UKC

So after reporting creepy old man trying to groom my step daughter and her colleague I understand that the police have 'had a word'. However, last week step daughter went into work to be told today is your last shift as all of her shifts are being given to someone else. She stayed and worked for 2.5 hours feeling very uncomfortable before she walked out. Today I am going into the café to collect her final wages and I have messaged the café owner to let him know that I am coming and how much I am expecting to collect.

What I have found out though is that he pays cash in hand and therefore she is not expecting any holiday pay. I'm wondering if I should tip HMRC off about this?

Anyway, wish me luck getting her money!

She's probably better off out of it. Any idea why she's been sacked?

Whether or not you tell HMRC may depend upon how your visit goes.

Well maybe she was sacked for getting the cafe owners creepy friend spoken to by the police. 

That's why I was asking.

Exactly!

I hope you get the money.  If you wish and as there is nothing to lose you could suggest you won't leave until he writes her a nice reference that you can take with you.  

Totally agree she is better off out of it. 

In that case I'd definitely let HMRC know. How is hygiene in the cafe by the way?

It's disgusting from what I've heard.

Time for a chat with environmental health then.  

Sorry to hear about that, and thanks a lot for the update

Good luck getting the money!

She's better off out and I have managed to find her a full time job at the pub in the village. She's saving up to go to NZ so it'll be good for her to get bar experience.

Surely the Kiwis are awash with bar tenders already. London's full of them!

While I'm glad to hear its sorted and she's well out of it I imagine she's a bit upset after working for two (?) years there, presumably liking it (until recently), and in no way is this her fault. 

If there's any difficulty getting her pay I suggest telling the owner that you're thinking of informing HMRC or any other relevant body. You might also consider putting an adverse comment in an online review....I don't usually do this myself as I dislike running down a business, but IMHO the owner deserves it in this case.

That's great, got another full-time job, nice work. Never easy getting one, as we all know

If he pays cash in hand your step daughter will have benefited for the last 2 years as presumably she has not being paying tax or ni.

so have a long think about the implications first before telling hrmc. 

I don't think they will blame a young girl.  

Good point. Probably she will be well below tax threshold however, but I don't know bout NI implications. Could still tell owner 'thinking' about contacting HMRC.

If she should have been paying tax then it is worth thinking about ........before rushing in...

HMRC are absolutely not going to be skewed by the age or gender of someone committing fraud

He paid up without either of us. Step daughter is going to look for pictures of the kitchen in a disgusting state as we think he'd love to have a visit from environmental health.

Bugger that.  Unless he wants to for his own satisfaction, there's no point the OP engaging with the owner beyond picking up the money his kid is owed.  If it was me I think I'd want to keep it short and to the point for fear of losing my temper with the bloke.

He should either contact HMRC or not, and if he does not out of spite but because it's the right thing to do.  I'd be inclined to just do it.  The cafe owner sounds pretty shifty, if they decide to get involved maybe it might help encourage him to take his responsibilities as an employer a wee bit more seriously.

Age and gender maybe not. 

One being an individual former casual employee who earns basically bugger all, is not required to complete a tax return and is well below the threshold where she'd be owing them anything regardless, while the other continues to run a business that presumably submits falsified accounts perhaps more so.

Arseholes. 

I was wondering about the OP calling environmental health like somebody else too, then had the thought that if it's a village type environment the daughter lives in, there may be ripples from doing so. 

On the other hand, there could be ripples in her favour if she speaks about what's happened at the cafe. Most people are decent.

While i basically agree a point was raised about possible tax/NI complications with for the daughter, it being cash in hand. Apparently the owner has now paid up so as you say no need to hint at action but just do what seems right.

You could probably contact them anyway I think and report concerns.

My main concern was, and is now even more, that the owner employs children and rather than a safeguarding policy appears to have a policy of enabling abusive behaviour and - now - punishing whistleblowers/victims.  I’m not sure how one would proceed with that concern; you might phone the NSPCC or speak with a competent safeguarding officer at eg a school you are involved with, to outline the situation as you see it and get them to have a think on what might be an appropriate next step for you to formally raise your concerns.

You might also contact the provider of employer’s liability insurance to the cafe business to express your concerns - the owner’s actions are clearly opening the door to all sorts of liabilities on both employment law and safeguarding law fronts.

I would make the police aware of this development; it suggests a close link between owner and weirdo that they may wish to consider.

Absolutely true. You and captain paranoia both make excellent points. 

Far better than HRMC. Environmental can close the place down immediately if it’s that bad. 

It struck me that the thing to do might be to stagger things, towards causing the most disruption for the cafe owner. Contact the Environmental Health first, then HMRC about his financial practices, then perhaps go to a no win no fee type about unfair dismissal, and go to the police as well. It possibly wouldn't all bear fruit or happen all at once, but it'd hopefully draw out any aggro for him. One may as well make a good fist of things.  

It sounds a bit evil, but it wouldn't be any less than he deserved, on the HMRC and environmental fronts, and unfair dismissal too. Depends on how vengeful they want to be I guess, but it popped into my head.

Does your step daughter have more than two years service?  If she does, and has been dismissed without warning, and following a fair procedure then it is likely to be a case of Unfair Dismissal.  (I'm not 100% certain but I'm not sure the tribunals care whether she's paid tax or not - thats a matter for the HMRC)

Unfair dismissal? I doubt there’s much of a case to answer if she wasn’t an employee in the eyes of the state and in any case certainly not until the threshold of 2 years’ employment had been met.

Just set Environmental Health on him and watch the fun. 

If she was on a zero hours contract (if there was a contract at all) the guy will just claim that she misconstrued his meaning. All he meant was this was her last shift this week not last shift permenantly. 

Just bubble him to the EA and the HMRC.. The lass might have to answer a few questions but her employer probably told her that he was deducting the correct deductions and giving her the balance. 

Yep. Revenge is a dish best served cold.

Or, where the EA is concerned, keeping it at about blood temperature for a few days...

I guess this goes to show what can happen when you try to take the softly softly approach. Your step daughter complains about the advances of a creepy old man and loses her job, how fair is that? I would have also made sure the boss didn't get his hands on the letters sent by his creepy friend. If things do go any further then there is only your step daughters word that the letter ever existed in the first place. You said in the last thread that the boss claimed the man was lonely and there was nothing sexual about his advances. If it were me the alarm bells would be ringing after the boss confiscated the letters sent by creepy old man and then sacked your step daughter. It sounds to me as if he is trying to cover something up or defend said creepy old man.

Gender isn't the issue and I shouldn't have mentioned it. 

Age and inexperience and being an employee rather than an employer I do think matters.  

I'd agree with this. 

I suspect any safeguarding person would suggest that he has already done the right thing calling the police.  However there is no harm in sending a letter to the local children's social services outlining the concerns.  I doubt they will do much but if they already have concerns it may add to a picture.  

I'd be concerned in case he employs someone with less bothered parents  

Something like that, a teenage friend used to like to space his joints out for the most effect, my brain flipped it around for aggro while I was washing up.  

I don't often plot dark revenge...

Oh, and if you hadn't already, mention the confiscation of the letters, and the apparent inaction.

Be careful not to be seen as starting a vendetta, though.