Loading Notifications...

Ardern's NZ win

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 Agar Jelly 17 Oct 2020

Imagine a country that was anti fire-arms, pro climate and had so far kicked covid's backside. Sounds upside-down doesn't it? Good for them.

1
In reply to Agar Jelly:

I'd have moved there ages ago if they had any decent trad climbing. The only climbing I've heard of there is limestone bouldering, and having a competent government isn't worth suffering that for.

8
 Yanis Nayu 17 Oct 2020
In reply to Agar Jelly:

I’ve always found her very impressive. Such a change from the shithouses we get. Having said that, I think Starmer is ok. 

 nathan79 17 Oct 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

It's not a completely competent government. There seems to be significant poverty there, particularly among indiginous and Islander immigrants that doesn't seem to be getting dealt with, unsurprisingly they don't about about it.

Still take them over that Westminster shower though.

In reply to nathan79:

As ever, there's a lot of complexity to the poverty issues here.

Much of NZ struggles with housing supply and house prices in the main centres are eye-watering compared to the average income, and much of the "personal worth" factors are tied up with property.  Previous labour leaderships tended to overlook this, and previous National governments tended to exacerbate it. This last about administration certainly struggled to be seen to make much headway over housing and their flagship scheme was pretty much a damp squib. Decades of worsening disparity -  with generally poorer Māori families very much over-represented - aren't going to be reversed in a single 3 year electoral cycle. Poverty, crime, poor health and (to a lesser extent) illiteracy are disturbingly common, but at least there is widespread agreement in the country that this is the case and we need to do something about it rather than just ignore it as it doesn't impact on those of us with more money...

Jacinda is very much going all in on the eradication of child poverty, and there's a good chance she can get more through without having Winston Peters as her deputy PM (NZ First leader and junior coalition partner, now unceremoniously dumped by the electorate in a manner that would make Nick Clegg nostalgic) who was often diametrically opposed to her policies even as she's trying to promote them. The labour-green axis is incredibly strong this coming parliament.

How on earth she can navigate reducing child poverty while having to spend like mad through Covid and recovery is anyone's guess. But she is a talented leader with exceptional skills with empathy. If anyone can get most of the country pulling in one direction it's her.

Unlike Tony Blair (who, if we cast our minds back far enough, swept into parliament with a huge amount of support and general joy) she has earned her place actively rather than just being in the right place at the right time and, critically, not being a tory when much of the country was heartily sick of tory rule). Also, she's actually trustworthy.

b

 Davidlees215 17 Oct 2020
In reply to Agar Jelly:

Are they anti gun? I've not been there for 18 years, but when I was I met loads of people who had guns and seemed pretty obsessed about them. 

Maybe it's changed, I've not really been following new Zealand's news for a long time.

 George Ormerod 17 Oct 2020
In reply to Agar Jelly:

Looks like Aaron Banks, et al's boast about disrupting the campaign turned out to be bollocks.  Fingers crossed for some sanity on the 3rd of November too.

 climbingpixie 17 Oct 2020
In reply to Davidlees215:

They tightened up the gun laws after the Christchurch shooting, banning certain types of gun and making the licensing and registering of firearms stricter.

https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN23P0TE

In reply to Agar Jelly:

As ben b says, its more complex when you zoom in. My brother lives in a properly rural electorate here in NZ, and the gun laws, for example, are definitely not popular. The sector I'm in is seriously struggling due to the strict border closures, and there's an uncertain year ahead.

In the city, I've come across people who really dislike Jacinda, thinking she's not a 'serious' politician. She is different to the traditional politician and many do like this approach, me included. The way covid has been dealt with is great. But I think when you live here, if your business has been affected, or you're struggling, you don't think 'oh it could be worse, I could live in the UK/USA/ almost anywhere else', you want it to be better here in NZ.

Not sure how I've ended up giving a counterpoint. I'm pleased Labour are in power, and that there are 10 ish seats for the Green party (to the left of Labour). I hope we see real movement on the issues ben b talks about above, while keeping up the strong covid response. 

The big talking points at the election party I was at last night were around the two referendums, results due in 2 weeks (end of life choices, and recreational cannabis use) . Everyone was more or less happy with the expected labour win, but there was much more disagreement/discussion on these.

In reply to Helen R:

Well, there's an urgent press briefing coming up at 1pm on a sunday - that's not auguring well for us, especially if in a sector already hit by covid. I guess we will see in 10 minutes. 

It gives you an idea of how carefully we have done this when the whole country will be tuning to hear if there may have been a community transmitted case...

b

 waitout 18 Oct 2020
In reply to Agar Jelly:

82% voter turn out whatever the results is something to be proud of.

 AdrianC 18 Oct 2020
In reply to Agar Jelly:

> Imagine a country that was anti fire-arms, pro climate 

Apologies in advance if this pricks anyone's bubble but NZ is neither of those although it does a pretty good job of creating a "clean and green" impression.

The two largest industries are tourism and dairy farming.  Both have relatively large greenhouse gas emissions, (and strong negative effects on the local environment) and both have expanded massively in the last few years.  National and local government support this and the desire for further expansion is strong.  There are currently two rival proposals - both backed by different local councils - to build an international airport just outside Wanaka with the aim of further increasing visitor numbers.  There's a proposal to build a gondola in the Westland National Park to make it easier for visitors to go and see the Franz-Josef glacier now that it has receded due to warming contributed to by the long-haul flights of previous visitors.  Public transport is almost non-existent in many areas.

Labour seem to have been happy to have the revenue generated by these polluters and have done little to rebalance the economy away from them.  I'm hoping that now they'll have to but would have preferred to see a green / labour coalition.

No doubt at all that Jacinda has done exceptionally well with all the crises she's faced and I'm pleased to see her re-elected but I'm afraid that NZ will continue to burn through its environmental capital at a visible rate.

 waitout 18 Oct 2020
In reply to AdrianC:

> Apologies in advance if this pricks anyone's bubble but NZ is neither of those although it does a pretty good job of creating a "clean and green" impression.

Likewise it's pretty gun friendly, with 60% of guns being unregistered. NZ ranks around 20th for per capita gun ownership, though it's significantly higher as 15% of Kiwi's don't actually live in the country.

That wanker who shot up the mosques showed a good example of what even a foreigner could get their hands on.

 veteye 18 Oct 2020
In reply to AdrianC:

That's an informative perspective, and leaves a dilemma, as many of us would like to visit the southern alps, yet do we want to burn up all that fuel in the air to get there?

On that note, perhaps you could be said to be hypocritical? Your profile says that you climb all over the world. All climbers have this lust for the goals of other peaks and routes in other countries, yet I think that generally climbers have seen that the environment has to be considered much much more. ( I have only been abroad a couple of times in 2 years, but is that too much? I traveled on the second occasion by train to the same destination in France to ski. Still that may be too much.)

Good luck to all in New Zealand, and to your returned young leader.

3
 gazhbo 18 Oct 2020
In reply to veteye:

> That's an informative perspective, and leaves a dilemma, as many of us would like to visit the southern alps, yet do we want to burn up all that fuel in the air to get there?

> On that note, perhaps you could be said to be hypocritical? Your profile says that you climb all over the world. All climbers have this lust for the goals of other peaks and routes in other countries, yet I think that generally climbers have seen that the environment has to be considered much much more. ( I have only been abroad a couple of times in 2 years, but is that too much? I traveled on the second occasion by train to the same destination in France to ski. Still that may be too much.)

Only a couple of foreign trips, including a ski trip, is probably a bit much to be lecturing someone about their eco credentials based on which drop down box they chose when creating a profile on a website.

3

> ( I have only been abroad a couple of times in 2 years, but is that too much? I traveled on the second occasion by train to the same destination in France to ski. Still that may be too much.)

In context, yes. In the bigger picture, probably not. It’s YOUR conscience, if you are asking the question then you probably know the answer. 

In reply to Blue Straggler:

> In context, yes. In the bigger picture, probably not. It’s YOUR conscience, if you are asking the question then you probably know the answer. 

Similar to how people love a sky bereft of contrails, but can't wait to fly somewhere on a climbing trip. 

 SenzuBean 19 Oct 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> I'd have moved there ages ago if they had any decent trad climbing. The only climbing I've heard of there is limestone bouldering, and having a competent government isn't worth suffering that for.

There is some decent trad climbing, but I'll admit nowhere near as many routes as the UK, and not the variety. There are also thousands of crags that aren't developed due to access issues (e.g. the local granite mountain crags are 99.9% undeveloped because it's at least 6 hours walk-in) and the lack of climbers to keep them clean.


This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.