbish down with me before someone brings that up

1. A significant proportion of the people who head up the Ben in summer will have little or no experience of mountain environments.  So they treat it like the urban environment they're familiar with where littering is common.

2. Broken Windows Theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory) - visible signs of anti-social behaviour (e.g littering) are taken by some people as permission to engage in the same antisocial behaviour because they see it as being normalised. So more litter/trash.

3. GOTO 1

In other words, destination tourism and charity challenges inevitably reduce everything to a litter-strewn dump. E.g. the Fairy Pools on Skye, Wasdale village green, Cat Bells, Sandwood Bay.

Unfortunately, this happens everywhere.

Many years ago (20+) I, a mate and two of our kids did the Ben. The kids amused themselves by making up a variation of the old Lloyd Grossman show - 'Through the Keyhole'. Their line was, "Who would drop a piece of litter like this?", and unfortunately there was enough to keep them going pretty much all the way to the top.

I live fairly close to football pitches that are used on Sundays. Even when dustbins are placed at both ends of the half way line, rubbish is still all over the place.

Better education might help. I'm not having a go at schools - they have a tough enough job, but a more general push. However, I still think many will take no notice - the fact that some can eat or drink something and then just throw the container away indicates they have little respect for the environment and little consideration for others.

One glimmer of hope, and its just a glimmer, is that the recent media coverage of the impact of plastic in the environment might make some think more, but I'm not holding my breath.

Dave

Education? Who needs to be taught that dropping litter is unsightly, unnecessary and just plain antisocial? The problem is that they just don't flippin' CARE! Somehow we need to persuade these brats that there is life outside their precious little me-bubbles. I've no idea how we might do it, and I've an awful feeling it's no longer possible to turn the tide; we've just gone too far.

[Yes, I've reached that age. And no, I'm not getting at you, Dave: I agree with everything else you say, and I love your children's response to the problem].

I just saw some grown-up bloke the other day in Kirriemuir beside a lovely park drink a plastic bottle of some juice or other and eat a sandwich, before I could open and close my mouth he took it all and flung it into the garden of the church. Honestly???? There were bins everywhere. 

It's not the answer, I know, because it's reactive rather than preventative, but until society can come up with a solution...

https://www.facebook.com/Real3Peaks/ 

It's my hope that in the same way as caving and outdoor climbing seem to be diminishing in popularity and mountain bikers seem to prefer to stick to manmade trails, hill walking will also diminish as an activity as the mobile-phone generation grows up and grows fatter.

I walked alongside a road in Assynt, of all places, picking up cans, sandwich packets, chocolate wrappers and a newspaper dismembered by the wind (I assume) and spread over half a mile of grass verge. And another time there was a substantial quantity of rubbish fly-tipped into the strath from a layby in the middle of nowhere. This was further from any human habitation than it was from a recycling centre!

That's funny, I had the opposite impression, just anecdotally. What makes you say that? 

Not quite the same but

At my office there's a recycling bin for documents & other paper and a waste bin next to each other. There are plastic recycling bins in the staff kitchen. A fully grown up colleague whose desk is next to the bins, having just finished lunch, stretched over and shoved his rubbish, including a plastic bottle, into the paper recycling bin!

WTF!

It's the new sport/outdoor activity. Many people often spend more time clearing up other people's sh1t and dog sh1t, or fixing path drains, than actually climbing or enjoying mountains for themselves. There is no option otherwise it will get a lot worse. Clean environments stay clean.

It does speak volumes for the state of our me me me disrespectful society.

DC

Would a large notice at the bottom of the tourist track help? Similarly, large notices fastened to the sides of the summit emergency shelter? (I wouldn't want to stick a big sign up there, but the sheter is already there.) The notices could ask people to help keep the Ben beautiful by carrying down more rubbish than they take up. Similar notices at other honeyspots would be good. Possibly the sort of thing "mend our mountains" or the BMC could look at doing.

Certainly asking every climber/walker to take a rubbish bag and a bracken stick would be far more use than building stone staircases.

Not quite the same either, but I have just returned from my nearest bottle bank. It was half full, yet, at its foot there was a plastic bag crammed with wine bottles. Grrr!

Steeling myself for the extra effort involved I shoved them in too along with mine. 

I agree, education shouldn't be needed.

For many it is almost automatic not to drop litter and to take rubbish home. Unfortunately, for others it is just as automatic to throw away anything they don't want.

Your suggestion of people in their 'me' bubble could easily be a factor – so self absorbed they don't notice the rubbish that other, similarly minded people have dropped, so they don't even think throwing their own rubbish away is a problem.

Dave

Every school everywhere will nag the children not to drop litter.  The only actually effective strategy was a school I worked in many years ago which had all the form groups on a rota and provided gloves and black bags and sent the children out on the field to clean up after themselves.  Even then there was still some litter to pick.  I don't know if it would be allowed these days as too many heads care too much about the wingeing parents.  

You are absolutely correct, with the broken windows theory. As a hut warden for a hut that was let out to all sorts of groups, I found that a tidy hut was generally left tidy by people, and stayed that way for quite a while. Once the place got messy it was remarkable how quickly it went downhill.

How about some serious fines for littering, that would make people stand up and take notice. I really think that if you throw litter out of a car window for example then your vehicle should be confiscated. One or two headlines in the tabloids that this had happened would certainly make people think, and not risk it.

No litter in Singapore because the fines for it are so high.

Less draconian, but there was a proposal in a recent Welsh document that would make a lot of sense:

Make it an offence for the registered keeper of a vehicle to allow rubbish to be thrown out of the window.

That way there's no need to prove the identity of the individual chucking the rubbish out to prosecute - fixed penalties could be issued like speeding tickets etc. on the strength of photographic & video evidence alone.  Lets have an advertising campaign to remind everyone that it's unacceptable, and publicise an email address or a website where you can submit dashcam footage of offenders to be considered for a special prize.  The whole thing can fund itself out of the fines the way some speed cameras do.

No, the entire family down to 8 generations should be burnt at the stake*. Then win-win, the litter they dropped can be burnt (burned?) with them

*irony (or something)

Good job picking up the rubbish. 

My way of dealing this? Try not to leave any trace*, pick up any I see and forget about that as soon as possible. I am no longer angry at whoever tipped - I know I am doing the right thing and that's all what matters to me. 

* - tiredness or accidents happen, so I can't say I have never tipped - could have happened unintentionally! I once chased a paper ticket in the deck of a ferry and apparently it looked like a suicide mission. I probably should have been more careful... 

There are fines for littering... they just aren't enforced!!!