UKC

Just realised the dinner I am going to tomorrow evening is "black tie" as opposed to normal turn up in a suit type thing.

I dont have a DJ, will I get away with black suit, white shirt and bow tie? Assume that satorial elegance is not something  normally worry about.

 

In reply to subtle:

Depends on what it is. Often when I've made an effort to conform, there are others who clearly deliberately wear different colours, add in a kilt... all sorts of things. A tidy black suit would go unnoticed. 

In reply to subtle:

If it’s not a dreadfully posh do, and it’s a sharp black suit, you’ll be fine. Some people these days opt for a black necktie too, rather than a bow tie. If you do opt for the latter, try and avoid the comedy “look at me, I’m quirky and wearing a multicoloured bow tie” variety; people who don those are, invariably, bores... 

Edit, the black necktie will also hide the fact you’re not wearing a dress shirt, if you don’t happen to own one. A bow tie with a conventional buttoned shirt looks weird. 

In reply to plyometrics:

I'm not sure.  I'd have thought wearing a black neck tie says 'I don't actually understand what black tie means' - or, at the very least, 'I can't be bothered to meet the dress code'.  A bow tie with a regular shirt at least says 'I've done my best'.

Dress shirts can be easily had for less than £20.  Unless the clientele at this dinner regularly attend black tie events, I would guess that most will be in regular suit, dress shirt and bow tie.  Agree it needs to be black - or, if you really must, a solid colour.

In reply to subtle:

If anyone questions your dress, tell them you thought it was a black eye dinner.

In reply to plyometrics:

It's a dinner, not a funeral...

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

Granted, it’s certainly not a traditional approach Debretts would approve of, but I’ve been to plenty of black tie dos where there have been a number of black necktie wearers, myself included.  

In reply to subtle:

Go causal and wear  a big bib/napkin, no-one will know

In reply to the thread:

This whole "black tie" thing seems so strange to me. Bow ties, dress shirts... I've managed to spend five decades on this planet without once having to be bothered with it, and I hope I never will in the future.

Each to their own though.

In reply to subtle:

One of my guiding aphorisms in life is Thoreau's: "Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes", or in this case, a rented DJ.   Generally I take the view that if an event strictly requires "black tie" then it's not an event I want to attend.  But (a) I'm a grumpy old git, and (b) in my past 'career' I generally managed to avoid tests of my moral fibre in how far I was willing to conform to dress codes.

As a pragmatic compromise, I'd agree with others that if you invest in a cheap-ish dress shirt and a black bow tie you'll do fine in your black suit.

In reply to subtle:

If it's a formal event and the dress code is 'Formal' then I'll wear black tie. If, as seems to be the case these days, the dress code is 'Black Tie' because the host thinks black tie looks nice, I wear a suit (which is 'Informal') or find something less annoying to do with my time.

I got DJ wearing out of my system at Uni and have very few reasons to revisit it.

In reply to subtle:

My answer to this is to wear a black suit, white shirt and tie my own bow tie, I reckon that this easily trumps the poncy suit and lazy clip on tie that most others opt for

In reply to subtle:

I hate the things.  I've hired a few times.  I think the last one I went to I got a dress shirt and tie to go with my own black suit.  I know that I feel like a tw@t when I go - so I boycott them now.  But when I used to go, there were always a few just in smart suits.  I don't know if they were rebelling or worried about the dress code before hand, but no one has ever seemed to mind.   

Strange really as someone in a smart tailored suit can look far better than someone in an ill fitting DJ.  You know the ones... it comes out of the wardrobe and they wear it even though the years have altered their shape.

I once kept out of the way of an RAF guy at a posh function as I was in fear of his buttons becoming dangerous projectiles... his No.1 uniform was made to fit him 20 years previous. 

 

 

In reply to subtle:

Worth scouting around charity shops.  I got a dinner suit a few years ago that cost as little as a one night hire.  Jacket fits ok even if the trous are a bit baggy

In reply to subtle:

If it's a one off pick up a dress shirt with visible (probably metal) buttons and wear a crisp black suit and well polished black shoes. Absolutely wear a black bowtie and tie it yourself, not a necktie. The latter makes your look like a) a bodyguard b) a member of the kaiser chiefs (particularly if skinny tie) c) like you don't understand what black tie means d) a pallbearer.

 

 

In reply to GrahamD:

Seconded. I got a three piece tweed suit for a tenner. Cost me £50 to get the trousers sorted out but still... absolutely bargain!

In reply to subtle:

I always feel a bit sad reading some of the replies to topics like this and wish we could all feel more comfortable in all the situations we find ourselves in.

This should be fun, getting dressed should be fun, going for a night out should be fun.  I think you'd be fine in your black suit.  To add to the fun get a bow tie, try tying it, wear it untied and you'll have an amazing ice breaker when you ask for help!!

I've been to very very formal events (white tie) where guests have turned up not dressed correctly.  Nothing was said, they were made to feel welcome and comfortable every single time. 

Have fun, Mr Bond.

Cheers

Toby

 

In reply to Toby_W:

My alternative take on the subject is to studiously avoid any requirement to turn up anywhere in fancy dress, whether it's formal dinner or Halloween, ideally by finding something more pleasurable to do instead. For some reason I just hate it and always have done.

In reply to Toby_W:

I think it all depends on the person as to whether they enjoy it.

Personally I can't think of anything worse than attending a 'black tie' event. I got away from having to dress up as I'm told when I left school.

If I'm invited to a wedding or christening I'll happily put on a suit and tie because my friends would like me to do so, but thats as far as I go.

Fortunately I'm not bothered about attending events purely for career progression and 'networking', so can give them a wide berth.

In reply to subtle:

From the net! -  

"Wear proper black tie or send your regrets.  It’s that simple.

Hosts and organizers do not specify this dress code because they want you showing up in a black suit.  Rather, they have put a tremendous amount of effort into making the evening exceptional and are relying on you to respect the unique elegance and traditional uniformity that black tie so brilliantly imparts.  Yet there always seem to be those men who feel the party is all about them and they can dress as they please.  “Some guys,” observed The National Post, “especially younger fellows who feel they’re really successful, take pride in flouting dress codes and showing up in business suits, often not dark, and without a tie . . . Perhaps kids think it’s too much trouble to rent or buy a black tie.  Grow up or don’t show up.”

In reply to subtle:

Sod the 'black tie'. Go dressed up like Grayson Perry

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/90/4b/59/904b5943288d593694bfa843707873cc.jp...

In reply to subtle:

I guess one or two people might notice that you're not wearing a dress shirt if you go in a white shirt which isn't, but most people will probably be thinking about more important things (to them), like how they're feeling and coming across?

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Yes, quite. Wondering how many tedious questions / comments I will get about that, hmm.

In reply to subtle:

That's it decided then - black suit, white wing tipped shirt and bow tie it is.

Thanks all.

In reply to subtle:

Go just wearing a black tie

In reply to subtle:

It’s a sign of respect to the hosts and other attendees to follow the dress code, and it would say ‘lounge suit’ or ‘smart, casual’ if it meant wearing anything other than black tie. I suppose it then depends on how important that is to you in the context of this event. Not sure anyone but you can decide that.

paul

In reply to subtle:

Context is everything.Is it a works do?What are people expected to wear? What will your peers be wearing? Will you be considered a " tw~t  if you do not wear one.

Ring the organisers and ask if its a problem.

In reply to GrahamD:

show off!

In reply to rogersavery:

Make it a long one though. And quite wide at the bottom.

 

In reply to subtle:

This thread reminds me of a friend of mine who, when she was 12 was invited to a special birthday party - possibly a comunion or something similar - and was told to wear a "fancy" dress. So she turns up in her spiderman leotard and all her friends are wearing their best frocks. The pictures are priceless. 

In reply to Ridge:

Definitely, some people love a formal event, others just end up looking out of place.

I have worn uniform of some sort since I was old enough to go to school. Scouts, OTC, TA and accountancy all have strict dress codes. It's something you get used to if you need to.

It's not always about career progression or networking, sometimes it's just about tradition and having a really good time with like minded people. I love a black tie do, but I really enjoy a white tie event - I think I look like Fred Astaire until someone starts singing "Go compare...".

In reply to subtle:

Possibly, just consider the implications of being completely out of sync with everyone else. Will you amuse? Will you offend? Will you get sacked?

In reply to subtle:

Black suit, preferably shell

In reply to subtle:

Wear a burka? 

In reply to subtle:

You’ll stick out like a bulldogs bollocks. 

Go to marks and sparks and get yourself a DJ, keep the receipt then make sure you’re not sick down the front of it and take it back once you’ve used it and say it doesn’t fit.

I did the same when I went for initial selection at biggin hill - gravy stains down the front of my jacket, good old markies still gave me my money back

In reply to subtle:

I'd say it kind of depends. A black suit and bow tie is noticeably not-quite-right if everyone else is wearing a tux but it's not far off and it shows willing. So if it's a work do or some kind of whatever-club dinner where they've specified a dress code but nobody cares that much then yeah, you'll be fine. If either the organizer or the people you're going with really care about everyone looking the business then it might be worth hoofing it to Primarni or a rental place to see what you can pick up for cheap.

In reply to Toby_W:

I'm not sure this makes sense. Something either *is* fun, because you enjoy it, or it isn't (if you don't). I think if something *should* be fun, that's just saying that some people expect other people to like it, but it turns out they don't. 

You could say that dropping acid "should be fun". But realistically, not everyone's going to like it.

In reply to Andy Johnson:

Do you wear a suit for work?

I don't,cans never have. I have two suits; one for weddings, christenings and the like, and a DJ. I bought quality for both, so they are both still good, the DJ after 30 years. I don't really like wearing a suit, but it's a nice change to once in a while get dressed up in the DJ.

I got the suit trousers let out last year. I bought bigger trousers for the DJ a few years ago, but I may see if the originals can be let out; being quality, the seam ease is very big.

In reply to captain paranoia:

Jeans, t shirt, trainers. Hoody or fleece if it's cold. I design and develop software systems and in the whole of my career nobody wears a suit. I very occasionally wear a shirt (no tie) and chino-type trousers when visiting a big customer, but thats it.

Things I've never ever worn: dinner jacket, blazer, sports jacket, dress shirt, bow tie, cuff links... I've never felt that I've missed-out on something important.

In reply to cander:

The same righteous cander who posted about theft of wood on the recent chainsaw thread?!  

In reply to Jim Hamilton:

It’s not theft, it’s borrowing, no intent to permenantly deprive - now foxtrot oscar.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Perhaps poor wording on my part (ukc has helped my written English more than any school lesson!).  What I meant was the purpose of these events is to be a fun night out and you're absolutely right about the enjoyment part.  Someone above said they avoided all fancy dress occasions and I got that, I don't like fancy dress parties (excluding black tie etc) and that's sort of what I meant when I said the comments make me sad, I think it's a shame we all have the odd thing (personality or effort or just dislike) that stops us enjoying things that are intended to be fun.

Then again life would be dull if we were all the same.

Cheers

Toby

In reply to cander:

You've deprived them of revenue, and 'borrowing without asking' is not acceptable in any decent person's book.

In reply to Toerag:

it's called Fraud

In reply to Jim Hamilton:

No it’s not, Wardrobing isn’t actually illegal in the U.K. , get your facts right.

In reply to cander:

wardrobing - "a form of return fraud"

In reply to cander:

It's not the most honourable of things to do though, especially with gravy stains added. I'd have kept it instead.

In reply to Jim Hamilton:

No it isn’t - you’ve looked at Wikipedia that quotes US law, show me the U.K. law to support your assertion.

In reply to Timmd:

Oy log thief get off my land.

In reply to cander:

I wondered if you saw it as theft due to having land to farm (with trees on it presumably).

I reckon we all have our moral blind spot or grey areas when it's handy.

 

In reply to Timmd:

Mine was in 1985, when was yours...

In reply to Timmd:

Your changing the frame - quoting some else’s opinion I’m not interested in - because it’s huffing and puffing just like Hamilton’s. I called your actions theft because that’s what the law says it is, if you can show me where my actions where law breaking then I’ll own up to it, and throw myself at the mercy of the police (when she comes in at 6 tonight).

you and your flipping edits!

In reply to cander: 20 minutes ago, but sshhhh. 

 

In reply to Timmd:

So how’s your honour feeling just now?

In reply to cander:

Oh this. Pardon me. I didn't want the liker to have liked something they'd not liked (if you see what I mean), due to my editing it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-business/10440554/Wardrobing-is-a-...

Here it is so people aren't wondering.

Edit: PS, laws and what is 'morally correct' aren't always aligned. Homosexuality in the UK being illegal, or adultery in India, or home cultivation of cannabis for personal use in the UK. I can see why taking branches from people's land is illegal, or there could be chaos and what have you, broken trees, sawed off branches, and nutrients not going back into the soil. 

 

In reply to captain paranoia:

I bought a very expensive semi-bespoke suit about 14 years ago when I came into some money, thinking that, nothing off the shelf ever fits, so it would be a good idea to get this now and have something really good to wear for all the weddings and other formal occasions that might occur.

And so it has worked out. Moths have been rebuffed, wine stains avoided, but the very hardest part is ensuring that I still fit into said suit, year after year! I still do, just, but without an awful lot of running I doubt that I would.

In reply to mbh: I'm the same with balancing my love of food and keeping slim(mer), I have to get out and cycle a lot. It's always good to have a goal, and it keeps my own suit fitting too. I do like eating.

 

In reply to subtle:

Cheaper than hiring. You will never have to hire again or risk having your colleagues, boss or friends think you are an arse for failing to follow a simple request.

https://www.matalan.co.uk/mens/collections/suits-and-workwear/suits/tuxedos

In reply to achaplin:

https://www.matalan.co.uk/mens/collections/suits-and-workwear/suits/tuxedos

It's even cheaper if you have mates who don't do black/white tie.

If you're unfortunate enough to have to attend black tie corporate events, then turning up in a Matalan outfit will probably be career suicide anyway

In reply to subtle:

It has got much easier to dress fashionably since Ralph Lauren, Gucci and so on have started incorporating climbing equipment in their creations.

Just pop a DMM Belaymaster crab in the breast pocket of your suit or clip a small rack of nuts to your belt and you'll be the most fashionably dressed there.

 

 

In reply to cander:

Well, he had the cojones  to do it; well done !

In reply to Deviant:

It was an absolute blast, free drink, a bit of running around, doing rope tricks, interviews with old hairy arsed aircrew telling outrageous war stories and asking if your happy to vapourise Moscow, but most importantly which newspaper do you read old boy. The world has moved on since then.

In reply to Andy Johnson:

The above list suddenly made me think of my Dad talking about visiting a very posh shoe shop while in America (he didn't know that when he walked in), where they thought it was vulgar or common to advertise they had a sale on. When he sat down to try some shoes on, one of the staff came up and quietly told him that they had a sale on. Presumably, word would spread so 'the right sort of people' found out about the sale.

In reply to subtle:

so in the end what did you wear? and how did it go?

In reply to subtle:

I'd be made up me if I discovered that at the last minute as it means I have an excuse not to go. Sounds bloody awful. It's bad enough that people expect you to rock up to a wedding dressed like a tw*t but a dicky bow! Oh aye, I think not. 

In reply to snoop6060:

As someone with a job that doesn't really require any formality I quite enjoy opportunities to be a bit smart. I find that it's more the attitude rather than the dress that bothers me.

Though when it comes to formal attire there's a fine line between a room full of smartly dressed people and the waiting room at the magistrates' court.