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/ David Davis: a Cassius for the Brexit age?

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Pursued by a bear - on 09 Jul 2018

David Davis has resigned as Brexit secretary, it is reported ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44761056 ).  So is this the start of the process that leads to Theresa May's 'Et tu, Brute?' speech?

Mind you, I don't wish to push the analogy with Julius Caesar too far.  After all, I think it's been a long time, if ever, that anyone described David Davis as having a 'lean and hungry look'.

T.

George Ormerod - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Beginning of the end for the Tory Party as the walls of reality close in on Brexit?

2
Oceanrower - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to George Ormerod:

Or the beginning of the resurgence of the Tory party as the nation realises it doesn't actually want a Brexit after all?

 

EFS.

Re-edited after I realised I spelt resurgence correctly the first time!

 

 

Post edited at 00:33
George Ormerod - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to Oceanrower:

I don’t think the nation has realized that. But if there’s a hard Brexit, it surely will. 

1
cander - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

It takes Boris to resign as well, then a vote of no confidence by the opposition and it’s a general election in a couple of months.

RomTheBear on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Classic brexiteer. Throwing the toys out of the pram and giving up at the first whiff or reality.

10
BnB - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to RomTheBear:

Counter-intuitively, his resignation strengthens TM’s negotiating hand in Brussels even as it signals weakness closer to home. The last thing Brussels wants is for her government to collapse with the clock at two minutes to midnight.

Davis’ resignation letter focuses not on criticism of the policy direction but on his fear that it invites the EU to drive further concessions from the UK. The possibility of a coup is the strongest available deterrent to this occurring. Watch closely for positive signals from Brussels this week aimed at shoring up the PM.

It’s likely that a leadership challenge is one of DD’s options but he may actually have made that harder for himself. We should all hope so.

pasbury on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Who can she put in his place?

stevieb - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to BnB:

He’s still at about 40/1 with the bookies. That would suggest that he has little support amongst the mps, because surely right now he has little to lose

cander - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to pasbury:

Amber Rudd

Bob Hughes - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to pasbury:

Gove

3
Dave Kerr - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

This whole thing started as a Tory power struggle and that it remains. The rest of us are just along for the ride.

2
cander - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to Bob Hughes:

Though I agree Gove is important, he’s the arch traitor who enabled May to succeed Cameron.

neilh - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to BnB:

Always felt as though he was going to resign at some stage.He is one of those politicians who  can never deliver anything because to do so means he has to compromise.

In the real world life is always about compromise.I will give Davies credit for saying he cannot deliver the plan as he does not believe in it.

As Gove has clearly nailed himself to the plan I doubt TM is going to fall.

BJ is a busted flush after the Heathrow vote anyway.

We have to remember that the cabinet vote was clearly in favour of the new plan. It was not even a close vote. 2 or 3 to 1 in favour of it.

Trangia on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to cander:

> It takes Boris to resign as well, then a vote of no confidence by the opposition and it’s a general election in a couple of months.

Excellent time for a General Election which would hand the poison chalice to JC and Co............Do they REALLY want it now? Does anybody? 

1
The Lemming - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to pasbury:

> Who can she put in his place?


Gove.

Now there is a principled man who will back you to the end.

krikoman - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to pasbury:

> Who can she put in his place?


Boris, will sort it all out.

krikoman - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to cander:

> Though I agree Gove is important, he’s the arch traitor who enabled May to succeed Cameron.


I think they were taking the piss, when they suggested Gove.

Bob Hughes - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to krikoman:

> I think they were taking the piss, when they suggested Gove.

Actually I wasn't. Laura K at the BBC and Robert Peston both wrote this morning that a lot of people are saying he'll be the replacement for Davis. He made a big show of being supportive of the plan over the weekend and, of course, is an arch brexiteer.   

deepsoup - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to neilh:

> I will give Davies credit for saying he cannot deliver the plan as he does not believe in it.

Way too much credit. 

He cannot deliver the plan because he's thick as mince.  He spent a lot of time on his referendum campaign telling us all how easy it would be to do a deal - the living embodiment of the Dunning Kruger effect, too thick to grasp the scale of the task or the depth of his own incompetence.  The man couldn't deliver a f*cking pizza.

1
neilh - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to deepsoup:

And yet voters bemoan politicians who do not stick to their principles......

Bob Hughes - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to Bob Hughes:

> Actually I wasn't. Laura K at the BBC and Robert Peston both wrote this morning that a lot of people are saying he'll be the replacement for Davis. He made a big show of being supportive of the plan over the weekend and, of course, is an arch brexiteer.   

Just read that its Dominic Raab. 

RomTheBear on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to BnB:

> Counter-intuitively, his resignation strengthens TM’s negotiating hand in Brussels even as it signals weakness closer to home. The last thing Brussels wants is for her government to collapse with the clock at two minutes to midnight.

> Davis’ resignation letter focuses not on criticism of the policy direction but on his fear that it invites the EU to drive further concessions from the UK. The possibility of a coup is the strongest available deterrent to this occurring. Watch closely for positive signals from Brussels this week aimed at shoring up the PM.

> It’s likely that a leadership challenge is one of DD’s options but he may actually have made that harder for himself. We should all hope so.

It's not counter intuitive, it's bleeding obvious. His resignation doesn't come as a surprise and in fact was quite obvious for a while since DD has been sidelined for a while with Olly Robbins running the show. As far as Brussels is concerned this doesn't change the parameters, it just clears up the ambiguity as long as May can keep the government together.

There won't be a leadership challenge because any new leader no matter how good will have the same fundamental problem as TM : no majority, and no Brexit solution that Parliament can back. 

As for the EU, their reaction will largely depend on whether May's fudge of the century is in fact the maximum she can concede, or in fact the outline of a path towards a Norway-type solution - because obviously what is in there now is completely unworkable.

 

Post edited at 10:43
1
pasbury on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to Bob Hughes:

> Just read that its Dominic Raab. 


Cue quick visit to Wikipedia to find out who the hell he is!

neilh - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to RomTheBear:

Must admit I thought TM looked relatively relaxed last week prior to the Friday meeting, she knew she was going to win the argument and sideline the extreme hardliners ( and probably foresaw that DD would resign).

galpinos on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to pasbury:

Google "British Bill of Human Rights"..........

paulcarey - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to pasbury:

He's the one that always reminds me of Alan B'stard from the 'New Statesman'....

neilh - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to neilh:

And now its come out he is only met Barnier for 4 hours of meetings... the lazy little b~~~d.

What on earth has he been doing FFS.

cander - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to neilh:

Combing his hair obviously 

wercat on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to neilh:

with his background perhaps he's been re-enacting scenes from "The Professionals" - as Cowley?

Post edited at 12:25
Dave Garnett - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to paulcarey:

> He's the one that always reminds me of Alan B'stard from the 'New Statesman'....

Me too!  

Bob Hughes - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to pasbury:

> Cue quick visit to Wikipedia to find out who the hell he is!

We now he's Raab C Brexit. BOOM! BOOM! 

(credit to Twitter for that gag)

 

krikoman - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to Bob Hughes:

> Actually I wasn't. Laura K at the BBC and Robert Peston both wrote this morning that a lot of people are saying he'll be the replacement for Davis. He made a big show of being supportive of the plan over the weekend and, of course, is an arch brexiteer.   


I do beg your pardon. Gove sholdn't be in charge of his own pants as far as I'm concerned, two faced, lying, back stabbing, bastard.

 

I could go on.

 

1
cander - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to krikoman:

So he’s a politician, no surprises there then

Bob Hughes - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to krikoman:

yes, fully understand why you might have thought i was taking the p*ss.

 

Tringa on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Thought it was interesting that he resigned yesterday and not on Friday at Chequers - perhaps he wanted a lift back in his ministerial car.

Also thought it was interesting that he seems to be saying this current Brexit policy will cause the EU to drive further concessions form us. Isn't that going to happen anyway - we suggest a position and they put forward a different proposal  - its called negotiation. 

However, it is negotiation where the rest of the EU hold, if not all, most of the cards. It appears many of the hardliner Brexiteers think we can somehow tell the EU what they must do. They are going to drive a hard bargain; why would they do otherwise?

 

Dave

Pursued by a bear - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to Tringa:

I suspect that we won't have to wait too much longer to find out who Brutus is.

T.

Bob Hughes - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to Tringa:

> Also thought it was interesting that he seems to be saying this current Brexit policy will cause the EU to drive further concessions form us. Isn't that going to happen anyway - we suggest a position and they put forward a different proposal  - its called negotiation. 

I think he mean that we shouldn't give away too much too early because whatever we offer they will push for more concessions. 

krikoman - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to cander:

> So he’s a politician, no surprises there then


Well there is a bit of difference, to be honest. I'd say Gove is spectacular in his fibbing, "I'm backing Boris", "I won't be putting myself forward for leader".

I realise many MPs tell porkies, but if there was a league table, Gove might well be leading the premier league.

pasbury on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

> I suspect that we won't have to wait too much longer to find out who Brutus is.

> T.


I think we just have!

RomTheBear on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

When are the tories going to be done f*cking up the country, I wonder, over their stupid infantile bickering over Europe ?

They disgust me, they are not acting in the interest of the country. This uncertainty they are creating has consequences for people, especially EU citizens, and for businesses.

 

1
cander - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to RomTheBear:

What ever you think about the pros and cons of Brexit - the Brexit deal and the approach to the EU post Brexit is important, indeed if there is an issue over which a politician should consider their position it’s Brexit, it’s the most important non military issue for the U.K. since the Maastricht treaty tied us closely to the other EU nations. Are they being totally selfish and self serving, possibly in Boris’s case (although I’m not convinced yet), but I’d say certainly not David Davis (I agree he’s a bit thick, lazy and not very inspiring) but I reckon he’s had a opportunity to reflect on the TM deal since chequers (it would have taken him a while because of all the long words he’d have to look up in the dictionary) and genuinely believes he can’t be the head of a negotiation he doesn’t agree with (as an aside I don’t see DD as having a political career as such, he’ll be a back bencher until he retires, Boris on the other hand has ambition in spades and will be much more calculating with his moves - but that’s politics).

The key figure in this is still Gove and since he back stabbed Boris he’s got nowhere to go apart from TM (so I don’t see him quitting) and that will keep many Brexit Tory MPs inside the tent rather than outside the tent., if I’m wrong and Gove quits TM is kippered.

Post edited at 17:19
RomTheBear on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to cander:

Indeed it is a very important issue hence why there should be an evidence based, pragmatic debate in Parliament as to the way forward, instead of childish games.

 

Post edited at 17:34
cander - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to RomTheBear:

Parliament doesn’t govern the country, the cabinet does. That’s our system of government and it’s probably not a good time to change it just now.

cander - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to RomTheBear:

However looking on the bright side, TM isn’t losing Ministers as fast as Jezza lost his shadow cabinet, so she might just hang on.

RomTheBear on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to cander:

> Parliament doesn’t govern the country, the cabinet does. That’s our system of government and it’s probably not a good time to change it just now.

Well yes but that's not the issue.

RomTheBear on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to cander:

> However looking on the bright side, TM isn’t losing Ministers as fast as Jezza lost his shadow cabinet, so she might just hang on.

Probably she will, Boris will just wait for the car crash after March 2019

Wingeing Old Git - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to George Ormerod:

> Beginning of the end for the Tory Party as the walls of reality close in on Brexit?

They said that in 1846 with the repeal of the Corn Laws.

earlsdonwhu - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

 

/ David Davis: a Cassius for the Brexit age?

David David: a dickhead in any age.

1

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