UKC

Taking my five year old camping in Ogwen next week and am contemplating how wise it might be to take him up the north ridge. 

I've scrambled up it a number of times but always by the most interesting/difficult line. Subsequently, I've no experience of how easy it is to skirt the difficulties. Also, the last time I went up it was probably 6 or 7 years ago so my memory probably isn't the best on which to make a judgement. What are people's thoughts? He does a lot of walking, 3 or 4 miles. Has been up Win Hill and we do a lot of scrambling round Higgar Tor and Stanage.

Any alternatives still with a bit of scrambling interest but at a safer end of the spectrum? I seem to remember the walk up Y Gribin having a bit of easy scrambling?

Thanks 

Others may disagree with me, but personally I wouldn't do it - child a bit too young, walk/ scramble a bit too exposed

I think there are a lot of options on the normal path near the top for a bit of fun.  No need to commit to the ridge 

I took my nephews aged 6 and 8 at the time up Tryfan from idwal cottage and then up the s ridge. We came down via cwm Tryfan. It was great weather and they thoroughly enjoyed it and were keen to do more in the hills. They are both very outdoorsy and used to walking. The n ridge is not so easy to escape from in the event of poor weather/problem/the unpredictability of children. The choice is ultimately yours but so is the responsibility. 

James 

I took my (then) 6 and 8yr olds up Little and North gullies topping out at Adam and Eve..  meant avoiding the crowds on the North Ridge... did use a rope on the tricky sections, which are short and easy to body belay from above... good fun... they don't seem to get bored when scrambling but walking gets tricky to motivate within an hour!

I hadn't thought of the S ridge actually. Thinking about it now that is a much more sensible option.

tl;dr: done it 3 times, each time something happened that would have been terrible / dangerous with a 5 year old.

I've done Tryfan North Ridge 3 times, twice with one other person and once on my own - I don't know exactly what 5 year olds are like but my instinct is that it's probably too difficult and would be dangerous.

The first time I went up me and my mate both got stuck in different places where we couldn't see each other and had to shout to find each other and down climb, and he banged his head climbing up something and it bled a bit and ruined his day.

The second time I had to give my wife a leg up something she couldn't quite reach up herself (not recommended I think!) - all was fine in the end though on that trip.

The third time on my own I got completely stuck in fog and wind and couldn't see anything and felt like I was on the edge of a cliff, had to try climbing up something three different ways until I eventually found a way which didn't feel like full on free solo climbing above my grade and very exposed! That was really scary but again all was fine in the end.

My dad took me up when I was 6 and it instilled a love of mountains and climbing in me that I've never been able to shake. There's plenty of easier options, just take your time and scope out sections of the route before committing to them. A short rope would be a useful thing to have just in case, but you probably wouldn't use it. 

Me and my friend took his 7 year old up cyfrwy arete last year (on a rope of course) and he loved it.

They may well be able to do all the individual parts but linking them all together may be a bit tiring for a youngster of that age and there’s no easy way back if you get to that point.

If you are asking then you already have your answer. 

As if you would even contemplate taking your five year old child up a route based on the advice of strangers! 

Recce it yourself and make an informed decision. Anything else is neglect. 

Leo Houlding recently took his 7 and 3 year old up the N Ridge of the Piz Badile

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cumbria-53652968

My neighbour Dave recently went up Tryfan but didn't take his young son up with him. Mind you, Dave isn't really comparable with Leo so I don't know why I'm telling you this...

I was thinking of doing pretty much the exact same thing next week with my five year old daughter. Driving over from Sheffield. Haven’t done it for years but pretty happy to take her up on a short rope where necessary. She’s a good climber and sensible. Provisos: only on a good weather day with a good forecast ; be ready to change plans or turn back etc. Usual responsible parent stuff. If you do it, best of luck. At the moment I can’t find a campsite, so it may be academic....

Yeah I'd do the South Ridge. For a start you have the llyn they'll like, and the ridge can be as hard or as easy as you want. Certainly more avoidable.

My daughters 4 (5 in Nov.)  and I'd not take her. 

But as ever let them be the boss when hiking, go as slow as they want and let them play and enjoy it. If that's just the llyn then so be it.

It depends on the child - they are very variable!

If you've got the sort that can do it then I have two recommendations:

(1) Carry 5 times as many snacks as you think necessary

(2) Feed child at least every 30 minutes preferably more often

(3 suppl.) If there is danger of cold and wet carry an extra extra layer

Yeah of course, I meant not North Ridge though, but if experienced then I'd change that. I hike a bit with my daughter but it takes hours. She's done some pretty good scrambles but just picks her own route.

Although unlikely, my only issue would be if something happened to you leaving both of you at risk. 

How much walking / scrambling have they done ? if they've done a bit and you are happy to closely follow on any steeper steps, there is absolutely no reason not to do it (weather permitting, obviously).  The only potential difficulty on the N Ridge for a 5 year old is its length.

If you have the general experience and competence in short roping-type rope tricks (which will be far easier with a five year old than with an adult), then that seems like it might be a sensible way forward? You never know, you might instill a lifelong enthusiasm if he enjoys it.

Too young in.my view....lots of other really good options round there with a 5 year old! One slip for you and there is serious bother.....!

Every child is different and for the majority I would say its not suitable.

However that said my parents took me up Jack's Rake aged 6 and having as an adult repeated that and done several ascents of Tryfan I would say the latter is both easier and less committing.

My parents aren't climbers but keen hill walkers and by 4 I was doing 10+ miles on The Peak every weekend, I loved walks that involved scrambling and dad was and excellent spotter. 

No experience with children but scrambling up Moel Siabod is really fun and definitely more optional and easy to retreat than Tryfan so might be an good option to see he if enjoys it.

Plus the cafe nearby is great   

I took our five year old up the North Ridge many years ago with my brother in law and his seven year old.

I think that the crux of the issue is that the leader must be competent in that terrain and perhaps have done it several times to gain knowledge of the route and the alternatives, plus pick a good day. 
The kids coped fine on the way up and found their way with guidance. 
Coming down the south ridge was hairy as the wind got up and coupled with their fatigue they needed roping up.

This!

I recently repeated coming up the 'Easy Way Down' at Wintours with #2, I did it with child # 1 a couple of years back.  Despite child #2 being far more serious and less flighty that #1. I was struck by how much less attention they paid to me when I put on the serious voice and said "You need to listen carefully here and do as I tell you".   They were so eager to tell me about everything that was going on in their head that some of the important safety stuff just bounced off of them.  At Wintours managing a couple of awkward steps unroped and the bit at the top on a rope it was fine,...but sustained easy but potentially lethal terrain like Tryfan?  I think I will leave that a couple of years.

We took our eldest up Jack's Rake at 4 (helmeted and full body harness) with a 1 year old on my back.  At the Crux the youngest was roped up and crawled easily up it as I thought the risk of taking him on my back was unjustified.  We did it during a warm and dry spell and it was wonderful.  Near the top after the scrambling the oldest said "Take care now daddy as you are unroped ..."

(My wife and 2 other adults were in the party.)  The eldest had done Swirral Edge without difficulty as a toddler, carried to the beginning of the rock crest and then roped.  Continuously giving us a commentary as he came to each obstacle

Even so, I think the Tryfan N ridge is quite a serious undertaking so the weather and all other things should be favourable, including an early start before I would have considered taking a small person up

My parents took me up Heather Terrace then the South Ridge shortly before I was 4 - I think that's when I caught the climbing bug - still got it 60 years later. https://www.ukclimbing.com/user/profile.php?id=3377#&gid=1&pid=1 

Why Tryfan specifically? 

I’m sure lots of people can take a 5yo up and down safely, particularly with good planning and a careful eye on the forecast.  How much the kid would enjoy it is a different question.  
 
If you want to do it because your son would particularly enjoy Tryfan, and you’re confident he can handle it then do it.  If you want to do Tryfan again, and you think it’s safe enough that there’s no reason why a 5 year old should stop you doing that then fine.  If you want to do because you think it will be cool to say that your son walked up  Tryfan when he was 5 then I’d find something else to do.

I wouldn’t do it.  I’d wait until I was sure that they’d love it rather than just being able to do it. A 5 year old won’t be able to distinguish between the “achievement” of Tryfan and a less serious undertaking. Kids go from having the time of their life to hating every minute of a walk in an instant, and I wouldn’t want to be on an exposed ridge when that happens.  I’m not sure that a lifelong love of the outdoors can really be instilled in someone by a single experience at such a young age but a negative experience is far more likely to put them off.

I'm not sure of a 5 year old not being able to distinguish.  The smiles on the face of our 4 year old as we got higher and higher on Jack's Rake had to be seen to be believed.  He was really proud afterwards and kept warning me to be careful of the "cravasses" (sic) on the path on the way down as if he was looking after my safety

How about a walk round the slate quarries? Lots of tunnels and places to be explored. Look up Snakes and Ladders for ideas. Hope that helps. 

Best advice in this thread, as every child is different, only you know your son and his capabilities.

Have a look at crib lem or people may not agree with me here but crib goch because crib goch isn’t to technical but I wouldn’t recommend Tryfan because the north tower

And your experience in the hills with a five year old is:???

Same for me, my dad took me to north Wales when i was 6. Snowdon horseshoe one day then Tryfan north ridge the next day. Haven't looked back since!

You don’t have to answer, but I’m really interested in what your mind set was at the time taking a 1 yr old up on your back?

I led my wife up there 5 months pregnant and still cringe about that decision to this day.

Well I seen kids aged 7 do crib goch easy plus snowdon was my first mountain I done it when I was 8 I’m almost 15 at the moment so I can say off experience 

I see!

But you have NO experience of what some else's child is capable of - do you?  Or have you direct experience of what Ralphio's child is capable of?

Well it’s easier than tryfan

Well nor does anybody else on this thread, but we’ve all stuck our oars in (as invited to).  Why have you singled one person out? I can’t see why his response is more objectionable than any of the others.

I think most people think as crib goch as “dangerous “ when the actual fact is crib goch has basic scrambling the ridge is very exposed but as long as the parent kept an eye on the child then they should be fine but on tryfan north ridge the tower ik for a fact the 5 years old would have to be lift up loads of times when on crib goch the only part I can think of what he might need help on is the 2nd pinacle and maybe the down climb on the 3rd

That's a cracker of a family photo

I

He was most likely a little older than 1 - my wife tells me that the occasion with the eldest on his own was at 3 and a half and that on the occasion we all did it the youngest might have been nearly two and the eldest about 5.  

I was entirely confident about the oldest on both occasions and as for the youngest I took things very carefully and slowly and we already planned that I wouldn't do the trickiest bit carrying him.   His head was protected by a helmet at all times and we took the crux cautiously with my wife coming up behind him - the other two adults in the party scrambled up first just before I came up with the rope for the 2 youngsters.   It all went like clockwork but my mind was fully occupied by looking for hazards and trying to minimise or avoid them so although I can remember feeling concerned there wasn't much mental space left to overworry.  The day was enjoyed by all of us and that included the couple with us, one of whom I've done some rock climbing with and the other who had no experience of scrambling at all.  The day was perfect, still and warm and the rock bone dry throughout.  The only unfortunate thing was passing a burst sheep that had fallen on to the section above the crux but we didn't dwell on that either.

I know Jack's rake very very well indeed and this was not a hasty expedition, and neither was the earlier one.

hope that answers your question in some way.

I knew it well 20 years ago when I took the mrs up. No issues whatsoever but wouldn’t do it now with a youngster or a pregnant woman. Probably an age thing. Wasn’t judging you by the way 

Most people appear to recommend caution and several suggested its down to the parents own experience and their own knowledge of the child.  

Trangia made it quite clear:-  "Best advice in this thread, as every child is different, only you know your son and his capabilities"

Most of the posters have children.  Aonach Eagach is not much older than a child himself - at 15 years and is unlikely to have much practical knowledge of 5 year olds and their capabilities or otherwise.

Thanks - my earliest memories - or do I just remember being told about it?

Having taken my kids multipitch climbing from them being quite young, there a few things that, for me, are prerequisites for doing this:

1. Always having a second competent adult with me (my wife in my case);

2. Putting considerable planning time into any route to consider all manner of calamities, s#itstorms and escape plans;

3.  Accepting full responsibility for everyone's safety on the day and being totally willing to change our plan for a lesser objective if it's required.

These experiences tend towards type 2 fun for me (due to constant overthink) but we have had some really memorable days.

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/news/lnk.php?i=23322&utm_campaign=ukh_202...