UKC

The lockdown sceptics have very recently put together a well argued piece (based on some pretty dubious sources in places) covering their main issues with covid response and seems to me could be very compelling to the layman.

https://lockdownsceptics.org/covid-19-just-the-facts/

It is very interesting to see a complete absence of any discussion around PCR testing and some interesting points around masks. I have no idea where the invermectin fixation comes from.

Anyway, why release this now?

Furthermore, does https://www.covidfaq.co/ need to step up it's game (the site is very rarely updated, is it even visited?) or does it not matter anymore as the UK rolls towards 21st June and Boris leads the final charge to glorious freedom?

No.

It depends on how things pan out, probably.

It's not well argued - it's a lot of old nonsense that's been nicely formatted. It contains a number of logical fallacies, and I don't see them demonstrating how the current situation in, say , India, supports there arguments (basically nothing works except stiff upper lip and cat dewormer)

To Stichtplate. Which particular cause do you think these people will 'bless' with their evidence based science next?

Yes. And you don’t have to look too far through the site to reach the “donate” page:

If you enjoy reading and contributing to Lockdown Scepticsplease donate securely via this page so we can devote the necessary time to writing the daily update, publishing original articles, moderating the comments, adding the links, running the forums and more.

One-off donations are fantastic, regular donations even more appreciated.
 

minimum suggested amount is £13.33, with a prompt to consider making it monthly (“BBC license fee, 1 month” - I admire their dedication to pushing their target audience’s buttons...)

so- just a Trumpian exercise in bilking their followers...?

I don't think so - the various pop-up UK limited liability companies behind the various anti-lockdown protests all had donate pages as well.  They don't need the money - they're almost certainly being bankrolled by the same national and foreign vested interests as are behind a lot of other things.

So, why have a "Donate" button?  Because it cements the commitment to the cause of the people who they've hoodwinked in to believing their lies and misrepresentations; make them think they're the enlightened few fighting the good fight and sticking it to the man.  Nothing like having spent some cash to convince someone to double down on the cause and not admit they were mistaken, upping the ante and all that.  

Which - if correct - is really quite grubby.  

Trump was incredible how he mugged people. To refund people who he tricked into donations they used stop the steak to generate more money. It was very devious and highly unethical but supposedly legal robbery of his fan base without them realizing it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/04/03/us/politics/trump-d...

Might be worth you producing a summary of a rebuttal for each point they make - I've seen the lockdownsceptics.org website used a few times on social media as a reference and it would be nice to have a considered piece to lob back at them.

I am neither a Covid skeptic nor a lockdown skeptic - but I'm unhappy your post jumbles the two. Since you need different arguments to counter them, you should distinguish between the two.

I spent about 6 months of 2020 trawling through a fair amount of denier crap on the internet. My interest was sparked partly due to some of the stuff friends and friends of friends were posting on social media and partly due to curiosity fired by sheer incredulity at some of the choices the government were making. 

There were a many different motivations on display that could be broadly categorised:

-a lot of people objecting to having their lives and livelihoods curtailed were grasping any reason to object to restrictions. These people mainly seemed to be driven by selfish self interest.

-a smaller cohort seemed to believe every conspiracy out there. An incredible amount of crossover between far right batshit bullshit (holocaust denial, protocols of the elders, Jewish bankers etc), climate change denial, 5G, New World Order, pizza gate, intergalactic shapeshifting paedo lizard overlords (seriously), etc, etc... this lot were the most heavily invested and seemed to spend half their lives posting and reposting this shit. These people (judging by gullibility, lack of logic, spelling and profiles) were mainly a bit thick, a bit sad, a bit mad but mostly very disappointed by how their lives had turned out and in desperate search for someone to blame. Many of this cohort seem to have disappeared since Qanon imploded under the weight of its own lies.

-Then there's the puppet masters and their paid shills. These are the truly scary f*ckers and they seem to come from two places: external actors (Russia/ China?) who just want to sow discord and reduce trust in Western democratic systems. Internal actors who hope that the sheer volume of ridiculous conspiracies out there will help mask their own crap, whether that be billions syphoned off from the pandemic response into their mates pockets or simply to help camouflage mundane old gross incompetence.

So to answer your question: "Which particular cause do you think these people will 'bless' with their evidence based science next?"

Could be anything. I really don't think the cause matters one bit cos the real issue is the motivation.

I think being able to switch on and switch off a certain eye for one's own wellbeing and facade may be an asset in business life (a much loved relative grew their own company, and sold it to retire), but Trump takes the biscuit, he's got no ethical core either.

Yeah the guy has no core beliefs at all apart from his own self interest. He could have ran for either party and spun a similar message. 

The GOP are in a mess right now but will do well in the upcoming midterms. But Trump's favorability ratings are still poor.

Good summary.  I hope you have plans for your findings.

One thing I'd add - your third group, those under their puppet masters, the material they push out through social media and in-person channels I think goes on to significantly justify the stance of the first group you mention (selfish self interest) and to further the detachment from reality of your second group (broad spectrum conspiracy theorists).  The first two groups may not be working for the third, but they end up singing from the same hymn sheet.

Take the third group away and you take fuel off the other two fires.

Cheers

Mostly I’ve just been telling the dog. She’s the only one who listens to me

It is kind of amusing if people think moon landings were faked but when public health is at risk, conspiracy theories take on altogether more seriousness. Do people seem more willing to embrace such theories than in the past? Are they just like flat earthers of the past? What will the gullible latch on to next?

She looks pretty sceptical, too...

Yeah?

Does she have a boyfriend? Asking for a friend.

ooo! handsome  lad.

A friend's sister wrote an article recently (she specialises in neuroscience), and apparently the stress and anxiety of recent times, paranoia and a belief in conspiracy theories are interlinked. 

I don't suppose a content person is going to believe that there's a sinister plot by people out to control us, but I wouldn't have made the link myself.

LockdownSceptics is run by Toby Young, Tory Covid-denying nut-job. Don't bother. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toby_Young

Yep, my aquaintance who went down the Qanon hole fits the bill precisely - split up with GF, left a long term job, fell down the rabbit hole.

Perfectly plausible.

The first chap who cut my hair post lockdown said he was a Covid sceptic . When I pressed him on the matter he said he’d been sitting at home for the last 5 months with no money coming in. The only thing to distract (apart from pornography which he was perfectly happy to tell me about) was researching Covid. His “research” clearly took him to a host of anti-vaccine websites and a bunch of nonsense.

I didn’t challenge him on it of course. He could have messed up my hair!

Back to the broader point, of course Covid sceptics don’t matter. At this point the modelling should be able to capture the behaviour of these individuals so that the government can act accordingly.