/ Brexit's effect on business

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girlymonkey 10 Sep 2019

Yes, Brexit will be great for business. Boost for the economy and all that

THE LAST POST

We regret to inform you that Isle of Skye Chocolate has now closed permanently.

For the past 3 years, ever since the UK voted to leave the EU, we have been "on hold" as far as investment in the business is concerned, due to the UK's uncertain economic future. Our raw material prices have increased by around 30% in that time, mainly due to the fall in the value of the pound against the euro. Being outside the EU single market and common customs tariffs will lead to tariffs of between 10% and 20% being imposed on chocolate from the EU (our chocolate comes from Belgium).

No matter what happens in the future regarding brexit, irreparable damage has been done to our small business. We are not a large producer of chocolate like Cadbury's, but operate at the luxury end of the market with the highest quality ingredients. We are unable to run a profitable business in these trying conditions and so have reluctantly taken the decision to close our doors permanently.

We thank all of our customers and suppliers for their loyalty and support over the past few years.

The Apprentice will continue to make her cakes part-time and will continue to post on Skye Celebration Cakes. If you would like to follow her on that page it would give her a wee boost.

Thank you all again.

2
neilh 10 Sep 2019
In reply to girlymonkey:

Sad to hear of cases like this. It’s tough for small business in any market. 

8
john arran 10 Sep 2019
In reply to neilh:

> Sad to hear of cases like this. It’s tough for small business in any market. 

... but when people are deliberately making it much harder for you due to either political dogma or self-nest-feathering it's an order of magnitude harder again, and hardly surprising that a great many businesses will fail that otherwise wouldn't.

Enjoy your blue passports folks!

7
Yanis Nayu 10 Sep 2019
In reply to girlymonkey:

It’s a shame. Love to hear some of the site’s Brexit supporters explain how it was worth it. 

8
MG 10 Sep 2019
In reply to Yanis Nayu:

> It’s a shame. Love to hear some of the site’s Brexit supporters explain how it was worth it. 

Easy, surely?  Superstate, democracy Turkey, sovereignty, it didn't happen, blue passport, will of the people, elite snobs.

3
baron 10 Sep 2019
Ian W 10 Sep 2019
In reply to girlymonkey:

And slightly more worrying;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49651116

Sir Chasm 10 Sep 2019
In reply to Yanis Nayu:

> It’s a shame. Love to hear some of the site’s Brexit supporters explain how it was worth it. 

There'll be one along soon to tell us that any business that blames brexit is merely using that as an excuse and the business was in trouble anyway. Oh, and obviously it couldn't be anything to do with brexit because we haven't left yet.

5
elsewhere 10 Sep 2019
In reply to girlymonkey:

I know somebody at a company that does data centres and cloud infrastructure. He cannot answer questions about whether the EU citizen data will be covered by EU law as required. You cannot just bypass data protection by exporting data from EU.

They may have to transfer some of data centres and employment out of UK to keep EU customers. The withdrawal agreement would give reassurance to customers that his UK based services are legal during the transition to a final agreement.

Post edited at 21:56
baron 10 Sep 2019
In reply to Sir Chasm:

> There'll be one along soon to tell us that any business that blames brexit is merely using that as an excuse and the business was in trouble anyway. Oh, and obviously it couldn't be anything to do with brexit because we haven't left yet.

You might have missed my post 21.08 today.

Sir Chasm 10 Sep 2019
In reply to baron:

> You might have missed my post 21.08 today.

I might have, but I didn't.

wintertree 10 Sep 2019
In reply to elsewhere:

Scuttlebut is that quite a few redundant data centres spread across Europe are getting split into UK redundant sites for UK organisations and likewise rEU sites for the rEU.

Which makes redundancy, financial cost and energy efficiency worse across the board.

Snyggapa 10 Sep 2019
In reply to elsewhere:

We had to abandon our UK based IT hosting company and migrate all of our infrastructure to a global company (ended up being Microsoft Azure) to give us the ability to move our data as Brexit dictatated or not. Loss of money to the UK economy, gain to Microsoft (Ireland or US, not sure how their structure works)

And create a French company and prepare to move all of our business to Paris, becoming authorised by the French regulator. With French staff and a French office. Gain to France, loss to the UK. 

So far, this shows up in the UK economic stats as not a loss, since we've spent a shite-load of cash on lawyers, consultants, travel, buying new stuff - just to stand still. We're a company of 30 people and it's cost us north of a million quid just to prepare for the possibility of a no deal.

We have spent a huge amount of money on the preparation, plus we spend a huge amount in the UK as a whole as we operate our day to day business. Rent on a UK office, UK tax paying staff buying UK lunches and spending cash in the UK, UK office cleaners and UK childminders. If Brexit happens (and especially a hard version of it) then most likely all of that will vanish as those 30 jobs will almost certainly vanish abroad as well. We are only a small fish in the pond and all of our rivals have done exactly the same - huge preparation and expense for a best possible outcome of being no worse off than they were before. 

The ironic thing is that about 50% of our staff voted to leave - and they still don't understand that their jobs are on the line, everything is still "project fear". The word ignorance doesn't even begin to cover it.

1
Enty 11 Sep 2019
In reply to Snyggapa:

My climbing buddy's wife out here works for a large pharmaceutical company. Head office in Luxembourg but decent sized factory / distribution centre on SE England.

They have already acquired premises in Holland ready for the big move after no deal.

E

1
neilh 11 Sep 2019
In reply to john arran:

It s tough in any environment  and something like 60% of new start ups fail on their first 3 years anyway. It is of course quite feasible that the business was for example under capitalised or in an oversaturated market so it’s always difficult to draw direct conclusions.

there will have been other similar businesses that will have made it through.

12
Rigid Raider 11 Sep 2019
In reply to girlymonkey:

We export to over 90 countries and the EU is only a tiny part of that so temporary lull in business with the EU shouldn't bother us. We have invested cash in stocks and now have the luxury of 6 months of raw material stock in our warehouse, although that was more response to last year's BASF factory explosion and the raw material shortages that followed, with an average increase in cost of 45%. I think and hope that if our Shipping staff are required to produce a couple of extra documents for a shipment to the EU it won't bother them as they are already accustomed to producing all kinds of weird documentation for various challenging markets. 

But I can see how a company that is closely linked to the EU would be worried right now. 

elsewhere 11 Sep 2019
In reply to Rigid Raider:

Do your customers know what tariffs or regulations will apply when UK no longer covered by EU trade deals with most/many of those 90 countries? 

girlymonkey 11 Sep 2019
In reply to Rigid Raider:

But we import much more than we export. That is what this company (and no doubt many others) are struggling with - the cost of ingredients. And it's only going to get worse. We are not big exporters, we are big importers!

2
neilh 11 Sep 2019
In reply to girlymonkey:

Whilst I sympathise with what you are saying, in any business model there is always the risk of currency fluctations making an impact for importers.. It has always been the case historically ( the Euro/£ has been down to similar levels even before Brexit).

Its tough runniing any business.

So its fair to point out  when looking at the business even before Brexit you faced that risk.

Post edited at 09:51
9
john arran 11 Sep 2019
In reply to neilh:

There appear to be lots of businesses reporting increased difficulty, some critically so, as a direct result of the Brexit vote, and many more expecting to be in for very hard times if a hard Brexit or worst-case no-deal ends up happening. I have yet to hear of many (any at all?) that have reported actual business benefits attributed to the Brexit vote, and I'm struggling to remember any substantiated reports of businesses looking forward to performing better after Brexit, even if there are many that are downplaying the likely negatives.

Is having "made it through" Brexit really the best we can hope for even for the least affected businesses?

4
neilh 11 Sep 2019
In reply to john arran:

Well it is widely predicted that the £ will strengthen after the conclusion of the current negotiations so from an importers perspective the current currency issues could just as easily reverse.

But let us go back to the original post.Its a tough business world making craft chocolates or any niche food at any stage in the business cycle. Its an oversaturated market- like craft beer- and if your business basics are not right then there is a high likely hood of failure.

There will be similar businesses who make it through. And as I said there is always a 60% failure rate ( a startling high number) irrespective of Brexit .

I would turn it round when setting up the business did they consider the impact of say a worst case scenario on currency which could always happen.Did they just ignore it?Thats what tends to happen and why so many start up fail.

Post edited at 10:53
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john arran 11 Sep 2019
In reply to neilh:

> Well it is widely predicted that the £ will strengthen after the conclusion of the current negotiations so from an importers perspective the current currency issues could just as easily reverse.

The conclusion of current negotiations? Forgive me for not taking that comment entirely seriously. It is also widely predicted that if aw crash with no deal the £ will fall still further. I sense you're working hard to look for non-negatives.

> But let us go back to the original post.Its a tough business world making craft chocolates or any niche food at any stage in the business cycle. Its an oversaturated market- like craft beer- and if your business basics are not right then there is a high likely hood of failure.

None of which is disputed. But add currency fluctuation that (despite your protestations) in this case is not a normal ebb and flow of market rates but a severe consequence of major events that were unpredictable until just a few years ago. Then add in probably tariffs either on import ingredients, or on exports, or both, which also cannot reasonably have been predicted until recently. And even you must agree that this is not a normal business situation and will not be expected to have a normal impact on the viability of businesses.

> There will be similar businesses who make it through. And as I said there is always a 60% failure rate ( a startling high number) irrespective of Brexit .

> I would turn it round when setting up the business did they consider the impact of say a worst case scenario on currency which could always happen.Did they just ignore it?Thats what tends to happen and why so many start up fail.

I don't know when they set up the business, but presuming it was pre-2015 then it is completely unreasonable to have been expected to anticipate such a downturn in the business environment so quickly. If nobody ever started a business without having tens of percent profitability in reserve just in case the government decided to make life particularly hard for everyone, then nobody would ever start a business.

3
Rigid Raider 11 Sep 2019
In reply to elsewhere:

> Do your customers know what tariffs or regulations will apply when UK no longer covered by EU trade deals with most/many of those 90 countries? 

No they haven't a clue and neither have we. In a few of those more challenging export markets, local Customs staff might use the situation to hold importers' consignments to ransom, demanding higher duty payments but most importers are accustomed to dealing with that kind of silliness because it happens every few years when a new Head of Customs is appointed by the incoming new president. 

jethro kiernan 11 Sep 2019
In reply to girlymonkey:

I've spoken to a few people preparing for brexit in smaller companies, most are running fairly efficiently but the increase in cost brought about by the WTO will have to be found somewhere.

  • Increase cost to customers 
  • reduce R&D
  • cut payroll cost's

Most companies are going to go for option 3, expect a wage freeze for exporting companies, this with the increase in costs of living are going to make life difficult for those already struggling.

neilh 11 Sep 2019
In reply to john arran:

It is expected in the currency markets that the £ will increase in value when a deal is done.

Currency fluctuation like this have happened before, try looking at past currency charts. £/Euro parity has happened before.It is not unreasonable to look at this and do predictions- both ways- especially if your business is reliant on imports.You could suggest it is bad practise  not to consider it.

Downturns can happen at any time and in small businesses it hits hard becuase they are usually under capitalised and do not have money in the bank so to speak, generally living month to month.. Entrepreneurs are generally optimistic about the future ( its a naturual trait) . Yet tend also to ignore the high failure rate thinking it will not happen to them.

What I am saying is nothing new. It is neither pro or anti Brexit.Its business and its tough.

Post edited at 12:03
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john arran 11 Sep 2019
In reply to neilh:

> What I am saying is nothing new. It is neither pro or anti Brexit.Its business and its tough.

What it seems to me that you are doing is victim blaming, when few could reasonably have predicted such a self-destructive economic environment. Yes, major currency fluctuations have happened in the past and many businesses will have failed as a result. The difference in this case is that it is Brexit that has caused those fluctuations and those business failures. As I said before, which you chose to ignore, it is simply not possible to insulate start-up businesses from such unpredicted wild swings in economic environment, and the fact that it is the UK government that is solely responsible for this swing lays the blame squarely at the government's feet. Not with the poor business operators who will be suffering badly as a result.

1
neilh 11 Sep 2019
In reply to john arran:

No I am saying it could easily be another cause and you should not be blind or ignorant of that fact. Its a stunning number on business failures for all sorts of reason.

If you want to portray it as brexit, then fine.I would want to dig deeper.

8
pasbury 11 Sep 2019
In reply to jethro kiernan:

> I've spoken to a few people preparing for brexit in smaller companies, most are running fairly efficiently but the increase in cost brought about by the WTO will have to be found somewhere.

> Increase cost to customers 

> reduce R&D

> cut payroll cost's

> Most companies are going to go for option 3, expect a wage freeze for exporting companies, this with the increase in costs of living are going to make life difficult for those already struggling.

This will be the reality for millions of people including me. Also state support for the victims of economic contraction will decline as tax receipts will fall.

It's not just small business either, I work for a very large company divided between four European countries. No deal will really f*ck us up immediately but even a transition and trade deal will most likely lead to a gradual withering away of the UK based operations.

john arran 11 Sep 2019
In reply to neilh:

If you re-read the OP I think you'll find it pretty hard to conclude that it isn't Brexit-related. Unless of course the owner of the business was lying in that post.

baron 11 Sep 2019
In reply to john arran:

The owner also owns a brewery which appears to still be in business.

The chocolate company appears to have been a very small operation in terms of numbers of people employed.

Maybe this fact combined with the increased costs of importing raw materials from a single source and selling to a limited market gave the company little room for manoeuvre.

The owner was predicting the company’s difficulties two years ago.

That’s if my googling skills are up to scratch.

1
john arran 11 Sep 2019
In reply to baron:

> The owner also owns a brewery which appears to still be in business.

> The chocolate company appears to have been a very small operation in terms of numbers of people employed.

> Maybe this fact combined with the increased costs of importing raw materials from a single source and selling to a limited market gave the company little room for manoeuvre.

> The owner was predicting the company’s difficulties two years ago.

> That’s if my googling skills are up to scratch.

All of which tallies with this being a Brexit casualty. The costs of import necessarily will have been currency-dependant, and the pound dropped markedly three years ago, right after the referendum. It wasn't just random fluctuation.

neilh 11 Sep 2019
In reply to john arran:

Its not unusual for business owners to put spin to suit, even you must recognise that.

There will be another craft choolate place ( its one of those types of businesses currently that is very trendy, even though the failure rate will be high, food vans at festivals is another ) in that part of the world which had the same issues and made it through just because its business was better. The failure may have a positive spin,that other business has had a competitor knocked out and prospered. Its the law of the jungle, best not to forget it.

 I voted remain, but sometimes when I read OP like this I do say " Oh come on it could be something else".

Post edited at 13:11
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Northern Star 11 Sep 2019
In reply to girlymonkey:

In the industry we work in (marketing - part of the service industry) we have seen huge budget cuts to UK offices of some of the large European multinationals we work with.  A lot of the pan-European marketing work previously handled by the UK offices is now increasingly being transferred back to offices and departments in mainland Europe.  It would seem that these businesses are put off by the current uncertainty surrounding Brexit and don't want to invest any more than they have to in the UK at present.  People leaving are not being replaced and re-structuring seems rife.

john arran 11 Sep 2019
In reply to neilh:

> Its not unusual for business owners to put spin to suit, even you must recognise that.

Ah, so in order not to accept the reality of Brexit pain, you've decided that people are telling lies. Your choice, I suppose.

>  I voted remain

So I've seen you write on numerous occasions but not once do I recall you expressing an opinion consistent with that. Should I conclude that you're putting "spin to suit"?

4
neilh 11 Sep 2019
In reply to john arran:

Oh come on.I am saying that it is just as much likely to be other business factors.Sorry if it does not tick your box.

More than happy with my remain position and voting Lib.But I will not jump on a bandwagon castigating Brexit just because it suits from a business failure perspective.

4
In reply to girlymonkey:

It's not so much the effects of Brexit which has caused so much grief - more the process.

Any company that put together an amazing strategy for the 31st of March promptly had to rip it up. The same again for the last 6 months. 

There are probably lots of consultants who have made a decent living putting together Brexit planning advice which goes out of date every two weeks.

Pefa 11 Sep 2019
In reply to girlymonkey:

Where I live a restaurant has just closed because the young man who ran it was from the continent and wanted to be where there was freedom of movement so he has packed up and gone back. 

This place was buzzing as it provided quality food and live music at the weekends, banging wee lock in raves afterwards and also dance and aerobic classes in the evenings.

Where once you couldn't get a parking place there as it was such a busy hive of local community, good food, music and activity within walking distance it is now boarded up and totally empty and no one goes near that area anymore. 

2
jethro kiernan 11 Sep 2019
In reply to pasbury:

Some of my work is for a Dutch company, it won't end immediately after Oct 31st but I'm fully expecting it to slow down as it becomes less trouble to employ people from within Europe. I also fully expect leavers to wake up on the day after 31st when the sky hasn't fallen in and say I told you so project fear  not realising we are slowly boiling like a frog in hot water. Queues at Dover aside it will be death by a thousand cuts over a good few years and already has started.

La benya 11 Sep 2019
In reply to Pefa:

He’s a rubbish businessman then as any business like that could have been sold on and kept going. 

4
timjones 11 Sep 2019
In reply to neilh:

> Whilst I sympathise with what you are saying, in any business model there is always the risk of currency fluctations making an impact for importers.. It has always been the case historically ( the Euro/£ has been down to similar levels even before Brexit).

> Its tough runniing any business.

> So its fair to point out  when looking at the business even before Brexit you faced that risk.

Before Brexit we did not face the risk of both currency fluctuations AND import tariffs.

GridNorth 11 Sep 2019
In reply to jethro kiernan:

> Queues at Dover aside 

A couple of days ago I listened  to an interview with the man who was in charge of customs at Dover and he said there will not be any issues and I've lost track of the number of times his French counterpart in Calais has said the same. My understanding is that most of the administration of importing and exporting is done beforehand and that actions are being taken to expedite those specific procedures.

2
Toerag 11 Sep 2019
In reply to La benya:

.ah yes, investing in restaurants is such a good idea in a nation where disposable income is likely to go down the pan and major restaurant chains are failing left right and centre.

Pefa 11 Sep 2019
In reply to La benya:

Maybe you are right but it is a huge loss for the people around here as it had been here for many years.

Sometimes you don't fully appreciate things until they are gone. 

Toerag 11 Sep 2019
La benya 11 Sep 2019
In reply to Toerag:

... except the poster described it as a thriving established business and the ‘experience’ sector is the one resilient area of our economy as shown by the last crash. 

GridNorth 11 Sep 2019
In reply to Toerag:

I don't know if anything has changed I'm merely repeating what was said by two people who are directly involved in the process being discussed.

1
La benya 11 Sep 2019
In reply to Pefa:

Very true. 

Hopefully the owner didn’t sell I tip ally as a ‘f*ck you’ to brexit....

tjdodd 11 Sep 2019
In reply to neilh:

> Oh come on.I am saying that it is just as much likely to be other business factors.Sorry if it does not tick your box.

For any single business, there are of course many factors that will affect its success or failure.  However, I think the point being made in the various posts above is that across the board companies have been unusually affected by Brexit and more particularly by the (in)actions of the government.  The OP is just one example to illustrate the very unfortunate circumstances. 

Whether it is currency fluctuations, the need to stockpile, invest heavily in contingency planning or invest in relocation these should be unnecessary costs.  I think it is reasonable for businesses not to expect to be undermined by their own government's actions in such a concerted manner.  The amount of money that has been wasted due to Brexit planning is huge and whilst this has a small short term gain to the economy the long term effects will be massive and negative.

It is amazing how politicians have so little consideration for the impact of their decisions on the economy, business and most importantly individuals.  You hear time and again that despite everything politicians are in it for the right reasons.  You really have to question this given how pretty much all politicians from across the parties have inflicted so much damage to the UK in the past few years (from the idea of the vote itself, through false claims in campaigning to the mess of the deal negotiations).

And, whatever the outcome of the next few weeks or months, this is still only the start.  Wait to the mess of the real negotiations for the long term relationship with the EU (which I think most people do not realise will take even more years even if they realise this has to happen at all).

Rob Exile Ward 11 Sep 2019
In reply to GridNorth:

'A couple of days ago I listened  to an interview with the man who was in charge of customs at Dover and he said there will not be any issues and I've lost track of the number of times his French counterpart in Calais has said the same. ' Bollocks. I've SEEN the preparations - they consist of the overhead signage on the M25 and other motorways being updated to say  'Documents may change after Nov 1st - Please check'.

So truck drivers are supposed to check - with who? How? When? It will be chaos. 

neilh 11 Sep 2019
In reply to tjdodd:

Every hour in the Uk some 80 new businesses start trading usually as micro companies. Small one person businesses like the OP. The stats on failures are disheartening. Most will never survive more than a few years. Something like only 30% will survive beyond 6 or 7 years. 

Its a brutal process. 

Brexit is one of a number of issues to be faced. The chances are and the stats show that most of these are eaten alive in the market place. If it’s not Brexit then it is something else. 

I am of course not talking about larger companies. 

Post edited at 19:08
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neilh 11 Sep 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

The issue will be single owner truck drivers or vans. Those in networks or part of larger transport groups have plans already in place. 

2
tjdodd 11 Sep 2019
In reply to neilh:

I don't think anyone is disputing the huge difficulties facing small companies to succeed. The point people are making is that the last thing they need, on top of everything else, is an idiotic government whose very approach is increasing the high chance of failure even higher.  You would expect government to do everything possible to help small businesses succeed rather than to help them fail.

Lusk 11 Sep 2019
In reply to Pefa:

> Where I live a restaurant has just closed because the young man who ran it was from the continent and wanted to be where there was freedom of movement so he has packed up and gone back. 

Did he just lock the door one day and walk away? Why?
Doesn't he realise it's still all up in the air, and they way things are going, a distinct possibility that we won't even Leave in the end.

On the face of it, looks rather hasty and poor judgement.
(but what would I know anyway, being a failed business man! )

1
john arran 11 Sep 2019
In reply to neilh:

I can't help thinking you're being utterly dishonest in trying to pretend that Brexit isn't making the business environment substantially harder right now.

"If it’s not Brexit then it is something else" seems to be suggesting that, were it not for the awful and undeniable current effects of Brexit, both on the pound and on investment levels, any struggling company would probably be struggling anyway. My opinion is that that is nonsense and I'm genuinely wondering why someone such as yourself would want to be actively trying to spread such nonsense, particularly as you continue to claim 'remainer' status despite many indications to the contrary.

neilh 11 Sep 2019
In reply to tjdodd:

The point I am making is that even without Brexit most will not survive.It seems that most people are continually overlooking this fundamental point.Brexit is just one of many hurdles. If it’s not Brexit then it will statistically be something else. 

As I keep on saying, it’s a brutal process. There is no sugar coating with or without Brexit. 

3
neilh 11 Sep 2019
In reply to john arran:

I am talking about the OP.

The chances are the OP would have more than likely failed anyway.

Nothing dishonest in that.

I recognise that nobody likes this. 

Post edited at 20:18
3
Rob Exile Ward 11 Sep 2019
In reply to neilh:

How can they? Sorry, but you're talking nonsense. There are no agreements in place so no-one can possibly know what is supposed to happen.

Lusk 11 Sep 2019
In reply to girlymonkey:

I doubt very much that the guy is short of a bob or two when he's selling his own beer on his own website for £5.20 a litre!

john arran 11 Sep 2019
In reply to neilh:

> I am talking about the OP.

> The chances are the OP would have more than likely failed anyway.

> Nothing dishonest in that.

> I recognise that nobody likes this. 

How could you possibly say that and keep a straight face? Just because a lot of businesses fold absolutely does not mean that the OP business is likely to have folded were it not for the unforeseeable and punitive economic environment brought about by this and previous governments.

The way you're writing suggests that you think that there's a similar risk of businesses failing now, and failing in the near future, than if Brexit had never had the backing of a referendum outcome, the pound was doing its customary variation (i.e. a lot more resilient than at present) and tariffs were not even a bad dream. How can that even be possible given that we now still have all the same business risks and pitfalls we had before and on top of that we now have massively challenging additional pressures? It simply doesn't make sense, and I rather think that you know it doesn't. So why are you pretending nothing has changed, when you know full well that a great deal has changed? And changed for the worse.

Ian W 11 Sep 2019
In reply to neilh:

> The chances are the OP would have more than likely failed anyway.

> Nothing dishonest in that.

> I recognise that nobody likes this. 

Utter, utter bollocks. The business had been trading for several years; it was bought by the current owners in 2015, and was doing well enough to persuade Mrs Owner to resign her employment and join the business full time. The business would more than likely have continued trading for several years at least, without setting the world alight.

The chances of the business failing seem very small, given that it is at least 5 years old and still trading and growing. Quite sensibly the owners have looked at the likely outlook, and have come to the unsurprising decision that faced with an increase in the cost of their major ingredient of the magnitude of 30 - 40% WITHOUT the commodity price itself increasing, the business will not be able to absorb or pass on this cost.

The direct, irrefutable cause of this cost increase, and hence the decision to cease trading, is brexit. Any other view is, I'm afraid, based in naivety or ignorance, or you are simply a troll.

Post edited at 21:03
tjdodd 11 Sep 2019
In reply to neilh:

> I am talking about the OP.

> The chances are the OP would have more than likely failed anyway.

> Nothing dishonest in that.

> I recognise that nobody likes this. 

What evidence do you have for this conclusion? You are making random assumptions about the company and its owners (unless you know them). What is dishonest is that you are saying the owners were incompetent. I think the overwhelming evidence is that the reason for the business closing is an incompetent government. I can only assume your continued arguing is some odd defence of the government and Brexit.

1
Pefa 11 Sep 2019
In reply to Lusk:

Yea one minute it was buzzing then the next it was shut down and after asking around it turned out he went back to Europe because we are leaving the EU and no freedom of movement.He was a bit of a free spirit raver type so maybe that had some bearing as well I duno. 

1
Lusk 11 Sep 2019
In reply to Pefa:

Drugs, has to drugs. Obviously really.

neilh 12 Sep 2019
In reply to tjdodd:

People ignore the stats on these failure rates. They are there- have been for years. Nothing new or exciting about them.

And I will repeat we are talking about start ups which refers to the OP and have to be observed in that context.

I am not talking about other posters comments about their own companies which for example are relocating to Europe.Those are not start ups.

And I am a remainer. I view Brexit as a disaster for established businesses with European connections and those involved within manufacturing  supply chains ( car assembly plants etc).

But the OP was a start up and from a business perspective it had a very low chance of getting through those inital years irrespective of Brexit.It helps to put this into business stats context.I appreciate that alot of people do not like this message.

3
tjdodd 12 Sep 2019
In reply to neilh:

I still don't understand why you keep spouting bollox.  I would not consider the company in the OP to be a startup.  They have been going for 10 years and presumably have been successful in all of that time.  You keep referring to how difficult it is for new startups and how many fail in the first 3 years.  I reiterate that you are making completely uninformed assumptions about the company and how it has been run.  You do not have a clue what you are on about to the point of not even knowing how long they have been running.  I can only presume you are reading what you want in people's posts and jumping to conclusions.  Try reading, understanding and thinking a bit before posting nonsense.

Pefa 12 Sep 2019
In reply to Lusk:

What? 

Ian W 12 Sep 2019
In reply to neilh:

> People ignore the stats on these failure rates. They are there- have been for years. Nothing new or exciting about them.

> And I will repeat we are talking about start ups which refers to the OP and have to be observed in that context.

Neil, you are the only one talking about a start up. The business referred to in the OP isnt a start up.


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