UKC

Car options for sleeping in

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 libertine 14 Jan 2023

In the market for a new car. Thinking about getting an estate with the idea we can put the seats down and sleep in the back for the odd night on trips.

I assume this is more comfortable in some car models than others (space, can you fit airmatress, is it flat etc). I'm 6'3" and ideally would be able to lie flatish, with space for partner and a couple of packs.

I don't have the appetite/time/money for doing a full on van conversion, and this would be our only vehicle so have to also be practical be for normal driving.

Does the UKC hivemind have any helpful views, or recommendations on cars to look at or avoid?

Thanks

 Lankyman 14 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine:

I'm 6'1" and could sleep fine diagonally in the back of my old Golf. Your partner would have to be about 4' tall though? Same in my current Focus. I used to have an Avensis estate which could sleep two OK and the seats folded perfectly flat (unlike the Focus).

 mike123 14 Jan 2023
In reply to Lankyman:

> I'm 6'1" Your partner would have to be about 4' tall though? 

the obvious advantage bring that you could have two 4’ partners and keep one on each side  . When one was fed up of belaying you you use the other . Likewise other car related activities. 

Post edited at 12:38
 LastBoyScout 14 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine:

Someone I used to climb with had a long line of Volvo estates as company cars - used to cause fun at the dealers by getting them to put the seats down and getting in with his son to check space.

We have a VW Tiguan, which has the unusual feature of allowing you to put the front passenger seat flat, which means you have about 2.5m from glovebox to boot which is pretty much flat. I've had an Ikea wardrobe in there, flat packed.

 Jon Read 14 Jan 2023
In reply to LastBoyScout:

Volvo V70s seats fold down flat, and the front passenger seat also folds forward, almost flat. You'll perhaps need something to 'fill the gap', but there are lots of videos out there that do this for various cars.

 carl dawson 14 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine: Not an estate but the VW Caddy Life 2.0Tdi offers plenty of space and more headroom than an estate. Five seats (rear ones removable to leave a completely flat base). The Maxi version has even more space. 

 Robert Durran 14 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine:

Peugeot Partner/Citroen Berlingo (they are the same vehicle). Costs like a car and drives like a car, but I can live in mine (have a bed and mattress in it). A revelation after sleeping in estate cars for decades. Can get 60mpg on long journeys if careful.

 philipivan 14 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine:

6'4 have had 2 mondeo estates can easily sleep 2 with seats flat been great. I might go for a skoda superb next time which would also work. 

1
 freeheel47 14 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine:

Ford S-max or Galaxy.  S-max a very drivable large car- but the diesel we had ended up with lots of diesel problems (DPF etc). So petrol.

 Mark Eddy 14 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine:

I'm on my second Volvo V70 and they work a treat for sleeping in. Seats fold completely flat. I'm also 6'3" but still fit ok.

The Toyota Avensis (not the current model but the one before) estate was also good and possibly very slightly bigger than the Volvo

 Michael Hood 14 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine:

I'm amazed that nobody has yet recommended Skoda Octavia (aka the climber's car) - or is this something that it doesn't do as well as other vehicles out there?

Edit: for clarity I'm not recommending the Octavia here - I have no knowledge of it except that it's the goto answer on UKC car threads.

Post edited at 18:15
 Exile 14 Jan 2023
In reply to Michael Hood:

Just to please you - I've slept comfortably in a mates Octavia. (I'm 6ft1.) 

 Michael Hood 14 Jan 2023
In reply to Exile:

Thank you - blood pressure returning to normal 😁

 Mark Eddy 14 Jan 2023
In reply to Michael Hood:

The Octavia doesn't come with a completely flat loadspace as standard. Although this can be bought as an optional extra, or no doubt self converted.

 philipivan 14 Jan 2023
In reply to Mark Eddy:

I've always thought that was a bit weird and was one of the reasons I preferred the mondeo. Any idea why that's the default?

 jack_44 14 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine:

Hard to look past a Honda Jazz! Back seats fold down really quite low, so you sleep below the line of the windows and you can sit up quite comfortably in them. Massive amount of space in the back too for a small car.

I now have a Skoda Octavia. It's not bad, I can wedge a pad in the boot to make it fairly flat and lay flat, but you are at around window height and there isn't much head room or room for two people.

Probably similar in costs to run, Skoda is comfier on longer journeys, but isn't so good driving short journeys in urban places.

1
 ripper 14 Jan 2023
In reply to philipivan:

> Any idea why that's the default?

Lower boot floor creates more volume which looks good in comparison charts against other cars

 65 14 Jan 2023
In reply to Michael Hood:

> I'm amazed that nobody has yet recommended Skoda Octavia (aka the climber's car) - or is this something that it doesn't do as well as other vehicles out there?

I've got a newish Octavia and Mrs65 had a 2009 one some years ago, both estates.  I slept in the old one a couple of times and it was doable but required a lot of padding to get comfortable as the back seat doesn't fold flat. It was long enough though, just, and I'm 188cm/6'2". I haven't tried the current one but the seat doesn't lie flat either.

I reckon there are better estates for comfy sleeping, (Mazda 6, Mondeo, Merc E, BMW 5 series) but clearly Berlingos, Caddys etc are the way to go for regular car dossing. 

 paulguy 14 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine:

A bit left field but a seat Alhambra or VW Sharan offer a van like experience plus the seats fold down flat (individually) at the back, I think there might even be an option where the front passenger seat folds flat. I found it even more practical than the estates I normally bought. 

 bouldery bits 14 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine:

E class estate. 

 Fraser 15 Jan 2023
In reply to Michael Hood:

> I'm amazed that nobody has yet recommended Skoda Octavia (aka the climber's car) - or...

I was going to suggest its bigger brother, the Superb estate. My previous car, Mazda 6 estate was a decent length, as is my current Passat estate.

 Brass Nipples 15 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine:

Subaru Outback is long enough for someone 6ft

 SDM 15 Jan 2023
In reply to philipivan:

My Mondeo MK4 estate was fine for sleeping in, but it could have been so much better given its size:

The seat bases don't remove and prevent the seat backs from going totally flat. They go close to flat but not all the way.

The Berlingo that I had previously actually had a longer, completely flat sleeping area because its rear seats all came out completely, individually, and in about 2 seconds. That was such a great feature for quickly changing it from passenger mode to sleep mode. It was also wider, much taller, full of useful storage compartments, and easier to manoeuvre around town (I regularly have to parallel park and the Mondeo is often too long to fit in spaces that almost any other car would fit in). Sadly, I had a Berlingo with the 1.6l HDi turbo problems so it didn't function as a car and had to go.

 deepsoup 15 Jan 2023
In reply to jack_44:

> Hard to look past a Honda Jazz!

The Honda Jazz has an amazing amount of space inside for such a tiny car, it's very clever, but there's no getting away from the fact that it is a tiny car and not a tardis.  The design of the rear seats is genius* - if SDM's Mondeo had a similar design it would be absolutely cavernous.

*(The seat bases move forwards and drop down into the footwell as you fold the back down, so the seat back ends up flat and flush with the floor of the boot.)

1
 Shani 15 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine:

Looking at some of the heights given above, I think UKC might have an infestation of giants. 🤔

Shani (6ft3")

 David Myatt 15 Jan 2023
In reply to Fraser:

I have a Superb Mk 3 estate and while it’s plenty long enough the seats do not fold flat. I’ve just bought my daughter (5ft 2ins) a Vauxhall Meriva. The back seats do fold flat and there is heaps of storage space…quite a clever car but they stopped making them six years ago. Apparently MPVs have been superseded by SUVs, for some reason.

David

Post edited at 17:25
 Michael Hood 15 Jan 2023
In reply to David Myatt:

> Apparently MPVs have been superseded by SUVs, for some reason.

It's in the abbreviations:

  • MPV - meh person's vehicle
  • SUV - superior user's vehicle

Of course I can think of other maybe more appropriate words beginning with S 😁

1
 bouldery bits 15 Jan 2023
In reply to Shani:

> Looking at some of the heights given above, I think UKC might have an infestation of giants. 🤔

> Shani (6ft3")

All the hard moves are easier of you're tall.

BB, 

5'8 on a good day 

 Stichtplate 15 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine:

Get  a second hand hearse. Loads of room in the back, low miles, never been ragged (quite the opposite) and no one will ever cut you up in traffic.

 Ram MkiV 15 Jan 2023
In reply to paulguy:

> A bit left field but a seat Alhambra or VW Sharan offer a van like experience plus the seats fold down flat (individually) at the back, I think there might even be an option where the front passenger seat folds flat. I found it even more practical than the estates I normally bought. 

A few years ago I was hoping to get a VAG vintage tdi Alhambra, Sharan or Galaxy as they seemed like a great, cheap, van-sized camping vehicle.  Some of the higher spec ones even have captain's seats at the front.  I looked at a few but unfortunately, despite a couple driving fine, I couldn't find any without really bad undercarriage rust in MOT-able areas (wasn't bothered about bodywork) and the sills/jacking points where reliably completely stoved in and rusted to hell.  Seemed great vehicles otherwise...maybe good bets if you had a welder and knew how to use it?  (I didn't and don't) 
Ended up getting an Octavia estate....

 Shani 15 Jan 2023
In reply to bouldery bits:

> All the hard moves are easier of you're tall.

> BB, 

> 5'8 on a good day 

I'm triggered! With height comes weight, and those little tendons and ligaments in the fingers, don't scale with height. Currently I'm a lean 85kg, but damn that feels heavy on any pocket on a Beatmaker 2000.

That said, i recall doing Telli at Stanage and thinking it was barely 5b due to my mahoosive reach! Thus I'll concede.

 Ram MkiV 15 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine:

The following time stamped vid shows the sort of thing you need to make to get a flat sleeping platform in an older Octavia estate.  I'm 5'10" and have to slightly wind the driver's backrest forward but don't need to slide the whole thing to have plenty of room for lying fully flat.  An extra hinged flap to deploy having slid the seat fully forward would get you another 6" at least I'd have thought....
youtube.com/watch?v=H3538W6nNeU&t=157
Mine's a single but could easily be upgraded to a double in the unlikely event of procuring a girlfriend.

 Shani 15 Jan 2023
In reply to Stichtplate:

> Get  a second hand hearse. Loads of room in the back, low miles, never been ragged (quite the opposite) and no one will ever cut you up in traffic.

This is borderline genius - apart from the downside of the glass sides.

But let's be honest, if you kept the glass sides and stored all your kit in a coffin, who would actually break in?

Two problems (accommodation & security) solved in one!

 deepsoup 15 Jan 2023
In reply to Stichtplate:

> Get  a second hand hearse.. never been ragged

That depends how second hand it is.  Fair enough if you're buying from an undertaker, but if a ghostbuster has had it for a bit...

 Fraser 15 Jan 2023
In reply to David Myatt:

> I have a Superb Mk 3 estate and while it’s plenty long enough the seats do not fold flat.

Interesting to hear that,  I'd assumed they had the same set up as the Octavia. Re the Meriva, I think there were some issues on occasion with them spontaneously combusting behind the dash!

 wercat 15 Jan 2023
In reply to Stichtplate:

If you've ever been to Whitby around Halloween there is often a hearse parked on the clifftop road above the harbour near Captain Cook.   There is usually a skeleton sleeping in the front though I don't know if it's always the same one.

 Strife 15 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine:

My mondeo estate is very comfy to sleep in. Done so many times. The boot space is outrageous

 Stichtplate 15 Jan 2023
In reply to Shani:

> This is borderline genius - apart from the downside of the glass sides.

Ahh, but some come with those little silky curtains. I've just looked on fleabay. There's a 4L V8 jag hearse on there. Why would you put a V8 in a hearse? Mental!

 Shani 15 Jan 2023
In reply to Stichtplate:

Ah yes, hearse curtains!

And if you drive slow enough you'll probably won't be bothered by police for going through red lights.

I think there's a marketing opportunity here.

In reply to Stichtplate:

> Why would you put a V8 in a hearse? Mental!

Takes a lot of torque to be able to pull a couple tons of car, casket etc along while just ticking over. 

 Lurking Dave 16 Jan 2023
In reply to deepsoup:

Egon, Venkman and Stanst drove an ambulance surely?

 deepsoup 16 Jan 2023
In reply to Lurking Dave:

D'Oh!  You're quite right, I'm a fool.  As long as the OP doesn't buy a hearse with blue lights on it should be fine.

(I just remembered it being hearse shaped -  I looked it up and it was a 1959 Cadillac Fleetwood 'end loader'.  They were about 50/50 used as ambulances and hearses back in the day in the USA.)

 william55 16 Jan 2023

I have looked for a lot of ideas on youtube and google about how to adapt a car for 2 people sleeping comfortably on it, but all I find are cars whose trunk opens completely, including the window.

However, my car has the other type of trunk, so... this is a problem.
To be totally specific, this is the car I would like to ""camperize""..

 Shani 16 Jan 2023
In reply to william55:

> I have looked for a lot of ideas on youtube and google about how to adapt a car for 2 people sleeping comfortably on it, but all I find are cars whose trunk opens completely, including the window.

> However, my car has the other type of trunk, so... this is a problem.

> To be totally specific, this is the car I would like to ""camperize""..

I think you need to watch some mafia & gangster filns. People definitely fit in the type of trunks you describe. 

 Neil Williams 16 Jan 2023
In reply to Robert Durran:

Berlingos aren't that long unless you get the rather odd looking 7 seat stretched version, though.  I used to have one and have kipped in it, and at 6' 4" you definitely can't stretch out!

A traditional large estate (Mondeo, Vectra/Insignia, Volvo etc) will give you the length.  Don't know about how long the classic UKC Octavia is, never lay down in one!

Post edited at 10:51
1
 65 16 Jan 2023
In reply to william55:

> However, my car has the other type of trunk, so... this is a problem.

Is your transport an elephant? I can't imagine it would make for a comfortable night's sleep.

 Luke90 16 Jan 2023
In reply to 65:

As in this abysmal film...


 65 16 Jan 2023
In reply to Luke90:

Dear God.

Looks well insulated though.

 jkarran 16 Jan 2023
In reply to paulguy:

> A bit left field but a seat Alhambra or VW Sharan offer a van like experience plus the seats fold down flat (individually) at the back, I think there might even be an option where the front passenger seat folds flat. I found it even more practical than the estates I normally bought. 

We have a Sharan as the works car. It's nice, very practical, car-like to drive and swallows an absolutely vast amount of stuff with a dash to back door load-bed when configured right. I borrowed it recently to move a big pile of 2'x8' floorboards. On the downside, I suspect they're pretty pricey to buy, ours seems to need regular niggly garage work and they are overall really quite big if tight parking is an concern.

I don't think the floor in my F31 3-series folds perfectly flat but pretty close, it'd be fine for an occasional kip.

jk

 Robert Durran 16 Jan 2023
In reply to Neil Williams:

> Berlingos aren't that long unless you get the rather odd looking 7 seat stretched version, though.  I used to have one and have kipped in it, and at 6' 4" you definitely can't stretch out!

Yes, I am 6'4 1/2". My wooden bed with comfy mattress and loads of storage under it goes up to the front passenger seat in its slid back position. To sleep I slide it forward and fill in the gap with bags (they have to go somewhere anyway) and pillows. The back of the seat provides a variable reclining backrest. There is room to sit on the bed and cook on a little food box/table. No

 Tyler 16 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine:

Mondeo estate obviously fits the bill but is also very good to drive and cheap to run. 

 LastBoyScout 16 Jan 2023
In reply to Jon Read:

> You'll perhaps need something to 'fill the gap', but there are lots of videos out there that do this for various cars.

Didn't mention, as not helpful to the thread as a whole, but we used to have a Vauxhall Carlton estate that actually had specific flaps to cover the gap between the back seats and the boot - they helped lock the folded seats down, too.

 Neil Williams 16 Jan 2023
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Yes, I am 6'4 1/2". My wooden bed with comfy mattress and loads of storage under it goes up to the front passenger seat in its slid back position. To sleep I slide it forward and fill in the gap with bags (they have to go somewhere anyway) and pillows. The back of the seat provides a variable reclining backrest.

Ah, so your head goes on the back of the front seat?  Does it fold fully flat?  The older type Berlingo I had didn't have that feature.  I can see that it'd work that way, whereas with the estates I mentioned you could fully stretch out in the back (I know you could in a Vectra, the load bay with the seats down is longer than 6' 6" because you can get a domestic door in it, and a domestic interior door is about the same size as a single bed).

Post edited at 14:07
 jimtitt 16 Jan 2023
In reply to LastBoyScout:

Some versions of the Austin Cambridge estates had an addititional flap on the back of the rear seat backrest which filled the gap completely flat with the front seats right forwards and this was actually padded to form ones cushion, leather upholstered as well!

 gethin_allen 16 Jan 2023
In reply to deepsoup:

I have a gen 8 honda civic, same seats as a jazz in the back but bigger. In honesty I think the magic seat design is the best bit of the car. The one thing that would improve it would be of you could take one part of the split seats out. 

Saying all this i still wouldn't really want to sleep in the car in anything other than extremis as sleeping in cars is miserable. Maybe this would be improved if you built a fabric inner tent in the car to deal with the issues of being uninsulated and lacking curtains. 

 justdoit 16 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine:

I have a vauxhall zafira 6 seater I took out the back seats and can lie completely flat comfortably. it still has 2 pop up seats in the back which fold down flat too. mines a 1.6 so goes well on a motor way for quite long journeys but drinks fuel on short stints. 

 aln 16 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine:

I had a Renault Extra van that was plywood lined. Slept in it all over the Highlands, at 5'11 it was long enough for me and my dog.

In reply to libertine:

What a wonderful post that highlights the slight insanity of our community. In any other walk of life, posing this question would have people backing away from you slowly, but here, everyone piles in enthusiastically! 
 

For what it’s worth, I have just returned to car camping on climbing trips after selling my camper, so can reliably inform the community that an Alfa Romeo Giulia is a wonderful place to sleep, seats fold fully flat and as a six footer I can sleep comfortably with all my gear and some 183 touring skis. 

 LastBoyScout 18 Jan 2023
In reply to Jon Read:

> Volvo V70s seats fold down flat, and the front passenger seat also folds forward, almost flat. You'll perhaps need something to 'fill the gap', but there are lots of videos out there that do this for various cars.

Reminds me - I have an occasional search on eBay for inflatable matresses/pillows and these often come up. The first is probably only useful if you're child sized, but the second/third would do the job of "filling the gap", if you're not stuffing your bags in the footwells:

Items 115654436615 / 385144064875 / 304265436470

Those are just 3 random examples - plenty more options like them.

Post edited at 09:59
 Ciro 18 Jan 2023
In reply to Jacknoblehawkins:

> What a wonderful post that highlights the slight insanity of our community. In any other walk of life, posing this question would have people backing away from you slowly, but here, everyone piles in enthusiastically! 

I think finding it odd might be a slightly comfortable middle class western lifestyle centric viewpoint rather than any other walk of life, but if we want to ramp it up a bit we could start discussing favourite types of pee bottles?

 Robert Durran 18 Jan 2023
In reply to Ciro:

> .......if we want to ramp it up a bit we could start discussing favourite types of pee bottles?

Wide topped nalgene, used kneeling in sleeping bag. Embracing the pee bottle is truly life changing.

 Jon Read 18 Jan 2023
In reply to Robert Durran:

... And use as extra hot water bottle? 

 Ciro 18 Jan 2023
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Wide topped nalgene, used kneeling in sleeping bag. Embracing the pee bottle is truly life changing.

Nalgene needs emptying too often. A 5L supermarket water bottle with the flip up handle can last several days, and whilst it is admittedly more dangerous to have a half filled bottle lying around the van, it is less likely to overflow if you hold it at an angle whilst peeing on your side over the edge of the bed instead of kneeling.

Of course, for this truly civilised experience you need a duvet, not a sleeping bag.

 Robert Durran 18 Jan 2023
In reply to Jon Read:

> ... And use as extra hot water bottle? 

Absolutely. No point in wasting bodily warmth.

 Denni 18 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine:

We have a Ford Grand Tourneo Connect, 1.5 ti.  It’s mostly bought as a 7 seater but we managed to source the 5 seater version.
 

With the seats folded down, I’ve no dramas lying down in it and I’m 6ft 3 and there’s bucket loads of room in it as well as having a high headroom. I can fit a smaller double blow up mattress in the back .

Also, monumentally comfortable, good MPG (we get about 570 to a tank) and have done many 1000 mile plus road trips in it without any hassle and it’s really good to drive.

Function not fashion

HTH, Den 

Post edited at 18:41
 GrahamD 20 Jan 2023
In reply to libertine:

I've been really pleased by my basic 308 estate, in an inexpensive, unsophisticated box on wheels knd of way.  The carriage space is large and flat, easy for sleeping and bike transport. 


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