UKC

Packaging

I recently took delivery of some "smol" fabric conditioner. All very right on, reusable this and that, not tested on animals, yadda yadda.

This arrived packaged in an inordinate amount of cardboard which could be replaced by a thin poly bag.

My bin can't cope with the amount of cardboard that arrives, the council don't collect it. So I either drive to the tip to get rid of it (40 mins) or burn it.

Considering that the package occupies unneeded volume in delivery too, I suspect a couple of games of plastic to landfill is the preferred option.

Thoughts? 

Your circumstances may not match those of the wider population.

Many people have a paper recycle bin, that is emptied frequently. For those, the benefits of cardboard outweigh plastic. As long as there are enough people recycling, it will offset edge cases such as yours.

<Pedantry> You cant put it into a thin poly bag and post it, in case it gets squashed.

Depending on how much land you have, could you compost it? Once it's wet it should shrink a lot. 

This is nonsense, think of the pressures a pop bottle can withstand. They are frequently used as bodge pressure vessels for tyre seating and inflation. A simple address sticker on the bottle would do. 

Its complicated..... life cycle assessment will tell you plastic is better (as less CO2) however this completely ignores the issues of non biodegradable plastics buggering up the environment. The 'environmental impact' is often viewed only through the lens of carbon where infact there are many 'environmental' issues which may adversely impact each other. The more modern circular economy approach tries to untangle this.

Obviously the correct approach would be access and use of local recycling facilities...

My local supermarket for instance now takes most things, even soft plastics. I'm buggered if I know what they do with it but I hardly have anything in my bin now.

Your council doesn't collect cardboard?  I am genuinely shocked.  I thought that was UK wide now.

Composting it is probably the best bet.  Second will be building up enough to make a run to the tip worthwhile (or combining that trip with another).  If neither of those work, I would hazard a guess that burning it is better than putting it into landfill, because at least when you burn it all you produce is CO2.  Landfill is likely to break it down to methane which has a far higher GWP.

Yes, they should minimise the amount of cardboard used (they certainly do with their dishwasher tablets, which we use and highly recommend).  But even quite a bit of cardboard is, on the whole, probably better than some more plastic.

Have you tried Splosh? They send tablets through the post, cardboard box like a dvd box, postage free. 

Don't smol allow you to return the bottles, once rinsed out and get them refilled.  Surely you would keep the box for the return.

Unlike a fizzy drink, even a "green" fabric conditioner will be bad if it leaks. So needs to be packaged well to stop this. Imagine the complaints if people received letters covered in the stuff .

Lastly take a new unopened 2L fizzy drinks bottle into your kitchen. Shake for a few hours then drop it from about 2m. Let me know what happens 😂

It bounces. What's your point?

This is the best bet if it's not treated/coated packaging. It's good for your compost to have card added to it as well; I often chuck egg cartons and brown card in my compost bin. 

"Oxygen-starved ‘anaerobic’ conditions enable harmful microbes to thrive – the same microbes responsible for creating the unpleasant smells that arise from such putrid conditions. Fresh materials are mostly 'greens' which have a high nitrogen content, so mixing in more carbon-rich 'browns' will help solve the problem."

If it lands right this. Maybe stone floor be better.  Had it happen my self once.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en...

The correct UKC answer is- you don’t need fabric conditioner 😉

How about going even more eco friendly and doing away with fabric conditioner altogether? 

More to your point, have you seen how parcels are handled during sorting/transport/delivery? I'm sure a professional grade rugby ball gets an easier life than a parcel in our delivery system. Just a thin poly bag? I can't imagine it making it out of the warehouse. 

Faulty, they get treated far worse than that.

Mute point anyway. For royal fail at least, has to be in a leak proof inner such as a plastic bag and a leak proof outer

This. On carbon the plastic will be better, so buy switching to card the plastic filled fish will have warmer seas to swim in..

The other classic here would be glass packaging, which had been routinely demonstrated to have a higher CO2 impact than plastic, unless on a very localised supply and reuse model

That's assuming the OP's black bag waste is landfilled and not incinerated.  Many people complain about landfill without realising that their waste is incinerated. People here buy biodegradeable stuff 'because it breaks down in landfill', yet all our waste is baled and sent to Sweden for incineration.

It'sYOUR council, moaning on UKC is pointless. Complain and if they do nothing dump it on their doorstep. They will enjoy the publicity when they take you to court.

I was wondering a similar point at christmas after receiving a box of 4 (very tasty) chocolate carabiners which were packed surrounded by shredded card in a very over sized box with a supposedly biodegradable plastic window, inside another even more over sized cardboard box and held in place with another cardboard fixture.

The company claims that all the packaging in biodegradable but still, all this for 4 chocolate "carabiners" with a combined weight of around 150g. Not sure how they can claim any green credentials with a straight face.

And to top it off one of the items was broken, so the packaging didn't work.

150g is very light. Were they fully rated?

Is this going to lead to a new climbing expression 'That's about as much use as a chocolate carabiner!' 😃

Here's a thought. If you care about the environment and your recycling bin then stop buying so much stuff on the internet. How have you got yourself into the position where your cardboard bin is full! For instance a conditioner bar can be sourced from the supermarket alongside your food. Zero carbon in delivery and minimal cardboard in packaging. Win win. I suggest you take a look at what is arriving in the post. Do you need it and do you love it. If neither of those apply then don't buy it and you'll have more space in your recycling bin.

Ordered by the shopper in chief, I am too wise to argue. 

Which council is it that doesn't collect cardboard for recycling?  I'm surprised there are any left.

Are there really no recycling points more convenient than the tip?  In a supermarket car park say?

Copeland, I live in the sticks. The bin wagon has been known to topple over down my lane, requiring 2 cranes to rescue it.

I have a steel incinerator on order, I wonder if it will arrive in a cardboard box? 

If you have the room for an incinerator, do you have a composter?

Fully equipped thanks two poly composers, quickly overloaded. We don't go shopping anymore, it's great but the flipside is online sellers treat you as their cardboard disposal route. My original point still stands, 2g of polythene to landfill or incineration may have a lower impact. 

Jim, I am not moaning about my council. I chose to live here after all. My complaint/question is the necessity of the amount of packaging used in an attempt to be cool and eco. Someone out there may have the technical knowledge to determine the environmental load of a poly bag vs the over use of cardboard.

No idea how it works in the UK (I live in Germany) but as a business we have to fill out an annual audit for packaging and plastic is surcharged under the so-called dual system, cardboard on the other hand is rebated as long as it is in the industry system (Rezy). The plastic packaging recyling market competes with the price of oil (recycle or use as fuel stock) whereas cardboard competes with a limited amount of waste paper and the forestry products industry. A difficult calculation! Councils hate paper/cardboard for transport volume reasons, sorted and baled plastic is no longer waste and in high demand as base stock.

OK, I understand the question now.  The problem is that there's no clear definition of 'environmental load'.  What's more important - CO2 and other greenhouse gas emissions?  Microplastic pollution?  Exhausting our fossil fuel reserves?  Rare earth extraction?  Deforestation and habitat loss?  Depending on your views, then you might decide that different solutions are more or less bad.

I tend to take the view that climate change >> all other issues.  On that basis alone, a small amount of plastic would probably be better than a lot of cardboard.  But it depends on what you do with the cardboard; if it gets landfilled (and not incinerated) then the methane is very bad.