UKC

Please correct me if I am wrong.

You can now drive in a car with people who are not family members or live in the same property as you?

There is no legal requirements for minimum social distancing?

You can exercise as much as you want as long as it's low risk?

As far as I'm aware climbing has been, and is the safest activity I have ever done. All my broken bones are from mainstream socially accepted sports activities that people would not even raise an eyebrow at when considering levels of risk.

Am I interpreting government advice wrong?

No, in England you can meet one other person at a time from another household outside if you remain socially distanced from them. I'm pretty sure I've got that right.

According to the college of policing there is no requirement in the legislation to be socially distanced and they have no power to enforce this unless the group is 3 or more in which case they can order you to disperse. 

Of course that doesn't mean that staying 2m away isn't a pretty sensible precaution as well as driving separately. 

Goes without saying

If only that was true....

I'm lucky though my girlfriend is a willing and competent second so climbing partners aren't the limiting factor when it comes to a return to climbing.

This is my understanding too. Which would make normal roped climbing difficult for most people. Assuming you can't climb with someone in your household it would be interesting to see if many people are out doing routes now. Mean I guess you could belay someone while staying 2m away at all times but seconding could get difficult as you come to top out and meet your leader, multi-pitch more so. 

So, following this in a common-sense way, a hired mini-bus can drop an even number of people/climbers/walkers at a large open space and the occupants can then disperse for the day to return later and drive back to their starting location?

I'm not trying to argue against spreading Covid, because we really do need to get on with our lives.

No, obviously not. Shared transport with someone outside your household is a clear breach of social distancing guidance. So not common sense - plain stupid.

Compared to?

Football, ice skating, martial arts.

All broken bones.

That a good enough answer?

What current social distancing guidance because there is no legal requirement of a minimum distance?

And there is guidance from the Transport Sec that people can share cars from different households.

The idea of sharing a car may be stupid, or not, however it is not against any law either Covid related or not so this is government approved common sense.

If any of this is factually incorrect then I really would appreciate being proved wrong.

But as it is, we need to get on with our lives as best we can while out in remote spaces exercising.

Here you are. Seems pretty clear to me:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-y...

There is a big difference between the words "Should" and "Must". The guidelines you directed me to state that we can exercise outside with one other person from a different household, and that you should observe 2 meters away from anyone outside your household, such as your climbing partner. However there is no law stopping you both hanging beside each other at a belay stance because there is no legal requirement to stop this.

So it would seem that you are agreeing with me and what I said in the OP is factually correct, going off the links you gave me published by the government?

Surely that's a gathering of more than 2 people while in the mini bus no? 

Police seem to think they can inforce that requirement?

I think this is half the problem, the official guidance is often contradictory and goes against common sense (even though we have been told to use our common sense). So in this example, we're only allowed to meet one other person from outside our household outdoors. But it would seem to say that we can travel in a car with multiple people from different households to the outdoors, where presumably we then have to disperse.

Trust me, I'm very concerned when out and about people in public spaces however government guidance state that groups of people can travel in the same vehicle. Printed on their website

So, provided the small group disperse at their destination into groups of two then they are following common sense.

People may not agree with this however it's in black and white.

No confusion to misinterpret?

I'd say it's far more risky going to a garden center. Most are buildings with people desperate to congregate and browse.

But what is the point in dispersing when you have already spent time confined together in a metal box?

Prison wagons are perfect for social distancing!

What's always amazed me through all this, is mini cabs still operating.
Driving around all day and night in a metal box with people less than 2 or 3 feet from each other.

Ahh sorry there i was applying common sense silly me. You appear to be correct but one assumes only because the guidelines/laws were drafted by an idiot.

You still can't be in groups of more than two people from different households outside. The police can order you to disperse.

No argument from me there.😀

However life must go on and we all have different interpretations of common sense.

The government have put their guidance in writing for us to interpret common sense.

I am more than happy to be proved wrong.

You appear to be deliberately taking the quote out of context by ignoring the previous paragraph:

The advice clearly is not saying that it is ok for you to choose to lift share with people outside your household for a non-essential journey to go climbing.

There was much scope for making the advice clearer and less ambiguous without people willfully misinterpreting it.

I cut and pasted the entire bit. I did not selectively ignore bits.

Here is the issue, we have two people interpreting the same guidance, using common sense and getting differing opinions.

Now multiple that by millions of people trying to interpret government guidance.

And climbing is not exercise?

The idea that you can interpret the guidelines to allow you to travel by car to go climbing with someone outside your own household is ridiculous. You seem, laughably, to be using the term "common sense" to mean twisting the guidelines absurdly.

Apologies, I missed the full quote from your earlier post, was responding to the later one which only had the second half.

A common sense interpretation of the full quote is not compatible with the conclusion that lift sharing with another household to go climbing is acceptable.

The rest of us are using common sense. You are not. That is why we are arriving at different opinions.

However what I am suggesting is allowed by what is printed on government website.

People in different households can travel together to any location in England to exercise.

Small groups can travel in a vehicle however non family groups must not exceed two people and social distancing is a guide not a legal requirement.

Excercise is excercise and climbing is excercise.

Am I alone in this conclusion?

Only if you completely ignore social distancing guidelines and consider a journey to go climbing "essential" and that there is no alternative to sharing a vehicle for it with someone outside your own household.

So you can not travel any distance within England to go exercising for as long as you want?

Yes, though I'm not convinced that was the intention of the guidelines.

Why don't you ask the Virus what it would prefer?  I'm sure it would be more than happy with a mini-bus full of people not from the same household. 

There is no law stopping two people from separate households sharing a belay stance?

I don't know whether it would be strictly within the law, but it would certainly be generally very problematical to share a belay within social distancing guidelines.

Common sense, and not the law,  may beg to differ if you can't keep 2 metres apart.

Further up the discussion was

You can drive any distance to do exercise of your choice for any length of time during the day

There is no police power to enforce social distancing between two people, such as at a belay stance.

OK, we can debate the vehicle travelling part, even though that is in black and white. However climbing is most definitely exercise and can be done with two people at a belay stance, and no law has been broken.

The law may be an ass, but I am allowed to use this as common sense.

Yes, the law may be an ass, but that does not mean that you should be one as well.

You are entitled to say that.

But we need to get on with our lives.

I’m afraid you appear to be selective in copy and pasting. The paragraph before describes “essential journeys”. Your quoted paragraph refers to “have to travel”. Read as a whole it’s clear the guidance is towards car shares for work. 

The only thing you have correct is that it’s in black and white😉

Yes, but I sincerely hope that most people do so without being a complete ass and flagrantly ignoring distancing guidelines as you seem to want to do - you are taking the piss.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rock_talk/how_busy_were_the_english_crags...

Im kind of glad I stay in Scotland as England sounds like the dodgems at the funfair. Not the best situation for everyone.