UKC

Can anybody (maybe someone from the Town Hall) tell me how it is decided how many disabled parking spaces there should be in a car park?
The question is prompted by trying to find a parking space at a popular beauty spot the other Sunday. All the general spaces were taken and there were several cars driving round in circles hoping to jump into a space if someone left but there were half a dozen empty disabled spaces.
Since then I've been taking a bit more notice and the same happened at my local shoppers car park today - all the general spaces gone, people driving round in circles but three empty disabled spaces. Is this a national situation? I fully understand the need for disabled spaces but is there an over-provision based on some worst case scenario?
Who decides the ratio and how is is arrived at?

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

There is a ratio, what it is I don't know, but if you think about it there needs to be alight over provision of disability spaces, because there needs to be a higher likelihood of a space being available, because the option of walking from a bit further away generally isn't an option.

In reply to The New NickB:


What he said

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

There is a ratio, I used to know it off by heart when I was designing things like, e.g. car parks. Sadly that bit of information appears to have been forgotten in the 15 or so years since.

In reply to Wiley Coyote: You're thinking about it the wrong way around.

Think back to 1995 or so. A disabled person couldn't get on a bus, taxi, couldn't get up a kerb or into many buildings.

The DDA regs were designed not for the amount of disabled people who ARE out and about, they were designed to give the facility for ALL disabled people to be out and about, where practical.

In reply to Wiley Coyote: Are you disabled?

In reply to Wonko The Sane:

Like!

Yeah, funnily enough, when you rely on these things you never seem to notice all these allegedly unused spaces either, but instead how much of a pain it is to find one when and where you need them plus non-blue-badge-users parked in them...

In reply to Wiley Coyote: hows f*ck off sound? try been disabled its hell enjoy your life...........

In reply to mariechen:

Like John Terry's Bentley, for example...

What really gets me is carers using them when the disabled person is not with them. Sorry. I have seen carers etc park in them at Tesco, and even assuming they are going shopping for that person they do not need to use it.

In reply to mariechen:

A real pet hate of mine. These feckers should be clamped and fined with the majority of the proceeds going to charities.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

I was in one the other day where there was an insane amount of disabled places relative to normal ones. It looked like they had built it with a reasonable ratio but then sold off a big chunk of the spots as assigned parking for offices. The offices were not buying disabled spots so in the remaining unassigned spaces the ratio of disabled to normal spots was unreasonable.

To make it worse you had to get a ticket on the way in so once you were in you couldn't get out without paying. The system was presumably tracking entry and exits and knew there were spots left but not that all the remaining spots were disabled spots. The result was it kept letting people in and they were driving around in circles until they got frustrated and parked on a disabled spot.

In reply to Wiley Coyote: I don't know what the ratio is for things like supermarkets or just general car parks but I don't think car parks for places like climbing walls or ropes courses or anything generally aimed at people who are more able than an average person should need to have the same ratio simply because I very much doubt the percentage of disabled people going to these places is going to be equal to the percentage of disabled people in the general population.

In reply to Wiley Coyote: There does often seem to be a disproportionate number, but my mum's disabled and a blue badge holder and I can never find one when she's in the car!

Having to park 100s of yards from the shops because a police propaganda van had parked across the only disabled bays was a laugh...

In reply to Submit to Gravity:


They do seem to believe that parking rules/regulations/laws don't apply to them. They frequently park on double yellow lines and in bus stops around here when there would be perfectly adequate parking a few yards further down the street, especially when all they're doing is calling into the shops.

In reply to dale1968:

Right. Now take a deep breath and re-read the OP, notably this phrase "I fully understand the need for disabled spaces...."

In reply to Wiley Coyote: so whats to carp about then? it cheap shots, walk, you can I presume? I and most disabled people wont be at tescos on an evening and do most during the working week, presumably while your at work, what do you want less spaces? I think if your ever in need you would not be talking such utter tosh, BTW I am angry at your lack of concern for others, but only for your own selfish needs if you can climb E3 YOU CAN WALK FAR ENOUGH

In reply to dale1968: There's nothing wrong with having a grumble if you can't get your slot at your regular dogging spot.

In reply to Wiley Coyote: Did you watch the paraolympics ? If these so called "disabled" people can run/jump/swim so fast, then surely they shouldn't need any concessions to having parking closer to the door of Asda ?

In reply to mariechen:


Maybe some of the non badge holders are actually disabled? It is not a legal requirement to apply for a blue badge if you are disabled, nor is it to be registered disabled, and you can be disabled and not qualify for a badge for various reasons, eg intermittent disability (blue badge requirements are now alot more strict than many (most?) badges currently in use and alot may not get them reissued when they expire. Also,on private land, there is a legal argument that if someone is disabled in terms of the law, but does not hold a blue badge for whatever reason, they are still entitled to use a disabled bay, and to deny them (ie a supermarket insist that they hold and display a blue badge) is a breach of the EU law on human rights. Make of that what you will.

In reply to PeterM:

Agreed. And I can think of a fair few places I'd like to see the clamp attached to. All of them painful.

My dad - disabled badge holder - now no longer with us - once collapsed and was in a very bad way indeed after trying to walk from the far end of Sainsbury's car park as the disabled spaces were all full.

Given I know the Sainbury's concerned, the disabled spaces are often fairly busy with arrogant t*ats in 4x4's (who park there becasue their cars only just fit into normal spaces and they worry about their paintwork) and women with kids who think that the disabled area is an extension of the "parent and child" area.

Obviously, on that particular day, it's possible all the disabled bays were full of disabled people, but I doubt it.

In reply to dunc56:

Interesting comment.

I wonder whether the able moving paralympians actually use the spaces.

I presume you are discounting the wheelchair users as they need more space to exit the side of their cars.

I also presume you are discounting those with lower limb loss that need more space to exit the space.

I also presume you understand that the spaces are both closer to the stores/amenities to serve the disabled with mobility restriction and are wider to accommodate access issues. As these requirements tend to be lumped together by the parking provider to reduce costs, those that are more mobile get the perk of being nearer the stores etc because of being placed in spaces also made for the less mobile.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:
As a parent of a child in a wheelchair my strategy when I see a 4x4 driving tw*t without a badge in a disabled space is:

- write note and leave it on their windscreen with words to the effect of "I am a selfish tw*t please feel free to vent your spleen at me in the strongest possible terms"

- drive around the car park, find an attendant, drive them back to the offending car with the promise of easy ticketing opportunity.

My not solve the problem but makes me feel good. Si

In reply to jockster:
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It'll probably be far a far more effective tactic if you do exactly the same to all cars without badges in disabled spaces, rather than just ones you appear have a massive chip on your shoulder about.

Be fair, and get them all, don't just give in to prejudice.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

Technically my other half is disabled (motorbike accident a few years ago) but refuses to apply for a blue badge because he doesn't feel he needs it. Makes us chuckle when we're trying to find a spot and the only empty spaces are marked for disabled use.