UKC

BBC reporting that Dominic Cummings (sorry, 'Downing Street') considers the Cummings matter to be closed...

Good luck with that...

Excellent subject now closed.

And in other news, Brexit looming on the horizon. Thank goodness we have 'He who shall not be named' still in power.

I really must incorporate these political techniques into my own life; any time my girlfriend gets angry with me, it will "be time to move on" until I declare "the matter closed"

Yes, we can only assume it worked equally well for Johnson in his private life.

Yes; he wasn't sure his dick was working properly, so he went elsewhere for a 'test drive'.

I've given you a dislike cos you've now put the thought of Johnson's johnson into my mind. An image I'd much rather do without. 

Keep saying it enough and it becomes true, right.

Sadly not that far off reality. Still, my money is on Cummings gone within the week.

What I really want to know is why he took the risk lying by omission about fuel/rest stops on the way home, it's trivial for him to confirm when and where he stopped from card records and his argument stands on him being outside the 14 day quarantine at that point so safe to travel. His lawyer will have been all over that statement, this detail was conveniently forgotten for a reason. What he said and when to Johnson is lost to us but there's CCTV of whatever it is he doesn't want us seeing from that drive home. Weird really, I can't even think what would be worth taking the risk to hide. Best guess is his wife was driving which invalidates the (obviously invalid bullshit) eye test excuse for her birthday jaunt. If I had a fuel station on the A1/M1 I'd be curious about what's on the CCTV and as I'm guessing his number plate is in the public domain from pictures of the media scrum outside his house the facts probably won't stay hidden for long. *If* that's the case, did he lie to the PM about it? that answer has to be a yes whether or not he did, Johnson knows from long experience what happens when you're caught very publicly lying to the boss. We're Johnson's boss. One or both of them go if that is what Cummings is hiding.

jk

Because by not making a statement either way means any further revelations do not disprove his statement. You can't be shown to be lying if you don't say anything, hence 'no comment'.

I get that but if there's nothing to hide why leave such an obvious, easily tidied thread for people to pick at? He knows they will.

jk

I've just been pondering the question about the timing of the breaking of this story.

Is it just coincidence that it occurred during a recess in parliament...?

If they knew the story was inevitably going to break, might they have precipitated it so as to avoid timely questions in parliament...?

Durham police now saying, following their investigation, that Cummings "may" have broken lockdown rules in relation to the Barnard Castle trip, and had he been stopped by the police he would have been told to go home. In line with their general policy they will not be taking any retrospective action in the matter. However this does not absolve Cummings of his irresponsible and hypocritical action which has completely undermined the government's message to the public.

Johnson has said he wants to move on because the affair is diverting attention from the main issue, which is to beat Covid 19.

I agree, and Johnson can rectify this and bring the matter to a swift conclusion by sacking Cummings now without further dithering.

BBC news now saying that the Police think Cummings may have broke rules.

Shouldn't that be Cummings may have broken the law, irrespective of how minor that is?

Not rules, but law.

I summon Judge Dread.

Or is he going to try another spectacular diversion tactic by announcing a whole host of goodies regarding lockdown (including pubs soon opening) in his briefing tonight?.......

Launching track and trace.

Someone asked the question as to whether you will get financial help if you are asked to self isolate. It wasn't clear whether this had been thought about...

I suppose they expect us to drive 250 miles to our family's estate, and sit it out there...

Actually. I'd love it if someone asks that question at the briefing...

I think it's too late for that. The point that undermined the governments's message to the public was the public support for the actions of Cummings by half the cabinet and the PM. So, ideally, they should take responsibility and resign. What happens to Cummings is secondary.

Who would believe the government if they sacked Cummings and said they were very very sorry that they supported him? (never mind that I cannot even imagine BJ understanding why such an apology might be relevant/necessary....)

they could ask but he's shutting them down and the scientists are gagged.....absolutely shameful. 

Oh but PM, this is just trying to make sure everyone is clear what the rules are...

Of course, you lead him into the bear trap gently...

Yes Johnson has to go now, he won't yet but he may be pushed after our second wave, as our neighbours recover and shun us while thousands die each day here again. We'll see, hopefully that's my pessimism talking but we're getting almost everything wrong and government is digging in for the cover-up not a recovery.

Jk

I really wonder, watching that briefing and hearing the caution and nervousness in the scientists tone, if the governments further relaxing of the lockdown has gone against what the scientists advised....(8000-9000 new cases a day still being suggested).

No, that would be a "Rat Trap".

Yeah, can't wait to get out of the EU and finally be free of those unelected bureaucrats.

So much better to be ruled by our own, home-grown, unelected, unaccountable autocrat...

The relaxation of restrictions is surely just a matter of making the restrictions fit reality. I’ve just walked through our local park and it’s chock full of large multi household groups. Now they’re dangerously irresponsible but by relaxing the rules they become a bastion of British Common Sense.

It's the same here, but you could tell the scientists weren't happy. I think they think it's too soon. 

Give the public what they think they want, which is what they are doing anyway, and let's not talk any more of 'He who must not be named'.

Judge Dredd might be better.

The anger will cool down. I am not sure why they need to keep repeating "just move on" as people will eventually do it anyways. 

I just hope people will not forget this next time they vote. 

Forget what?

People who have lost close relatives and friends will never 'forget'. The Cummings matter will remain open for ever because it is one of the most startling examples in our entire history of hypocrisy from someone very high in government.

I truly wish that were true.

It's up to us, the public, not to let Johnson brush this affair under the carpet, Write to your local MP stating your view. I have emailed mine (a Conservative) asking her to support calls for Cummings's dismissal. I don't know where she stands on the issue, but I have asked her to at the very least make my views. as her constituent, known to the PM. The more people who do this, the harder it will become for the PM to ignore it.

I heard someone on R4 day that the value of R is thought to be only just below 1. If so, it's hard to see it staying below now. Is it reasonable to assume England is either heading for second wave or an attempt to impose a stricter lockdown at some point?

You missed "contempt" and "disdain".

A harsher and earlier lockdown would have been so much more effective. Now I fear the effort will have been  wasted. Laughing stock may be an appropriate phrase if it weren't for the tragedy.

As I say, I'm thinking of the bereaved.

My goodness, one could make such a long list of his unsavoury characteristics. I simply mentioned the overriding one.

Fantastically, happily, our extreme-right Conservative MP (ERG etc) has written to the Downing Street today saying that she considers Cummings to have been entirely in the wrong. She said she had had 100s of letters from her constituents (one of them was mine, in which I said I did not want to hear of her again unless she actively campaigned to get rid of Cummings).

I wrote to Philip Davies (Shipley) as my local MP. He is a Boris fan but to be fair he did respond and said if he were Cummings then he would feel obliged to resign. He then broke cover the following day and publicly called for him to go, presumably after receiving a heavy mailbag on the issue. The change.org petition is at just under a million last time I looked. A source has suggested if this is still front page headlines on Sunday then he will go, the closing down of the scientists today will make some headlines tomorrow, 2 more days after that! 

You've persuaded me to write to my fairly extreme right-wing MP too. Got to be worth a go.

More chance than our ineffective venting here. I doubt the sock puppets are reporting back that the natives are getting restless.

I guess that's a different 'source' to the one LK uses...?

My prediction is that Boris will back Cummings to the hilt and both will tough it out.

However Cummings days are numbered and he will quietly be dispatched months later, maybe even in the new year if he can survive that long.

The Tory party then only have to wait four years to see how Brexit beds in, or see if Labour fek up in the mean time to decide to keep Boris or field a new Leader to bamboozle the electorate.

Have you written to your MP?

It's either now or never. Clearly, Cummings is 'too valuable' to the current government.

Quite what that value is, I'm not sure, given the obvious lack of critical thinking he has shown recently. If the rest of his thinking is at the same level, we're in trouble. So I can only conclude that he has fat dossiers on the PM and members of the cabinet.

Like others here, i too have emailed my mp - twice. I have yet to receive a response. I don't hold out much hope. Hes an ex ukip local branch founder who switched to the tories when Johnson was elected leader so he could jump on the brexit bandwagon.

Here's a simple question about the whole affair:
How much risk has he actually imposed on the general community?

I would suggest very little.  
However, I still think he should go because he's been caught with his pants down and the normal thing to do in such circumstances is resign.
I would also suggest, that most people put into such circumstances would do things that they personally think is best for them and their family.  If that means theoretically travelling further than necessary, etc. then I believe most people would take a pragmatic decision and do what's best for them.
One things for certain, I would and I'm pretty sure most people on UKC would do the same.
 

The latter is inevitable as the public get fed up of people dying willy-nilly and no end in sight.  It looks like we've got about 38,000 live cases today (assuming the cases we had 2 weeks ago have recovered), 1.4 times that of Sweden. We infected 2013 people yesterday, 3 times that of Sweden. If people think we can relax lockdown to Swedish levels and expect the same death volumes they're in for a shock.  Oh, and it's not a second wave, it's just unpausing the first as that one still hasn't passed us fully.

"Leading by example" is the relevant phrase.

The point is that the actions of any of us is unlikely to cause spread of the virus, individually. BUT, as a statistical population, every one of us counts.

Countering the spread requires all of us not to create potential infection pathways.

His actions erode public willingness to comply. It is not his actions, individually, but the knock on effect on the entire population. If everyone decides they're a special case (aka selfish dick), the whole approach falls down.

If, as some are suggesting, he has deliberately done this in order to create 'herd immunity', then he most certainly is the sociopath many have suggested. A murderous sociopath.

Someone noted to me today that there aren’t currently enough people getting infected to finish clinical trials of the Oxford vaccine.  I’m not yet that cynical.

Bollocks they would. 

You also missed "arrogance" and "entitlement"

"Quite what that value is, I'm not sure" - that is precisely what I was thinking - Cummings now looks about as useful as a 100-ton block of granite being carried in a small boat, i.e. he could drag the whole lot of them down to the depths - to me the question is, why isn't Johnson aware of that?

Anyway back to "Quite what that value is, I'm not sure" - I have concluded that Johnson, against all logic, sense, and political ability - is just being loyal to his mates/ those who supported him (which would be spectacularly wrong, not to say stupid, short-sighted, and politically crazy)

The whole thing makes me sick. Same for millions of people in the UK, I'm sure

I just hope that at the time of the next election all the governments lies, manipulations, etc are remembered and publicised.

On the Cummings issue.

What we must all remember is that he did nothing wrong because he is a senior person within/close to the highest levels of government and therefore has never made a mistake. When was the last time a UK government(of any persuasion) admitted they had got something wrong?

Dave 

The electorate forgot about all the lies only 6 months ago during the last general election. In 4 years their minds will have been wiped of all Tory misdeeds.

Unfortunately, I think you are correct.

Dave

with 9000 new cases a day and a yet further relaxed version of lockdown I'm not sure we'll have to wait long for that not to be the case.

I emailed my MP Michael Gove this morning. 

Told him what a great guy he is and keep up the good work. 

In all seriousness I am massively concerned about the impact the PM's decision will have at this crucial and delicate time of controlling the virus. 

Me too, what timing that was - THANKS FOR NOTHING, CUMMINGS

They won't forget about COVID-19, our government incompetent response and the Cummings episode....no chance. 

It will rather depend on whether the media continue to run with it, I'm afraid.

So it was not his actions.  But people being told about his actions.  Which you have been shouting from the rooftops ever since.  You are more responsible for that effect than him.

How many extra deaths has the political point scoring caused  ?

This is gaslighting.

Never forget

Even assuming his account is accurate, that this was the only reasonable way to look after his child, I'm not sure I agree with your assessment. However, a few counterpoints:

1) He is a high-ranking government official who had a hand in making the rules. His failure to adhere to them is far more significant that Joe Public.

2) The scandal runs so much deeper than just a single act of rule-breaking. His lies and the government's protection of him have magnified it tenfold. If he'd apologised and resigned, it would be out of the news cycle now.

3) Most of us don't have parents with a huge estate in Durham containing separate houses and woodlands, so it's rather a moot point whether we would or not. Is Cummings part of the North London Metropolitan Elite? Is this what he meant when he once told reporters they ought to occasionally "get out of London"?

Johnson is aware of this, but Cummings has kompromat on him. My guess is that it's all tied up with the missing Russian inquiry. I wouldn't be surprised if there's enough corruption, embezzlement and effective treason to send them both down for a very long time.

Odd logic. There would have been nothing to shout about if Cummings had adhered to the guidelines in the same as the majority of the population has been doing. He should be responsible for the consequences of his actions. 

There is a difference though. Johnson and Cummings are behaving precisely as they have behaved since the referendum campaign, but the crisis is now one that is current, non-partisan and whose consequences are with us now in the form of tens of thousands of deaths, not a hypothetical future. People are starting to see through them now. It shouldn't have taken such extremes for people to see it, but I doubt they'll go back to seeing Johnson as a "bit of a laugh" or a Churchillian leader now.

I very much doubt Johnson will be leading the Tories into the next election.

Cummings started it, Sir.

This really is, how it starts. The next stage is to 'protect' the public from news that might confuse or agitate them.

So has this been news ?    Or a concerted effort to agitate and stop people isolating ?

Most I speak to are not really interested unless you are a passionate against the Tories. .

Other people have got more pressing issues.

Hate to burst the Cummings bubble, it is yesterdays news for most people. Remember that most people had never heard of him until now.The petition fizzled out and is a reflection of peoples concerns.

A photograph of him in Castle Barnard might have nailed him, but alas one does not seem to be available at the moment.

And tomorrows Fish and Chip paper pops up

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/coughing-mp-admits-travelling-250-185649705.html

You know this for certain? It sounds like wishful thinking to me. And I'm not sure why you think the petition fizzled out - 

https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/28/petition-dominic-cummings-sacked-set-hit-100...

I agree, which is why I said he should have resigned.
As for Johnson, he should have distanced himself from Cummings and criticised him so that he had no choice but to resign if he didn't do so on his own accord.

Well, he has. 
Which means he does have options not available to most of us and chose to use them - lucky him!
Saying that most of us don't have that luxury isn't relevant and is hinting that you don't find it 'fair' that he has and therefore shouldn't be allowed to use them.
 Whether he broke the law/guidelines seems to be open to debate and some will use that for political leverage and some will just shrug their shoulders, call him a tosser and get on with their lives.
 

The story has been all over the news for a week, the petition has been in media including national press, as it’s change.org anyone can sign, and it’s not yet reached a million from 945k when that article was written yesterday.  Looks like fizzling out to me.

That's the thing, now most people have heard of him. Political geeks knew he was the one pulling the strings and now the wider public know. It was never going to bring down the government, but it is significant event in the long game.

Don't be silly

https://dominiccummings.com/category/economics-finance/game-theory/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory

Just an example of the word can mean different things, like many English words.

Your suggestion that the undemocratic nature and incompetence of the government should be ignored by the media or opposition, presumably for some 'greater good', is ridiculous.

Looks like he's got away with it to me.  No mention on the lunchtime news today.

I very much doubt it is of any real significantce long term.Its a blip.

They are more likely to remember if their economic prospects have been screwed by the pandemic and the consequences of that and how the govt performs in that area.

... as closed as a festering sore..

I wouldn't bother summoning the Attorney General as she's already told us how she'd find. This is why the Durham police have taken the knee. 

Can’t see him having that much power.  You’re going too far David - it will have had a small effect overall, and it’s definitely news.

That’s now the job of Twitter, Facebook and YouTube.  Off topic I know but that’s actually happening and is seemingly well supported for our own good, no one has stopped the press talking about Cummings.

That just reflects who you talk to.  Everyone I speak to, a large number of whom almost certainly voted Conservative,  are absolutely incensed by the hypocrisy exhibited here.

And just now I found NO mention at all on the BBC-UK webpage; and NO mention at all on my Google News page

The fact-check is on the front page on the BBC app.  Not on top read stories any more though.

OK - thank you 

Race riots in US have come to his rescue.

Don't talk nonsense. This was a "found committing" offence, where the policy has been to "engage, explain and encourage" and only if that fails, and the direction to comply isn't adhered to, then issue the hefty penalty of a 60 quid fixed penalty.

As Durham have said, he might have committed an offence. If they haven't actually stopped him, and haven't actually spoken to him to see exactly what he said, it's pretty much impossible to categorically state if the offence was committed.

This has never ever been about policing and only slightly about law.  It's worth highlighting that the guidance we have been asked to adhere goes far further than the law defines. For example - the requirement to socially distance by 2m isn't included in the English regulations.

This is about a senior advisor to the Government who has been involved in determining guidance for the rest of the country who has failed to follow that guidance himself. 

The Mirror and Guardian had been sitting on the story for three weeks. They had two sources, one for each story. The source for the second story didn't want their story to be published, I think they didn't want to be identified. Eventually it was decided to publish just the first story once the shit hit the fan the second source changed their mind and allowed the birthday trip to Barnard Castle to be published.

I think the Mirror and the Guardian just felt it was time to publish.

I don't think Cummings is the man to focus on. His offensiveness is obvious. But it is the office of Prime Minister that carries before it duty and moral authority, irrespective of which party holds that office. The unequivocal support that a Prime Minister gives to a situation that undermines medical and police authority is where it is at. I think the PM is not off the hook and as soon as Cummings turns up at no 10 Downing street, the moral authority of the Office of PM is at stake and it is that that should be impeccable. So by not focusing on that but on the man, Cummings, one is missing the point and the deep outrage to the moral authority of governance. But papers  just focus on the man and that is a subject which fades with the next most eye catching headline. 

Remember the Act of Prorogation, how it  was contorted, how the very fabric of democracy was at stake and there was a supreme court case and the government was found against? Same man, same playing fast and loose with the law , same impact on the moral authority of governance. He has form.

You are right, although in some ways Suella Braverman's joining in of the orchestrated pro-Cummings PR campaign on twitter is in some ways an even more stark betrayal of what is supposed to be an impartial position.  

You clearly know a lot more about the application of the regulations than I do. Fair play. 

You seem to agree that the spirit of the regulations has been trampled on. 

I suppose that the Attorney General can say anything about the matter because it's not a legal case? 

Apologies if I seemed to be traducing the Durham police. 

This is the Tory way, divide and conquer.

Boris may look like a buffoon, but he has a scapegoat to offer if/when his ratings dive or the death toll goes too high.

And if Cummings has real dirt on Boris, then Cummings is going to get a hefty bung.

I see your point in the game of political hackery which could be used for to aid Boris by getting rid of Cummings.

However,  It is  a pandemic and the focus is on that particular priority issue at the moment and like it or not, the Conservatives are in power and have the role of governance. The very least  should be that sitting PM and those around him have to have a moral authority on this particular issue. It is the principle of it, beyond political hackery. I'm sick of the prevalence of political hackery over substance the Conservatives display. 

Long term, people will still judge Johnson.

There seem to be plenty of lawyers who would disagree with that.  Eg:
https://goodlawproject.org/news/the-attorney-generals-conduct/

Thanks for that real information. 

I entirely agree; my OP was referring to Johnson's comment about the matter. The fact that he hasn't either demanded Cummings resignation, or sacked him, shows how weak and incompetent he and his cabinet are, and how reliant/beholden they are on/to Cummings. Not that I'm convinced that Cummings is any more competent, if this episode is an example of the quality of his thinking.

My issue was with your comment about Durham "bending the knee".

The AG comments? Out of order, and lambasted by many legal commentators.

Personally I think Cummings has breached both the guidance and the legislation, it's just that he won't necessarily be liable for a criminal penalty.

I think Ian Hislop has opened the story again. Good for him.

youtube.com/watch?v=y2vZ4eNyfgM&

The papers seem to have lost interest though. Standard political scandal with a short shelf life?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs/the_papers