UKC

experience rather that opinions please!

Bob is a 12 week old golden retriever. I asked the breeder for her preference and she was for a collar. He’s been out for several short walks this week on a lead & collar and been really good, just getting to know the outside world as well as being collared.

Is a harness something to look at if he grows into a ‘puller’? If he grows to be like his sire he’s gonna be a big dog, german shep size and weight. 

I had a cocker 20 years ago (semi working) and he had a soft rope slip choke which we both worked well with, then a harness later in his life. Bob is a pet and won’t be working like harvey my cocker did so won’t need a choke to overcome his instincts. I believe chokes have their place on dogs that need them but on well behaved pets they nearly always aren’t needed. 

TIA

I can't help but looking forward to answers, we have a 12 week old Bichon and took him out for the first time last weekend now his jabs are clear. We got him a harness because he us such a tiny thing and very excitable I didn't want to risk damage if he got spooked and pulled on a collar. 

Neither harness nor collars either encourage or discourage pulling, it's the owner that does that. 

We use a harness. Started with it as when we got our dog he was 6 months old and had no socialization or other training. We got a harness to spread the load of lunging across his body to avoid damage. He pulled equally on either harness or collar. Now he largely walks very well, but I find that if I use a collar then I have to manage the lead more to stop it getting tangled in his legs. The back attachment on the harness stops this from becoming an issue. Our harness also has a grab handle which helps with lifting him over fences etc 

In my opinion you don't need a harness for a puppy you are training from scratch to walk nicely.  

Just praise and reward him when he does what you want like walking nicely to heel with the lead slack.  

I had a rescue dog that pulled strongly, I tried a harness but it didn't really help, if anything it gave him the advantage of a full body pull.  

A halti worked much better.  

However a harness might be useful for the car and for if you ever need to lift him (if older or injured for example) so I would probably train him to wear one happily too.  

I'd agree with that.  Nothing wrong with a harness or a collar.  

Tips on pulling?

(Not my dog and not a pup)

He's never going to pull me over but it's a pain in the arse, as is his crossing over. 

This is the one I used in the car https://www.dogstrustgifts.com/acatalog/Dogs-Trust-Car-Safety-Harness-WP_64...

It's fine to walk with it as well.  I used to leave it on all day if we were doing car and walking. 

If you do ever need to grab him a harness is easier to grab than a collar.  

Halti or other nose type of attachment  (a bit like a horse)  

Stop and change direction when he pulls  can help if you can be bothered to keep doing it. 

What about the shock if he gets spooked though? Spud took to it like a duck to water but he did panic and jump away when a couple of joggers came up behind us. 

Collar combined with proper training every time. A harness distributes the force of pulling evenly, meaning that it makes it more comfortable to pull. 

A collar and basic heelwork training is what you need, especially at just 12 weeks old. 

Maybe a harness is better then..

Not a normal walking harness, it distributes the load a bit but due to the shape it still pulls into the throat. Better than a collar if they lunge but still not comfy for really pulling. That is why you get special ones for canicross as they DO distribute the load. 

At the end of the day, it's not about whether they are comfortable pulling but rather have you made it rewarding enough to stay by your side!

Soft choke always worked to train both my big flat coat retrievers, only needed in the first 6 months.

They always lifted their heads for it when coming up to traffic, crossing's  ect  Normally no lead of any sort 

Full harness for on the hill ie  a bit of help on Snowdon Horse Shoe or when powder was getting a bit deep.

I like the (DOG) don,t start me on that

We never move at all when the lead goes tight (really dull, but they do get the message!) and reward well when they come back to your side and keep rewarding as they stay at your side. To begin with, this is heavy on rewards (our dog works for all of his food, so we use his dinner as rewards. He doesn't have a food bowl). As they understand it more, gradually reduce rewards. We also found a clicked worked really well. Click and reward when he is in the right position (have to train clicker in house first though).

Basically, make sure pulling is not rewarding and being next to you is. It's slow, but so worth it once they crack it 

My heavy lurcher has never learned to walk in a civilised manner, he pulls like a horse.

In his fixed size leather collar he can pull harder and he can resist being moved if he wants to stop and sniff but I have more control of his head to stop him getting into scraps. He can easily slip it having a meaty neck and little brain, luckily he never wants and thinks to at the same time. We had a martingale type collar for a while that was nice, it tightened when he pulled but didn't choke, I doubt he could slip it but he did snap it!

His harness makes him 2wd when he pulls as it lifts his front legs, it's also more secure but I can't control where the head end goes if it wants to start a scrap. Handy for pulling him out of rivers and up stiles.

Harness for running and around livestock, collar in the pub and around town by preference. Obviously I should train him better but we're both old and stubborn and have learned to get on as we are.

Jk

Dog 1 pulled with a collar and clip lead, perfectly happy with harness. Also the handle on top of the harness was a great extra hand hold when scrambling

Dog 2 pulled with a collar and clip lead. Walked backwards when we tried a harness. Slip lead works great 99% of the time.

Dog 3 we got age 6 months and had never been on a lead. Collar and clip lead - arm pulled out of socket. Slip lead - arm pulled out of socket. Slip lead in a fig 8 over nose - walks to heal, but not happy. 

(All spaniels of various types)

Cezza

Harness, if you intend to walk anywhere lumpy. Much more forgiving if the dog, or you fall off/ over anything. Also easier to extract a big dog if it falls in water, like a canal.

But like everything else, it will depend on the individual animal

I agree with all the comments about training the dog to walk to heal, all fairly straight forward if a little tedious at times.  I use a combo of collars, leads, harnesses etc becuase it signals to her exactly what kind of activity we're doing and signals how she needs to behave.

We generally use a collar / slip lead for day to day walks round the park etc.  She's pretty comfy on the slip lead as she now doesn't pull and will walk nicely to heel.  When she's out in wooded type terrain I tend to ditch the collar so it doesn't get caught on the undergrowth etc.

The harness comes out when we're running.  Partly because it spreads the load when we run and she is on the lead, but also she knows that when the running harness is on we're going running and that does change how she behaves.

When we're out in the hills then she wears a full climbing harness that captures her rear legs so shecan't fall out of the harness when roped up and scrambling etc.  Again the climbing harness signals that we're climbing or srambling and she knows that she can't go off to far and that she has to stay close to me.  For steeper sections she has a confidence rope and is generally attached to me.  There is very little risk to her pulling me off as she is a 6.5kg dog not a 40kg GSD!

Present pooch is a Husky. Past pooches were also Huskies. So we've had Huskies for about twenty years in total. They all were/are champion pullers. A semi slip collar didn't/doesn't really do very much apart from give me tennis elbow. Might be golfers but it's the pulling that does it.

We had racing harnesses in the past & have had Ruffwear harnesses. Both encourage the little blighters to go hell for leather especially if a deer was spotted.

The Ruffwear harness has a little loop at the front which does help withe pulling as it results in a sideways pull rather than straight on. That's the front range model. Not entirely escape proof but it's pretty good.

The Webmaster/Pro are ideal for hill work. Escape proof and each has a handle for assistance over obstacles. Past/present experience shows that they are excellent if you want pulled uphill and unfortunately down!

The only thing that worked for us especially in town was a Halti. Absolutely magic. I'd highly recommend one. Doesn't need to be for the life of the dog. They did slow down after about twelve!

Best of luck.

Thanks everyone, once again I’m pleased to have asked those that know rather than those that are trying to sell you something! 

As I suspected I’m on the right track, I just don’t want to be singleminded and charge on with what i think i know and get it all totally wrong.

Hes a good boy on the lead, from never wearing a collar to being able to take him out without any drama in a week says a lot about his potential. Indeed, he’s really learning about toilet time already, he associates wee/poo outside means a small treat. If anything it’s us that have learned more, you can’t just put the dog out, you have to walk around and make sure you’re on hand to see if he does anything and frequency is a lot higher than we first thought, every 45 mins throughout the day if he’s not sleeping seems to work, we’ve been poo free indoors for 3 days now. 

Im happy to continue with collar and lead but will be looking at a harness for trips out,  it’s going to make things far simpler when it comes to steep ground, styls and the like. I’m north Derby and can be in the peak in 45 minutes and we are there quite often as it is, now we are ‘with child’ i imagine we’ll up at least once a week come spring.  

To change track a little, what do you folks do for fuel while out? Bottle water or happy to let drink from rivers? Food- any recs for high energy treats for 2/3 hour walks? (not yet obviously!) his limit at the moment is only 20/30 mins but that’ll increase weekly i imagine. 

We’ve bought a M size dog cage and we’ve an estate car, i think by 3/4 full size he’ll enjoy more room by ditching the cage and getting a grill for the back to stop him coming over. We’ve took him out every second day in the car to get him used to the travel arrangements and he cry’s a bit but that’s to be expected, he’ll quickly learn that cage+car=adventure time. any travel tips for me? 

His breeder recommended a halti if he becomes difficult. She had 8 full sized GRs, a springer and 2 rotties, they had small farm estate to roam and you’d have thought they’d been rather territorial and protective but they were the friendliest dogs ever once we’d been introduced.

Glad he's doing so well, sounds like a lovely wee pup

I let mine drink from puddles and rivers, but he is a wee mutt who is tough as old boots. Dunno if you need to be more careful with breeds.

For treats, we mostly use his kibble (from his daily allowance, he works for all of it) and throw in a little chopped cheese or lambs heart to keep him interested if there is something more exciting going on! 

For travel, play games in the car while not going anywhere. Get him in and out and feed each time he is in. Do some basic sits, downs etc in there too. Feed him in there. Have the car as an extension of your house where he can have fun. Then do short drives with a stuffed kong or some sort of chew to keep him busy. Build up slowly and keep it fun and rewarding 

My springer walks well with a collar on the way back from a walk but rips up the tarmac pulling in excitement on the way out! I tried the Halti, but it only part way solved the problem. I was recommended the Gentle Leader which is similar to the Halti but gently turns the dog's head when she pulls. Problem solved.

P.S. The figure of eight over the nose is a useful remedy where you need control on a lead for a short period.

Mine preferred puddles to clean water, but he wasn’t a puppy.  I trained him to drink out of a paper cup out and about which was easier than a bowl.  

 I’m not sure if dogs need extra food for a long walk like humans do.  However he liked cocktail sausages, cheese and anything else as well as dog treats.  

Car harnesss above.  I found it easier to use the back seat because I didn’t have an estate at the time, but the boot is fine too.  Make sure you know how to “dog set” your car alarm if you need to leave him in there for a short while (obviously not in hot or freezing weather before everyone shouts at me). 

If i leave him in the car I don’t think i’ll be locking it so no worries about alarm. Cocktail sausages sound good as they do humans too! Have you still got your dog?

He’s buried at the bottom of mum and dads garden with several hamsters and my childhood dog.

He was 15 though so he had a long life.  

I’m pleased he had a great life, are you ready for another yet?

I always thought I’d be a dog person having grew side by side with a german shep, various uncles and their gun dogs, my own cocker and this little chap but what I never saw coming was the cat we had inbetween it all. I kind of enjoyed the chilled out, no drama lifestyle of a cat

In the UK, the Control of Dogs Order 1992 states that any dog in a public place must wear a collar with the name and address (including postcode) of the owner engraved or written on it, or engraved on a tag.

I prefer a collar for work generally, but a harness for the car when not using a cage and for canicross

I work full time and various things in life are not as settled as I'd want so it's not the best idea at the moment.  Cats make me sneeze and wheeze so that's not ideal either.  I will have another dog at some point, I do miss him.  

if that was the case (and i’m not doubting you) it would be interesting to see how many convictions have been secured from that

Bob has a tag, it’s simply says ‘microchipped’ and mine and wife’s phone number. 

Depends where you live! Don't go to the mean streets of Leicestershire.

http://www.blaby.gov.uk/news-and-events/press-releases/2018-press-releases/...

Harness - it spreads the load and it is far safer to use if your dog goes in the car.

Dave

I suppose I can see their point.  I found a dog once, if he had a phone number or postcode on  his collar  I could have called them myself or just taken him home.  Instead I had to wait almost an hour for the dog wardens to come and get him.  (He was definitely an escaped pet, well fed and in good condition and he didn't show up on the found dogs page)  

I found the same dog twice in a few weeks, and rang her owner each time, and then had a guy in a 4x4 ask if I'd seen his dog, and his dog turned up 5 mins later minus a phone number to ring (it accidentally went into 'a doggy house' where a party was happening - drawn by the atmosphere I think, so I counted my blessings and left it to them to sort it out). 

Edit: I always ask for a phone number now since the last dog, if somebody asks me while looking for one. 

But for the purposes of deciding between a collar and harness, it's irrelevant as you can put a tag on either!

I suppose the argument is that people don't leave the harness on the dog in the house and if it escapes, then there is a possibility that the dog hasn't got a visible tag.

Unfortunately a lot of people seem to also remove the collar too.  The one I caught wasn't in a collar which didn't make it easy.  But I see no reason not to leave the collar on as long as it isn't too tight. 

My daft dog only escaped once, and having successfully got out of the garden he plonked himself down on the front door mat and barked to be let in  

There have been stories of dogs who go nuts in the house when left alone ending up catching their collar on door handles or the like and strangling themselves. I'd imagine it's pretty rare, but I think the stories do the rounds and people take collars off.

Ours is naked around the house as he's nicer to stroke without a collar or harness on, he particularly likes his neck being rubbed.

I guess you have to know if you have an escaping dog.

In reply to maxamber:

Shock collars? (Haven't clicked the link). Illegal in some of the uk, and will be soon in England.

I think it's a bot.  Shock collars are a stupid idea.   

I think that user is now blocked - there was another post in the running section with a similar web address for equipment. 

Vet/ behaviour interest reply. 

harness with y shape e.g. mekuti or perfect fit. This takes the tension away from the delicate structures of the neck and doesn't inhibit movement of the shoulders like a Julius k9 style. 

 https://www.dogstrustdogschool.org.uk/training/i-want-to-train-my-dog/loose...

https://m.facebook.com/groups/443752889081347?view=permalink&id=1882161...

Also recommend the "positive puppy training and advice" facebook page. 

Yea i looked at his other posts, seemed very strange! 

not a shock collar but one of the dogs at the breeders was wearing a citrus spray collar to control his barking. she said it worked really well and far kinder than a shock collar.

Weve been cage training this week and got it wrong to start with. we had cage in kitchen and have been putting him in it for 30 mins a day and closing the kitchen door. He wasn’t happy at all with plenty of crying and barking. Wife asked some questions on a forum she’s on and following advice from there we’ve turned a corner for sure. Advised that he see the cage as a punishment as it is and to move it into the lounge were we are and move his bed in to it along with toys etc, leaving the door fixed open. He now sees it as his place and goes in on his own. He’s far happier with it now so  a few more days and we’ll start closing him in while we nip out for short periods and see how he goes. We were doing it all wrong initially so another thumbs up to the advice available on the good forums, you just have to sort through the wheat from the chaff 

My retriever never liked the crate. My young pup loves it- its his space and he lies up in it during the day (door open). The retriever took one look at it when i put it up and started barking at it - he remembered it from his puphood! They both had the same training, but one of them just took agin it!

Collar, for normal usage.  Take him out regularly on a lead.  The moment he starts to pull, stop and start walking backwards.  Once he's turned round and is walking back towards you, start walking forward again.  As soon as he pulls, stop, walk backwards and repeat.  It takes ages to get any where for a while, but they soon get the hang of it, and it's an easy refresh if they forget.  Always walk on the sam eside

Dog travels in the footwell or back of an estate car.  On a back seat, a harness is sensible.  One is not excuse for a dog that pulls. 

Ours particularly liked the crate covered, it made it like a wee cosy den for him. 

Sounds like you got good advice about it though.

Absolute dogs on Facebook have some great free videos. They are run by a Devon based training school called Devon Dogs, and their website has various DVDs. I really like their stuff, so could be worth a look.

The Halti isn't really for any sort of aggression. Ours were never  aggressive and the Halti was only to help stop the pulling. It worked!

We have found that it's not always possible to have a burn or a loch handy when you need one so we always carry water with us and a folding holder. Unless we were going really really long we never carried food but always treats.

Our first Husky hated cages with a vengeance. No matter what we tried he just didn't get it.  Our present pooch however absolutely loves it. Actually noses the cage to get in and sleeps all night quite happily.

If you're looking for "gear" try SASS. Good stuff and highly recommended. Manmat good as well bit it's pretty much 100% canicross and racing.

If you are considering a HALTI also look at a GENTLE LEADER depending on the dogs face shape as some of these will ride up into the eyes.

Thanks. Current pooch is pretty much like the other lot we had so it's probably a Halti before my forearm is disconnected from my upper arm. Got to love them though.

We have harnesses for both our dogs:

Makes it easier / safer to clip-in to car seatbelt

Basset hound as the lead is attached to his back rather than getting dragged through the dirt under his feet - he's now 12 but a very agile climber and will scale and leap-off quite tall walls - a Ruffwear harness with handle means I can pick his 30kg heft up easier when carrying him over stiles etc.

Labrador - our old one hated steep steps so I could control her far easier / carry if necessary. 

Harness doesn't replace the need to get them properly trained to walk to heel.

Bailey has a collar but it is only for his name tag. The little bugger can slip the collar easily because his neck is wider than his head. When out and about I use a harness.

I discovered very early that Patterdale Terriers constantly pull on the lead, or at least if you allow this to happen from the outset. To a dog, who ever is in front is in charge. So you have to be in charge not the dog. Your little fella will want to pull because the world is exciting and he wants to see stuff. If and when he pulls on the lead then stop and change direction. If you were walking east then you walk west. If the dog does not take the hint then play time is over and you both go home. If the dog wants to explore the world then he has do do so by your rules and not pull on the lead.

I had a six month battle of wills before Bailey grasped this. However from day one, he was allowed off the lead in a safe location.

Before Bailey, we had Ben who was a border colly. Excellent dog off the lead and would walk beside me but once on a lead he would pull continuously. I only ever solved the problem with a choke chain. Probably inexperience on my part but this worked for my colly.

I'm sure that you two will come to an understanding about using a collar, halti, harness or choke chain.

youtube.com/watch?v=y_lgIk7k2UY&

Tip with choke lead that worked like a dream with our Australian Shepherd, who loved to pull, was to move it up her neck so it's just touching the backs of her ears...for some reason, it stopped her pulling like magic. What was really nice was that with the choke lead in the normal position on her neck she'd pull so hard it felt cruel using it. Then discovered this 'just behind the ears' position and it was a joy to go walkies!

That, and changing direction, and lots of treats. Incidentally, I experimented  with clicker training, worked very well, then found I could get same result by just making a clicking sound with my mouth. Still using 'mouth clicker' today after 10 years.